Believing Jews?

[ZAB]

I am also now a born again Christian and I refer to myself as such if people ask me what religion I am. I do not usually refer to myself as a Messianic Jew because that term is used by the Messianic Jewish religion which has it's own rules and reguations and requirements and while by definition it would seem that as a Jew who believes that Jesus is the Messiah, I would be considered a Messianic Jew - I don't meet with a MJ group nor do I probably fit all of their requirements and rules.

Hi Toymom, thanks for joining our discussion .
Do you mind sharing what some of these "rules and regualtions and requirements" are?

Bless you.

[Toymom]

Thanks for the awesome testimony, Toymom. Do you find that you are able to witness more or less to Jews or Gentiles? I know there are many Jews who, like the believer from Israel, see Christian as a term for those who persecute Jews. I was just wondering what your experience has been with other non-believing Jews.

God Bless!
Denise

I do witness more to gentiles than to Jews.
I sometimes have the opportunity to witness to other Jews, but far less than to gentiles.
For some reason gentiles find it fascinating to find a Jew who is now a born again Christian and they want to hear about it.
Jews, on the other hand, often find it sad or wrong that a Jew has become a Christian.
Before I became a born again Christian, I had some very bad experiences with well meaning Christians who attempted to "convert" me by telling me I would go to hell if I did not become a Christian - what a loving and kind way to gain someone - NOT - and others who were in other ways rather "off" in their attempts to share the gospel.
I try not to be like that.
I try to pray and follow the Lord's leading in sharing Him with others.
The best thing is to pray for someone and to follow the Lord's leading when you share Christ with them.

[Toymom]

Hi Toymom, thanks for joining our discussion .
Do you mind sharing what some of these "rules and regualtions and requirements" are?

Bless you.

Sure - here is what I found on one MJ congregation website:

Messianic Jewish followers of Jesus tenderly use His Hebrew name -- Yeshua (which means "salvation") -- and are committed to preserving their Jewish identity, believing it to be perfectly compatible with their newfound faith. They celebrate the Jewish feasts, meet on the Sabbath, teach from the Torah, celebrate Bar Mitzvahs and engage in other Jewish customs. Messianic synagogues are formed by Jewish and Gentile members who worship together and who recognize the Messiahship of Yeshua and the Jewish foundation of His message.

I grew up in Reform Judaism and it sounds like the MJ religion tries to be more like the Orthodox Jewish religion.
I don't use the term Yeshua - never even heard of it until recently and I do not celebrate the Jewish feasts (did as a kid, don't chose to anymore nor do I feel it is necessary or right for me to do so), or meet on the Sabbath only.
I do have a home group meeting on Friday nights, but it is not because it is the Sabbath, but because the kids don't have school the next day.
My children won't have bar or bat mitzvahs, but they have been to some of their cousins' bar mitzvahs and will go to more for their other cousins who are being raised in the Jewish religion. I do respect my Jewish identity and heritage and wish to share it with my children. I am trying to find ways to do that which will work for our family. I do teach my children from the Torah (which is the first 5 books of the Old Testament) and from the rest of the Bible as well.

[Emanate]

"... the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." (Acts 11:26)

Good point, Christian was a foreign word until gentiles became believers.

[Emanate]

That passage is what really matters. We are all Jews inwardly because we have been circumcised of the heart, in the spirit with the circumcision of Christ.

Col 2
9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Way off. The Romans passage is directed to a Jewish audience. The verse you quoted to Gentiles, and the word "Jew" is absent. Gentiles do not become Jews in any way, and specifically not spiritually. There is no need. There is neither Jew nor Greek in Messiah.

[BHS]

Alan,

The two reasons given as to why Jews may not like to call themselves Christians are the most common. Another is that many Jews were raised in homes with their parents very adamantly opposed to them ever going to church. It would be like parents telling their children who are brought up in a protestant home to never go to a Catholic church, only even more traumatic. To them there was hardly anything worse. But attached to the idea of a Jew becoming a Christian is Jewish thought that becoming a Christian, not only meant they had given up Judaism, but that they had denied their heritage of being a Jew.

It is difficult for us to understand Jewish mindset if we cannot grasp the identity they have in being a Jew. It is who they are and who they always will be. Because of this mindset, it does not seem right to them to worship on the first day of the week, when God has always met with them on the Sabbath. And they see little in the church that reminds them of their heritage.

Most do not know this little known fact -- that Reformed and Conservative Judaism was developed for the sole purpose of destroying orthodoxy and it is the orthodox Jews who are most likely to recognize Jesus as their Messiah, even as much as some orthodox Jews are known for hating Christians. This is why you find some Reformed Synagogues that meet on Sunday rather than Saturday and why some reformed Jews so readily embrace Christians as their brother, because "we are one", believing in universalism at least to some extent. Yet the other side to that is that even some messianics do not easily embrace Christians fondly, because of their Jewish identity and heritage. There may still be a reluctance because of suspicion that has been inbred.

Right or wrong, that is just how it is. Should we try to change that? I think it would be better left up to God.

God bless,
BHS

[crossnote]

I think anyone, Jew or Gentile, holding on to the OT is denying Jesus is the Christ. The bottom line is that Jesus did it all. He is the complete salvation for Jew & Gentile. We are new creations in him.
I know people who have a passion for the OT principals & claim an understanding of Christ. They may very well but theses same people spend 90% of their time defending the OT & 10% defending Jesus. I would say thats not having a relationship with Jesus.

Why pit the Ot against Jesus. The OT speaks of Jesus as well.

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
(Luk 24:25-27)
And is not the NT full of OT references to the Messiah?

[warrenoff]

read Gal 3;28 or 29,AND ROM4;11'12, he was a racially father to the jews(circumsied and to then to the Gentilesspiritually uncircumised , in the being in Gen read there gen 11:38 tand chapt 12,God promised him the i heritiance in gen 17;10,abram was not circumsied untill gen 17;10 ,then God told him to and then to all that was to follow,thats how i understand roman 4;11;12pertaining to him being a jew once he at his age got circumsied by being obedient to God and receiving God coveant for abram and his new nation that God was making thru himmakes him A JEW so what i wrote in the beginning show us ,let me know if i missed some thing or close i want to help and get this argument clear for this bro or sis in the Lord clear to try to answer the Q GOD BLESS.

[BHS]

I am one who spends a great deal of my time "defending the OT" because there are too few Christians who do. God initially revealed Himself in the "OT" and I believe that we do not know Him as fully as we would otherwise if we simply study the "NT".

Blessings,
BHS

[ZAB]

I am one who spends a great deal of my time "defending the OT" because there are too few Christians who do. God initially revealed Himself in the "OT" and I believe that we do not know Him as fully as we would otherwise if we simply study the "NT".

Blessings,
BHS

In the Old is the New concealed; in the New is the Old revealed.
In the Old is the New contained; in the New is the Old explained.

[John146]

Way off. The Romans passage is directed to a Jewish audience. The verse you quoted to Gentiles, and the word "Jew" is absent. Gentiles do not become Jews in any way, and specifically not spiritually. There is no need. There is neither Jew nor Greek in Messiah.

Sorry, friend, but I believe you are way off. Are not all believers circumcised of the heart, in the spirit with the circumcision of Christ? Sure we are. And that is what Paul is speaking about in Romans 2:28-29. When it says there is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ it means there is neither outward Jew nor Greek in Christ. One's race or nationality has nothing to do with being in Christ. But all who are in Christ are Jews inwardly because we are all circumcised of the heart, in the spirit by the circumcision made without hands (Col 2:11).

[BHS]

In the Old is the New concealed; in the New is the Old revealed.
In the Old is the New contained; in the New is the Old explained.

This ditty is popular, but to me does not give the complete picture. To many Christians it leaves the impression that no one needs to really read or study the "OT", because whatever knowledge one needs can be obtained by reading the "NT". To me there is far more to the "OT" than is made evident in the "NT". Though the theme of the Bible is redemption through Jesus, there is far more to God's religion than what can be put into one sermon. There must be a reason God preserved all 66 books and not just 27.

Why is it that Christians do not seem to have a love for the "OT" as well as the "NT"??

Blessings,
BHS

[ZAB]

This ditty is popular, but to me does not give the complete picture. To many Christians it leaves the impression that no one needs to really read or study the "OT", because whatever knowledge one needs can be obtained by reading the "NT". To me there is far more to the "OT" than is made evident in the "NT". Though the theme of the Bible is redemption through Jesus, there is far more to God's religion than what can be put into one sermon. There must be a reason God preserved all 66 books and not just 27.

I agree:
1 Cor 10:11 "Now all these things [OT] happened unto them for ensamples [types]: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."

Why is it that Christians do not seem to have a love for the "OT" as well as the "NT"??

I would assume it has alot to do with the required amount of research and study to "uncover" the typical truths contained in the OT. Solomon said that "much study is a weariness to the flesh" (Eccl 12:12). He also said, "For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow" (Eccl 1:18).
Alot of the OT (especially concerning the tabernacle, Song of Solomon, etc) requires an understanding of Biblical imagery, Biblical numerics, types, shadows, etc etc. Some believers are content with the basics (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). As for me, I want to know Him! Paul prayed for the church concerning this matter:
Eph 1:17-18 "Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints..."

God bless

[Studyin'2Show]

I'm with you, z! I want to dig deep into every place where God has revealed Himself.

God Bless!
Denise

[embankmentlb]

This how i sum up the NT & OT in one short sentence.

OT , The failure of man to please God.
NT , God's love for man.