Last edited by 9Marksfan; May 14th 2009 at 09:43 PM. Reason: tidying up close quotes
Romans 9:1-5 ( KJV )
I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
It was God's desire that all of the Jews be adopted, however, that did not happen.
Im still confused
I just dont understand the Bible
1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(compare with Acts 19:1-6)
The we being the Jews and the ye being the Gentiles. (Eph. 2:11-19)
The concept of predestination is very scary to most people. But the Apostles raise the issue in order to be encouraging to us. Simply put, knowing that our ultimate outcome is in God's loving hands we are free to make mistakes along the way as we struggle to live to please him.
Free will? Where in Scripture does it say fallen man's will is 'free'? Rather it says things like he is a slave to satan and his flesh and the principalities and powers of this world. Fallen man is free to choose if that is what you mean but he will always choose death apart from God's grace. God had to 'interfere' otherwise man's ruin would be total. Question, when you pray for God to do such and such for someone, aren't you asking God to intefere?
♪ Each day may Christ become clearer, His Cross dearer, Our Hope nearer. ♫
Having said that, there is also areas in which He chooses individuals from the start, as in the case of the Apostle Paul....
'I Can Only Imagine'
Bless the Beasts and the Children:
On cautionary note:
Originally Posted by ProjectPeter
"Unto you therefore which believe, He is precious" (1 Peter 2:7)
Check out my blog @ http://zab-thehungrysoul.blogspot.com/
Myself having just posted in the thread inquiring of CS Lewis, then reading your post, see this as related to a question that the original poster of that thread asked within that thread. The question of "adopted sons". Which is also your question from Ephesians. And this is good, in that we all should have the mind of Christ, knowing what God is about with us.
This very verse from Ephesians, using the word "predestined" has clearly stated God's intent from the beginning, even before the fall.
Everything comes from God, and everything should be drawn back to Him. God's original intent for the Incarnation was not redemption from the fall but adoption as sons of God (v5), that is deification/theosis/glorification (depending on your theological terminology).
For when God contemplated creating the world, He planned on bringing it into union with Himself through the Incarnation of His Son, that is, through the Son's union with human nature. That is why St Athanasius can say, "God became man that man might become god."
Peace be with you,
I am a Christian man in the Devil's land, spreading the gospel man to man.
Have you laid your burdens down?
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