Christmas trees....Heaven?

[J_sunshine4Christ]

These are theories you heard somewhere? I would ask people for the bible verses on it...to back it up. I was told once years ago that we would only live in Heaven for a certain amount of time then die for good! That was upsetting. They got this from the description of the New Heaven in the OT though..which has a different meaning. I didn't realize that though until many years later when I knew the bible much better. I have heard all sorts of odd things too...you just gotta ask on here or check the bible.. Sadly cults have gotten started because people didn't check their bibles first and just believed what they were told. So I am glad you are asking.

God bless

Oh wow...die for good? lol what's the point of salvation if we eventually die... Yeah I've never been one to swallow anything I'm told. I try not to be argumentative. But I know my Bible pretty well... anyways, Thanks sooo much! I appreciate the support!


p.s. I wasn't insinuating that you swallow anything!!!

[moonglow]

Oh wow...die for good? lol what's the point of salvation if we eventually die... Yeah I've never been one to swallow anything I'm told. I try not to be argumentative. But I know my Bible pretty well... anyways, Thanks sooo much! I appreciate the support!


p.s. I wasn't insinuating that you swallow anything!!!

Oh I know you weren't...this happened when I was very young and didn't know what to think about such a thing! People come up with some strange ideas sometimes...

[MarleVVLL]

This is a great question.

The problem with western thinking is that it was massively influenced by greek thinking. Therefore, we interpret the Scriptures through a 'greek' worldview, not a Hebrew one.

Heaven is a real and literal place - Rev 4 gives a great picture of it. Also, Rev 7 gives another glimpse.

Food for thought: No where in Scripture does it say, 'if you believe in Jesus, you'll live with Him in heaven forever' - haha! We interpet 'eternal life' for heaven, which is not biblical.

Instead, we are going to live in a City prepared by Him that will come down from God to this PLANET! Jesus will literally rule and reign from Jerusalem and that is our hope.

In other words, read and learn the OT. Salvation is knit to the OT promises through Jesus.

[Athanasius]

This is a great question.

The problem with western thinking is that it was massively influenced by greek thinking. Therefore, we interpret the Scriptures through a 'greek' worldview, not a Hebrew one.

Heaven is a real and literal place - Rev 4 gives a great picture of it. Also, Rev 7 gives another glimpse.

Food for thought: No where in Scripture does it say, 'if you believe in Jesus, you'll live with Him in heaven forever' - haha! We interpet 'eternal life' for heaven, which is not biblical.

Instead, we are going to live in a City prepared by Him that will come down from God to this PLANET! Jesus will literally rule and reign from Jerusalem and that is our hope.

In other words, read and learn the OT. Salvation is knit to the OT promises through Jesus.

Why not 'read and the learn the OT... and the NT,' as the NT is the logical working out of OT prophecies? OT is a bad naming convention, I don't know why we didn't just stick with Tanakh.

I don't believe there is really much of a difference between 'Western' and 'Greek' thinking, seems to me the two are one in the same. That doesn't necessarily mean we're interpreting Scripture through an entirely Greek world view, however. Not that I think there is inherently any problem with the Greek; after all, that's the New Testament for you. I think as well 'Heaven' is more properly interpreted as 'New Earth' and so it is proper for people to say we will live with Him (Jesus) in heaven forever.

[L'Ange]

Ok...first question. People have a lot of notions of heaven...where in the Bible does it describe anything about heaven? Besides how there will be no more tears and all of that wonderful stuff. Like...people talk about animals going to heaven(which I do NOT believe, however am open if there is valid evidence)...just anything. Where is it at???

Second Question...Are Christmas Trees really a Pagan tradition? And if so...is it wrong to have one? I'm not stressing about it...I'll pray about it ofcourse...but any insight would be greatly appreciated!! God Bless you!!!

I will just deal with the 2nd Q.: Well, we can know beyond doubt that there is nothing about a Christmas tree that has to do with the birth of Messiah. It seems a common perception among Biblical scholars, first of all, that Messiah was not born in the winter. The animals are not left out in the winter fields. The census probably would not have been done during the worst possible weather times. There is no story in the "New" Testament about any kind of decorated tree. In the "Old" Testament decorated trees, brought into the home, are condemned.

Studies of pagan literature show that the pagans did bring trees into their home and decorate them with balls - per my understanding representing the, uh, testicles of the god Tammuz - and with shiny strings representing his semen. (EEyuck!)

We are told in Scriptures not to do what the pagans do and say we are doing it for YHWH. Christmas trees are what the pagans did. Who are we doing it for? Well, I can't rightly think that there is any reason to believe we are doing it for Him.

Honestly, I don't think He likes reminders of pagan practices sort of, you know, in His face. Mho.

I got rid of all Christmas decorations some years ago - ditto Easter ones - and haven't really missed them. I have to admit though that I have an understanding family who is not bent out of shape by my not wanting such things. That's not always the case though.

In December I give Hannakah presents. Yahshua was seen going to the Temple for the Feast of Dedication, i.e. Hannakah. I figure, if HE celebrated it, I'm gonna celebrate it too! (I do not use a Menora with 8 lights, though, as I do not see this in Scriptures - only a Menora with 7 lights.)

[Mozza]

Ok...first question. People have a lot of notions of heaven...where in the Bible does it describe anything about heaven? Besides how there will be no more tears and all of that wonderful stuff. Like...people talk about animals going to heaven(which I do NOT believe, however am open if there is valid evidence)...just anything. Where is it at???

Second Question...Are Christmas Trees really a Pagan tradition? And if so...is it wrong to have one? I'm not stressing about it...I'll pray about it ofcourse...but any insight would be greatly appreciated!! God Bless you!!!

Hello J_ Sunshine,

I would like to share the restoration prophesies with you from the book of Isaiah. These were pictorial of the time when humans will again live in paradise. This is the 'new earth' spoken about by the Apostle Peter at 2 Peter 3:13, which says: "But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell."

The original paradise was on earth and a restoration of this was foreshadowed when the Jews returned to Jerusalem after their exile in Babylon.
Isaiah 11:6-9 says "And the wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a mere little boy will be leader over them. And the cow and the bear themselves will feed; together their young ones will lie down. And even the lion will eat straw just like the bull. And the sucking child will certainly play upon the hole of the cobra; and upon the light aperture of a poisonous snake will a weaned child actually put his own hand. They will not do any harm or cause any ruin in all my holy mountain; because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters are covering the very sea."
This was pointing forward to the time when the whole earth would be filled with knowledge of God.

Isaiah 35:5-7; "At that time the eyes of the blind ones will be opened, and the very ears of the deaf ones will be unstopped. At that time the lame one will climb up just as a stag does, and the tongue of the speechless one will cry out in gladness. For in the wilderness waters will have burst out, and torrents in the desert plain. And the heat-parched ground will have become as a reedy pool, and the thirsty ground as springs of water. In the abiding place of jackals, a resting-place for [them], there will be green grass with reeds and papyrus plants."
Both humans and the earth itself are spoken about here. It sounds wonderful.

Revelation 21:1-4 also gives us a glimpse into what we can expect.
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."

So nothing will spoil our enjoyment of paradise. There will be nothing to cause us pain or heartache. No more sickness old age or death. And because we will be reunited with our loved ones again in the resurrection, we will all live together as one happy family of humans, unitedly serving our God, with nothing to spoil the tranquility that we will then enjoy.
“Your dead ones will live....they will rise up. Awake and cry out joyfully, you residents in the dust! For your dew is as the dew of mallows, and the earth itself will let even those impotent in death drop in birth.” (Isaiah 26:19)

The promised land was also a shadow of the paradise to come. After their wandering in the wilderness for 40 years, the Israelites were finally led to their land of promise. A "land flowing with milk and honey".

Hope that creates some nice word pictures for you.

Cheers,

Mozza

[Psalms Fan]

The concept of the "logos" (as in "In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God) was a part of pagan Greek philosophy, yet John used that pagan concept to share the Gospel. It may have had pagan roots, but the gospel redeemed it, and it was used to show who Christ is.

I believe that the Christmas tree can be the same type of thing. It had a pagan origin, but look at the beauty of the truth that it proclaims: in the midst of winter (death), the tree is green (life) - life in the midst of death, which is exactly what the Gospel is. When we put lights on the tree, we are proclaiming that this life-in-the-midst-of-death is also a shining light in the midst of darkness.

In the midst of darkness we have light. In the midst of death we have life. THAT is what the tree ought to represent to us as Christians, regardless of its pagan origins and prior use.

The gospel has the power to transform lives as well as cultures. What may have been meant for evil can be turned around and be used for good.

In a similar way, even the egg at "easter" (I prefer passover, or pascha) can be a wonderful illustration of new life in the resurrection, even if the egg was originally used to represent pagan fertility rites. The bunny, however... I can't see a way for that to be redeemed.