Christian dogmatism

[apothanein kerdos]

DJH,

I'm a bit confused on this thread as it has more twists and turns than a series plot line for the television show Heroes, so bear with me on a few questions:

1) Do you think the New Testament books are in error when discussing the deity and resurrection of Christ? If so, why? If not, why do you deny both?

2) What is your view of truth in application to religion?

3) What is the higher good (if there is an objective good): to love God or to love humanity?

[djh22]

Hi apothanein kerdos,
I didn't think MY belief is the point for the purpose of this thread.

As I said earlier, I can't understand your objections to a group of people from multiple faiths working together to better the community.

djh22.

[djh22]

The common good of whom? I'm sure it's an amazing and wonderful thing to see people living side by side 'peacefully' (after quieting all dissenters). However, how is this the common good if, for all the 'good' we've done here on earth, we end up eternally separated from God, all for the sake of not offending someone (especially when God will eventually renew creation regardless)? This isn't simply a Christian ideal, either. You still have to contend with the various conceptions of Hell in Islam and Sheol in Judaism. 'Believers' aren't working towards this 'common good' within their various faith communities. They are denying their faith, redefining their faith and ultimately becoming apostate to their faith.

I would like to work towards your 'common good', which means you not being eternally separated from God. As such, this means that while I respect what you believe in, I also believe it needs to change. It's rebellion.



It's not thinking with eternity in mind. If Christians, Jews and Muslims want to work together, side by side, that's fine, all the more power to them. However, if they 'ignore their differences' to the point of denying their convictions - especially the Christians - then that's a major problem. One they're going to have to answer for. If 'breaking down barriers' means denying the truth. Well, I wouldn't want part of that, regardless of the 'good' you think it's doing.



A happier, cleaner healthier community... That's headed for Hell. Regardless, and no offense, your community is not that clean knit. If the faith of these believers is strengthened by reading the religions texts of others religion... Well, I'd be hesitant to call them 'believers'. They're more like relativistic, post-modern Westerners. No power in anything anymore...

Why are they denying their faith just because they work alongside people from other faiths for the common good of the greater community ? they still have their own faiths.

Are you saying that if your neighbor was a Muslim or Jew and his house caught fire,you wouldn't help rescue them or rebuild their home afterwards ?
I hope not.
djh22.

[Athanasius]

Why are they denying their faith just because they work alongside people from other faiths for the common good of the greater community ? they still have their own faiths.

Are you saying that if your neighbor was a Muslim or Jew and his house caught fire,you wouldn't help rescue them or rebuild their home afterwards ?
I hope not.
djh22.

What I'm getting at is this attitude:

What I believe is between me and God, I will not try to change your beliefs so likewise I would hope you will respect my will to choose what I believe in.

Christians, Muslims, Jews... They can put aside their differences to 'work together'. However, when Christians start ignoring their mandate ('Great Commission'), that's a problem. When Muslims 'forget' that non-Muslims are all headed to Hell (Christians and Jews to a fiery hell), that's a problem. When Jews ignore the commandments of YHWH, that's a problem. That's what I'm referring to when I say 'denying their faith'. Eternal destinations cannot be ignored and that's what you're asking. From the different conceptions of eternity we see the different commandments of these three religions systems; they are inseparable.

[Slug1]

If that's what you believe then OK, it certainly isn't the view of my colleagues.

Cause based on all you've said... they don't worship Jesus so they won't accept His truth.

We don't believe in a God,we believe in The one and only God as did Jesus.

Jesus is God.

It most certainly is fruit to glory the Lord, the community is the proof.
You might not think it possible but with the exception of the Hindu and Sikh members we all believe in the same God.

Believing in and serving the Lord, "His" way are two different things. Believing in and having a relationship with God, through His Son, are much different.

I don't know but I'm sure if he were alive today (in the physical sense) he would be in there with his sleeves rolled up doing something.

No doubt, and He'd be leading them all to a relationship with God the Father. Which is what I've been saying you'd be doing this whole time if you'd listen.

I'm really sorry you think this way.

Only cause this is what will happen, to which I am sorry for those who would rather enjoy their peace for a temporary period of time.

I'm not the leader,just a volunteer like the rest,the group has been going since 2006 I joined 10 months ago,there is no leader as such,we take turns in Co-coordinating the work we do.As I said The Holy Spirit is with us and the community.

He's knocking all the time.

[djh22]

Christians, Muslims, Jews... They can put aside their differences to 'work together'. However, when Christians start ignoring their mandate ('Great Commission'), that's a problem. When Muslims 'forget' that non-Muslims are all headed to Hell (Christians and Jews to a fiery hell), that's a problem. When Jews ignore the commandments of YHWH, that's a problem. That's what I'm referring to when I say 'denying their faith'. Eternal destinations cannot be ignored and that's what you're asking. From the different conceptions of eternity we see the different commandments of these three religions systems; they are inseparable.

Firstly I'm not a Christian and as I said before each member has their own faith and it makes no difference to them just because they work alongside some one from a different faith.
No one is asked to change their beliefs,but they are asked to set aside any differences while working on their community projects,whether it's clearing a garden,decorating,shopping for the disabled ,or whatever.
I personally don't ask anything of anybody,It's not MY group ,I am not the the leader.

djh22

[djh22]

Cause based on all you've said... they don't worship Jesus so they won't accept His truth.

Jesus is God.

If that's what you believe then OK.

Believing in and serving the Lord, "His" way are two different things. Believing in and having a relationship with God, through His Son, are much different.

You can do both.

No doubt, and He'd be leading them all to a relationship with God the Father.

Absolutely.

Only cause this is what will happen, to which I am sorry for those who would rather enjoy their peace for a temporary period of time.

I will say it again - each member has their own faith,no one is trying to change that,it is a personal matter for them.

He's knocking all the time.

Yes he is and we are helping by breaking down old barriers.


I somehow feel that if you were a member of this group it would have come to and end a long time ago purely because of your dogmatism and all the good work we've achieved wouldn't have happened.

What would you have ? continuous wars across the world because of what might happen to us when we die ? or a world living together in peace and harmony now ?
You might not live in a war zone or famine area,there are millions that do and they are crying out to us now to work together for them.


djh22.

[apothanein kerdos]

Hi apothanein kerdos,
I didn't think MY belief is the point for the purpose of this thread.

As I said earlier, I can't understand your objections to a group of people from multiple faiths working together to better the community.

djh22.

Well your belief plays into my objections, so it's quite important.

[djh22]

Well your belief plays into my objections, so it's quite important.

My belief amongst the group of 150 volunteers is not important,I have no influence over them what so ever.
If you object to a multi faith group working together you have to based on your beliefs.

djh22.

[paidforinfull]

djh22:

Am I correct in thinking you are saying the following:

1. All people should work together for the common good;

2. It is possible for people of all faiths to work peacefully side by side in order to achieve this;

3. That it is possible for said people from different faiths to not want to share their beliefs (or at least become tempted to) with others in the group after a while;

4. That, for the sake of peace and unity, Christians (and others) should keep their opinions to themselves when a member/members in the group do things which obviously goes against that which one believes;

5. That Christians are dogmatic because they would rather work in a group with other Christians; believing their work will be more powerful since they submit it to God in prayer; follow God's will in the matter; are aided by the Holy Spirit and are willing to give God the glory for what they achieved.

If this is what you are saying, I would like to submit the following to you:

1. There would be nothing wrong (or unScriptural) if people in a community should get together to work on community projects per se;

2. Faith will at some point become an issue, though (history proves this, and one just has to study human nature to know this is so);

3. Christians would rather spend the time available to them working on projects where they are allowed to share the Gospel. Time is precious; most people have a limited amount of time in which to do volunteer work, and it is better to use one's time wisely and spend it where it would count the most for the advancement of the Kingdom of God (in this case one's church group or another Christian outreach/community project).


(Thank you for your kind remarks.)

To God be the glory.

God bless.

[djh22]

Thank you paidforinfull,

djh22:

Am I correct in thinking you are saying the following:

1. All people should work together for the common good;

2. It is possible for people of all faiths to work peacefully side by side in order to achieve this;

3. That it is possible for said people from different faiths to not want to share their beliefs (or at least become tempted to) with others in the group after a while;

Yes this is correct,we have proved this works.

4. That, for the sake of peace and unity, Christians (and others) should keep their opinions to themselves when a member/members in the group do things which obviously goes against that which one believes;

No,we come to an understanding to agree to disagree,then get on with the work in hand.

5. That Christians are dogmatic because they would rather work in a group with other Christians; believing their work will be more powerful since they submit it to God in prayer; follow God's will in the matter; are aided by the Holy Spirit and are willing to give God the glory for what they achieved.

Not all christians,certainly not the ones in our volunteer group,but it does seem to be the attitude of most members of this forum,some more than others.

If this is what you are saying, I would like to submit the following to you:

1. There would be nothing wrong (or unScriptural) if people in a community should get together to work on community projects per se;

2. Faith will at some point become an issue, though (history proves this, and one just has to study human nature to know this is so);

It hasn't been up to date and the group has been in existence since 2006,that's not saying there could be problems in the future but if there is they will be overcome.

3. Christians would rather spend the time available to them working on projects where they are allowed to share the Gospel. Time is precious; most people have a limited amount of time in which to do volunteer work, and it is better to use one's time wisely and spend it where it would count the most for the advancement of the Kingdom of God (in this case one's church group or another Christian outreach/community project).

Our group finds time to do both,that we we understand each others point of view.

(Thank you for your kind remarks.)

You're very welcome.

To God be the glory.

God bless.

Amen.

[Vhayes]

I have friends who are atheists, agnostics, Jewish and Muslim as well as Christians. We share - we talk - we work together to achieve various goals. I will say that I now know that all Muslims are not hate crazed brown people who want nothing more than my death. I now know that all Jews do not hate me because of the persecutions they have suffered over the eons. I now know all atheists are not all intellectuals. I now know that all agnostics are not ex-Catholics (that's supposed to be humor). The more we know about each other, the better. That doesn't mean I accept their version of God or the way they worship Him. It means they are God's creation just as much as I am God's creation and they deserve my respect if nothing else.
V

[Athanasius]

Firstly I'm not a Christian and as I said before each member has their own faith and it makes no difference to them just because they work alongside some one from a different faith.
No one is asked to change their beliefs,but they are asked to set aside any differences while working on their community projects,whether it's clearing a garden,decorating,shopping for the disabled ,or whatever.
I personally don't ask anything of anybody,It's not MY group ,I am not the the leader.

djh22

Absolutely, that's a good thing... It's only half of it though.

[apothanein kerdos]

My belief amongst the group of 150 volunteers is not important,I have no influence over them what so ever.
If you object to a multi faith group working together you have to based on your beliefs.

djh22.

It all comes down to your view of truth and how God functions with truth.

[Dani H]

I don't think anybody here is saying that people from differing faith backgrounds are unable to set differences aside and work together for the community, or within a corporate environment. Of course we are. I've worked with Muslims and Atheists and a host of people from all sorts of backgrounds. There is nothing unique about that, and it's totally doable.

What we are saying is that when it comes to man's eternal security with God, it's a one-way road, and the name of that road is Jesus.