Believing Jews?

[Studyin'2Show]

I think anyone, Jew or Gentile, holding on to the OT is denying Jesus is the Christ. The bottom line is that Jesus did it all. He is the complete salvation for Jew & Gentile. We are new creations in him.
I know people who have a passion for the OT principals & claim an understanding of Christ. They may very well but theses same people spend 90% of their time defending the OT & 10% defending Jesus. I would say thats not having a relationship with Jesus.

Messiah spent 100% of His time defending the OT. Goodness, friend, it is that which speaks of Him! Maybe you see it as 90/10 because you also are a believer so when they are interacting with you that's what comes up. In my REAL life and ministry I rarely if ever have to defend the fact that I keep Sabbath and the feasts of the LORD. It is only in this format (amongst other believers) where that comes up. In my witness to unbelievers I have yet to have it be an issue. And 100% of my effort is in leading them (the unbeliever) to Yeshua our Messiah! Btw, how in the world do you think you can judge your brother's relationship? I will be judged by my Lord and Him only.

God Bless!
Denise

[ZAB]

I don't think we are all on the same page. I think we may be confusing religious rites and rituals with national cultural heritage. I realize this may be a thin line (especially for the Jews), but they are different. No one is attacking anybody's ancestry or national pride.

Jewish culture is a beautiful thing, and should be honored just like every other culture on the earth. The issue is when and if some "Messianic Jews" rely on this heritage (feast days, kosher laws, etc) to feel better or more "accepted in the Beloved" (Eph 1:6), then that is error. The original question sought to answer if this is why some retain their name as "Jew".

The original post asked the question: "Why are not believing Jews called Christians?" Is it simply because they are Jewish? If that were the case, then would Christians in Canada be called "believing Canadians"?

[embankmentlb]

Btw, how in the world do you think you can judge your brother's relationship? I will be judged by my Lord and Him only.

God Bless!
Denise

Like i said, They may know Christ. I am not judging anyone, only observing.

[BHS]

I don't think we are all on the same page. I think we may be confusing religious rites and rituals with national cultural heritage. I realize this may be a thin line (especially for the Jews), but they are different. No one is attacking anybody's ancestry or national pride.

Jewish culture is a beautiful thing, and should be honored just like every other culture on the earth. The issue is when and if some "Messianic Jews" rely on this heritage (feast days, kosher laws, etc) to feel better or more "accepted in the Beloved" (Eph 1:6), then that is error. The original question sought to answer if this is why some retain their name as "Jew".

The original post asked the question: "Why are not believing Jews called Christians?" Is it simply because they are Jewish? If that were the case, then would Christians in Canada be called "believing Canadians"?

There is a very simple explanation to your questions. Most Christians and as it seems the ones in this thread, do not understand the why of the messianic congregations and why messianics do what they do. Please do not say the messianics do this or that because ... if you do not really understand. This is the very reason that Christians have not been able to lead Jewish people to their Messiah -- because they do not understand them and the very reason why there are messianic congregations. The messianic Jew has a far better way of relating to their own Jewish people than does the average Christian and are more able to lead them to their Messiah at the appropriate time.

It is not true that they have to do this or that. My suggestion is that you let them do what they do for their own reasons and do not try to second guess their motives.

Blessings,
BHS

[Studyin'2Show]

The original post asked the question: "Why are not believing Jews called Christians?" Is it simply because they are Jewish? If that were the case, then would Christians in Canada be called "believing Canadians"?

I believe the majority of Messianic believers have no problem calling themselves or being called Christians. When translating they actually mean the same thing. Christ is the Greek translation of Messiah. I do know of one Messianic believer from Israel who is an infrequent poster on this board who had a real issue with the word 'Christian'. He is a grandfather in his 60s and has just recently in the past few years come to know Yeshua as Messiah. The word Christian had always meant to him all his life, those that persecute Jews so he had a very difficult time accepting the label. He preferred Messianic or believing Jew. That, however, is a rare case.

Me personally, I am not Jewish nor do I attempt to be culturally Jewish. I don't mind though being called Messianic, but mainly because people understand better what I believe and how I walk in Messiah. One of the interesting things I have seen in recent years is lots of Jews coming to know Yeshua as Messiah. Paul spoke about 'the fullness of the Gentiles' coming in and hinted at the fullness of the Jews.

Romans 11:11-12
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

I believe we are seeing the beginnings of this time, the fullness of the Jews. So, if their fall was riches and their failure riches to us all, how much more their fullness? I rejoice as I see more and more coming to know Messiah each day. No more or less than I rejoice for the soul of a Gentile but I believe as we see the Jews coming in greater numbers it is fulfilling prophecy, so it's like seeing a signpost on the highway that tells you you're almost to your destination. I hope this has done a better job of addressing the question of the OP.

God Bless!
Denise

[John146]

If that makes you feel closer to Jesus, then do what you need to do. I am mostly referring to Romans 2 hypocrisy. I am also referring to Gentiles trying to "become Jewish" in rites and rituals for religion's sake. You may not use a prayer shawl for this reason, but some indeed do. This phenomenon is weird and error, I believe.

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God" (Rom 2:28-29).

That passage is what really matters. We are all Jews inwardly because we have been circumcised of the heart, in the spirit with the circumcision of Christ.

Col 2
9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

[ZAB]

There is a very simple explanation to your questions. Most Christians and as it seems the ones in this thread, do not understand the why of the messianic congregations and why messianics do what they do. Please do not say the messianics do this or that because ... if you do not really understand. This is the very reason that Christians have not been able to lead Jewish people to their Messiah -- because they do not understand them and the very reason why there are messianic congregations. The messianic Jew has a far better way of relating to their own Jewish people than does the average Christian and are more able to lead them to their Messiah at the appropriate time.

It is not true that they have to do this or that. My suggestion is that you let them do what they do for their own reasons and do not try to second guess their motives.

Blessings,
BHS

We're not trying to undermine sincere believer's motives. The purpose of this thread is to understand the "reasons" you refer to. All anyone has said in defense is (a) Jesus was Jewish, (b) there is a distinction between Jews and Gentiles that is sought to be lived out, or (c) practicing internal truths externally allows me to feel "closer" to God.
So, do you have a reason why "Messianic believers" are not called "Christians".
Thanks for your input

[ZAB]

I believe the majority of Messianic believers have no problem calling themselves or being called Christians. When translating they actually mean the same thing. Christ is the Greek translation of Messiah. I do know of one Messianic believer from Israel who is an infrequent poster on this board who had a real issue with the word 'Christian'. He is a grandfather in his 60s and has just recently in the past few years come to know Yeshua as Messiah. The word Christian had always meant to him all his life, those that persecute Jews so he had a very difficult time accepting the label. He preferred Messianic or believing Jew. That, however, is a rare case.

Me personally, I am not Jewish nor do I attempt to be culturally Jewish. I don't mind though being called Messianic, but mainly because people understand better what I believe and how I walk in Messiah. One of the interesting thing I have seen in recent years is lots of Jews coming to know Yeshua as Messiah. Paul spoke about 'the fullness of the Gentiles' coming in and hinted at the fullness of the Jews.

Romans 11:11-12
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

I believe we are seeing the beginnings of this time, the fullness of the Jews. So, if their fall was riches and their failure riches to us all, how much more their fullness? I rejoice as I see more and more coming to know Messiah each day. No more or less than I rejoice for the sole of a Gentile but I believe as we see the Jews coming in greater numbers it is fulfilling prophecy, so it's like seeing a signpost on the highway that tells you you're almost to your destination. I hope this has done a better job of address the question of the OP.

God Bless!
Denise

Thankyou, Denise. Finally someone answered my question .
And by the way, I don't blame that elderly gentlemen one bit! It would be difficult to join a "group" who seemingly opressed your culture for 2000 years!
So, does anyone see any other reason why some would stray from being called "Christian"?

[Ta-An]

So, do you have a reason why "Messianic believers" are not called "Christians".

Because most Jews understand the term "Christian" to mean belonging to the Roman Catholic faith

[ZAB]

Because most Jews understand the term "Christian" to mean belonging to the Roman Catholic faith

Wow, I wasn't aware of that!

[Ta-An]

Wow, I wasn't aware of that!

That is my experience... whenever I have spoken to some Jewish folk, and they learn that I am not of Jewish belief but Christian, they all have assumed that I am RC

[Lynne]

The original post asked the question: "Why are not believing Jews called Christians?" Is it simply because they are Jewish? If that were the case, then would Christians in Canada be called "believing Canadians"?

This is just a guess, but maybe because Romans 9:27-28,

27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:
"Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea,
only the remnant will be saved.
28 For the Lord will carry out
his sentence on earth with speed and finality"

does not read "Isaiah cries out concerning Canada: ..."

The issue for me is understanding the meaning, implications, and message of the concept of a preserved remnant in God's plans.

[ZAB]

This is just a guess, but maybe because Romans 9:27-28,

27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:
"Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea,
only the remnant will be saved.
28 For the Lord will carry out
his sentence on earth with speed and finality"

does not read "Isaiah cries out concerning Canada: ..."

The issue for me is understanding the meaning, implications, and message of the concept of a preserved remnant in God's plans.

haha, I laughed out loud when I read:
does not read "Isaiah cries out concerning Canada: ..."

You are right. Canadians were not in God's plan to bring forth the Messiah, Jews were. The Bible still only refers to one name however (see first post). That name is "Christian". But as one poster pointed out, they basically mean the same thing. To be called a "Messianic Jew", for the most part, is simply a means of holding onto one's heritage. I see no harm in that, of course. As long as it's from an unbiased point of view, that is, a point of view that recognizes the ONE new man, not two.

[Toymom]

Because most Jews understand the term "Christian" to mean belonging to the Roman Catholic faith

Wow, I wasn't aware of that!

I was not aware of that either and I have been Jewish my whole life.
I really have never heard anything like that.

I am also now a born again Christian and I refer to myself as such if people ask me what religion I am. I do not usually refer to myself as a Messianic Jew because that term is used by the Messianic Jewish religion which has it's own rules and reguations and requirements and while by definition it would seem that as a Jew who believes that Jesus is the Messiah, I would be considered a Messianic Jew - I don't meet with a MJ group nor do I probably fit all of their requirements and rules.

As far as why I call myself a Jew - it is because that is what I am.
Even if I no longer practice the Jewish religion, I am still a Jew. It is my genetic race and the culture that I was raised in.
It is not a matter of pride - it is just what I am and what God made me.
In fact, for years I did not value my Jewish heritage because I did not come to know the Lord in the Jewish religion, so I felt it was worthless - Paul counted it all as dung you know.
But, I have come to peace with my Jewish heritage and realize that is what God made me and He certainly had His reasons for doing so.
It actually can be a good witnessing tool to mention that I was raised Jewish and am now a Christian because then people want to know why and it opens up a way to share the gospel.

[Studyin'2Show]

Thanks for the awesome testimony, Toymom. Do you find that you are able to witness more or less to Jews or Gentiles? I know there are many Jews who, like the believer from Israel, see Christian as a term for those who persecute Jews. I was just wondering what your experience has been with other non-believing Jews.

God Bless!
Denise