Senior Member
do so with a cheerful heart! If we're not doing the will of God I doubt seriously if we'd be tithing or even thinking about doing so.
What if? What if? One can ask that question all day, it's such an easy question to ask. What if we simply do what God desires us to do? and that mostly being not to question the acts of others?
guest
JWayne, I've seen people, know people, who use tithing like a heavenly slot machine.
If a person gives a can of food to a homeless person because he wants to help them and knows they are hungry that's one thing - if a person gives 10% of whatever money they have coming in to the church because they think God will dump monetary rewards on them, that's something else again.
I'm not saying anyone in this thread thinks that way but I will tell you I have seen it.
Does that help any?
V
The Bible states that we are to give thanks in everything. So when I am in a Church and the preacher preaches on tithes, I thank God that He has revealed to me that I am not bound to the tithing law.
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
The point is that we do not tithe according to Gods command, though we may be giving a tenth of what we earn unless we do as God has commanded we cannot please God.Originally Posted by JWayne
God is not being praised by disobedience.
Firstfruits
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
What about those that do not know the truth about tithing, do you believe the preacher would be happy to lose his means of gaining what he/she believes to be right according to the scriptures.
God bless you!
Firstfruits
Senior Member
Who are you to question my obedience to God, or why I do anything I do. As I have already made quite plain, what I do, I do for the glory of God.
If you think differently then that my friend is between you and God. Never could understand how anyone thinks that only certain parts of The Word no longer pertain to us today.
ALL GLORY TO GOD...REJOICE IN THE LORD ALWAYS, AND AGAIN I SAY REJOICE!
Senior Member
I agree with that fully, but that does not change, the why I tithe. I tithe to the glory of God. Some of the greatest rewards I ever received from God came from the time when I had absolutely nothing. As I have said, it's not all about money, which so many make it out to be. I do not have much money to give but I do have myself and the gifts that God gave me.
Child of the King
**
The "key" to all that you are speaking about is found in these scriptures about offerings that you have provided along with the ones about tithing. That is in "GIVING". If you tithe, God will bless what you give, not because it is a tithe of your increase, but because you GIVE. There have been times when God has directed me to GIVE to someone, to a minister, to a ministry, to a person I saw walking along the side of the road...
Luke 6:38 Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you." (NKJV)
For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you." (NKJV) . If you choose to use the tithe, then God will measure back to you accordingly. If you choose to use your conscience and a determination in prayer as to what to give, then God will measure back to you accordingly.
I have known many Christians who are under self-condemnation because they were unable to "tithe" according to what they have been taught is the "responsibility of a Christian".(emphasis mine) Christ has set us free from the law of sin and death in which same law, tithing was required. If one has a heart for God and seeks Him with his whole heart, mind, and soul, that one will "GIVE" to whomever God compels him from the heart, and will be rewarded, "good measure, pressed down and shaken together." If you are giving, whether in the form of a tithe or offering or whatever gift you would give in order to receive...then your motive to give is wrong to begin with.
Give and you will receive. That is a law of reciprocation as real and established as to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
May God Bless all Cheerful Givers.
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
Are you saying that you tithe as God commanded it to be done , not just by giving 10%?
Firstfruits
When a preacher tells his congregatioin that they must pay tithes to the Church, he is in err.
How do we handle this when the Bible tells us not to rebuke an elder, but rather entreat him?
There has to be a way to bring the preacher's attention from mammon and back to the Word of God.
I am enthralled with your response. Since the tithe God required in the Law was never money, can it truly be said one is tithing even if one is giving 10% of one's income?
Since the only one authorized to receive the tithe is one from the tribe of Levi, is the preacher who is not a Levite truly pleasing God when he calls for tithes?
Since the tithe was limited to the land of Israel and its inhabitants, does one in the United States or any other country outside of Israel please God when he teaches one from another country to tithe?
Where did the tithing specifics in the Word of God change so drastically as to include all people everywhere to all Churches everywhere? I cannot find it.
Senior Member
I give a cheerful tithe and a cheerful Spirit-led tithe. I tithe of my own free will for the good of God's work whether it be with money(of any amount) or with my time and gifts.
Instead of benefiting the needy, tithing is the main source of funds for building religious storehouse empires. The kingdom of heaven, which is the New Testament picture of the storehouse, has a limitless capacity, compared to the Old Testament storehouse, . The building in which we worship is not the Old Testament storehouse renewed for us in the New Testament. So, the new challenge today is to fill up the borderless gates of heaven.
As I was working in the church office a man stopped in and asked for some help to pay for his rent and groceries in order to take care of his children. I volunteered to help him. I took the man out, gave him some cash, and paid for some groceries. While on our trip around town, he began sharing his amazing testimony with me. He informed me that he stopped down the road to ask two other churches that had both built brand new, multi-million dollar facilities. Come to find out, he walked out without a cent. Expecting nothing from us, he showed up at the church facility I had been working at, which was run down, old, and smelly, but there God met his need. To make a long story short, I believe I was more blessed than he was by the end of the day.
I began to think of why the other churches could not give just a little bit from their tithe. Of course multi-million dollar facilities require much attention from our pocket. If they just asked themselves one question, “Was it worth it?” I do not boast, but through the power of God I was able to help this man and fellowship with him, when he needed it most. In the end the giver was blessed through his giving without tithing. Along with it, heaven’s unlimited storehouse is collecting untold riches through God’s ability in me. Yes, their pews might be filled, their tithe and offering plates might be full, but their storehouse is empty. And if I could write on their elaborate gold laden walls. . . MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN!
OK lets get it over with - we are not under law we are under grace. However -
(Gal 5:14 NIV) The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
(Rom 13:8-10 NIV) Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. {9} The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." {10} Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
(2 Cor 8:7-9 NIV) But just as you excel in everything--in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in complete earnestness and in your love for us --see that you also excel in this grace of giving. {8} I am not commanding you, but I want to test the sincerity of your love by comparing it with the earnestness of others. {9} For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.
The earth and everything in it belongs to the Lord. However in Genesis 1:29 the Lord gave Adam every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it as food. After the flood God gave Noah the right to eat anything that lives or moves, so that anything that Noah saved in the arc he had the right to eat (Gen 9:3). By the time we come to Lev 27:30 a tithe of everything belongs to the Lord (grain, fruit, animal - Lev 27:32 ).
Lev 27:30 "'A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD.
The main purpose of tithing in the Old Testament was to provide for the priestly tribe of Levi (Num 18:21) who had no land inheritance (Num 18:24). They were to perform their duties as priests and in return they were fed by the tithe, which was also itself tithed to the Lord (Num 18:26). In Deu 14:29 and 26:12 they gave the tithe to give it to the Levite, the alien, the fatherless and the widow (cf James 1:27). If people had to travel in order to offer the tithe then they could convert it to money (Deu 14:24 read 14:26). It is also interesting that there is at least one occasion mentioned in the Old Testament where the people who gave the tithe also ate it (Deu 14:21-28). Since the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 that Levitical system has gone entirely.
In the New Testament
Under the New Testament system each believer is a priest. However it is reasonable and, as we shall see, scriptural for those who are members of a local church to help support those who work full-time with church duties. It is also possible for those in leadership to support themselves like the apostle Paul who used tent making to support himself. However Paul also said:
(1 Cor 9:14 NIV) In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. (see Mat 10:10, Luke 10:8)
Although Paul did not use this right. Never the less he gives the principle that those who feed us spiritually should be fed physically.
(1 Cor 9:11-14 NIV) If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? {12} If others have this right of support from you, shouldn't we have it all the more? But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ. {13} Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? {14} In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.
We should note that the disciples Jesus sent out only got food and shelter, nothing more. Most people will recognize that it is better to have a leader who can devote himself full-time to the work. The tithe or ten percent is a good rule of thumb. John Wesley said that we should give ten percent save ten percent and do what we like with the rest. If we did this we would probably all be better off since it would encourage us to budget and instead of taking out expensive loans we could buy things out of our savings. Incidently if we lend to the Lords people we should not charge interest.
(Exo 22:25 NIV) "If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest.
In the New Testament Jesus says we should lend to our enemies without expecting anything back, we get our reward in heaven.
(Luke 6:35 NIV) But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.
Our attitude towards money indicates how much the gospel has changed us
Our attitude towards money is like a barometer to how close our walk with God actually is. When we become Christians we receive forgiveness of sins, acceptance by God, love from God. We are clearly on the receiving end of things but we also give to God ourselves albeit rather messed up in most cases. After that God sorts us out and we mature and learning to give is part of the maturing process. Until we have learned to give we have not fully understood the gospel. We love because God loves us (1 John 4:10), we forgive others because God has forgiven us (Col 3:13), we welcome others because God has welcomed us, we accept one another because God has accepted us (Rom 15:7) and we give because has given to us (Freely you have received, freely give Mat 10:8). In the world we struggle and strive for worldly possessions, however once we get saved we realize that a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions (Luke 12:15). One aspect of loving one another is to meet the needs of another. Love is practical not theoretical.
"a certain poor widow" (Mark and Luke)
When I get to reading 'in context' about the poor widow, who threw in two mites. I get the sense that Jesus (though He comended the poor widow) that He was very angry at what He saw.
He warns against the false religion of the scribes, and then He sees this poor widow putting in all of her living. She could not give more, and she could not give any less.
The disciples then point out, the temple, and how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts. Jesus goes on to say about the destruction of the temple, and not one stone left upon another.
Mark 12:38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
Mark 12:39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:
Mark 12:40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
Mark 12:41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
Mark 12:42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
Mark 12:43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
Mark 12:44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
Mark 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Luke 20:46 Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;
Luke 20:47 Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.
Luke 21:1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
Luke 21:2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
Luke 21:3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
Luke 21:4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
Luke 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
Luke 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Senior Member
Why would He commend her if He was angry? That would make Him two faced.When I get to reading 'in context' about the poor widow, who threw in two mites. I get the sense that Jesus (though He comended the poor widow) that He was very angry at what He saw.
Not at all.
He commended her, because she gave out of her poverty, but the rich gave out of their wealth.
Her heart was good, but He was angry at the false religious system of the scribes.
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