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Thread: Satan bound in the pit?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by rom826 View Post
    Sorry, but I do not believe that if Jesus Christ were already "running the show", he would let any murderer of His own people to rule even for a second. He would put is own people in charge as He will one day in the future. If it were Jesus Christ who was the god of this present evil world, I do not believe he would make anybody like Stalin, Hitler, the president of Iran, the president of North Korea, Obama, etc rulers of their countries. I do not believe that Jesus is a schizo who enjoys seeing His own people persecuted and murdered. That situation is going to change at His second coming.
    I personally find this argument weak. Despite what many imagine, the nations continue to be deceived during the Premillennial millennial kingdom. Even with Satan’s binding, and just like the Amillennial view of the millennium, numerous Gentiles remain unchanged. This surely correlates with today. Despite the Gospel message being delivered to the nations and Satan being unseated in countless Gentile hearts throughout the world, he still has an army of adherents that have grown to such an overwhelming extent that they flood the millennium. Revelation 20 is not saying men and women won't individually be deceived during the millennium, but that the Gentiles (as a people) wouldn’t be deceived like before. John is speaking of a general deceiving of the Gentiles (ethnos), not that every single human being would be saved or subject the Christ’s reign. In short, even though Satan is bound in the millennium (Premil or Amil one) there is a gigantic number – as the sand of the sea – that are deceived, who Satan is able to use at the end. The Premil millennium is saturated in sin and rebellion, filled with the wicked and plagued by death even though Romans 8:19-23, 2 Peter 3:13 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 say that the time of Christ's Coming finally eliminates all this forever.

    Creation and the creature will see a final and complete deliverance from the current bondage of corruption. Paul locates this liberation for creation at the time when the saints experience "the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body." This conclusively proves that the glorification of the earth occurs simultaneously with the glorification of our bodies.
    God bless,

    WPM

  2. #47
    Despite what many imagine, the nations continue to be deceived during the Premillennial millennial kingdom.

    Not true. It clearly says that that satan is not able to deceive.

    John is speaking of a general deceiving of the Gentiles (ethnos), not that every single human being would be saved or subject the Christ’s reign.



    Not true again. All will be subject to Christ reign for the full 1000 years, until Jesus allows for satan to be let out of the pit so that he can begin to deceive the nations once again. This "short season" is when the weak among the believers are turned against Christ.


    In short, even though Satan is bound in the millennium (Premil or Amil one) there is a gigantic number – as the sand of the sea – that are deceived, who Satan is able to use at the end.
    [/quote]

    Not true again. They are not deceived pre satan being let out of the pit. They are deceived after He is let out.

    Wow. Can we stick to the scriptures and repeat them as they tell the events. .

    In Him
    Norma
    and BTW
    ethnos
    1) a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together
    a) a company, troop, swarm
    2) a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus
    a) the human family
    3) a tribe, nation, people group
    4) in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles
    5) Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians

  3. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by wpm View Post
    I personally find this argument weak. Despite what many imagine, the nations continue to be deceived during the Premillennial millennial kingdom.
    Nobody is decieved during the millenium. Satan is unable to decieve during this time period. It is after he is released that he is able to decieve once again.


    Revelation 20 is not saying men and women won't individually be deceived during the millennium, but that the Gentiles (as a people) wouldn’t be deceived like before.


    Revelation 20 says the devil will decieve the nations no more. It does not say "he will not be able to decieve like before. That is something you added to the text that is not there.

    The Premil millennium is saturated in sin and rebellion, filled with the wicked and plagued by death
    Just wondering where you got that idea from? There is no rebellion in the pre-mill millenium. That happens after Satan is released.

  4. #49
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    Not true. It clearly says that that satan is not able to deceive.

    Not true again. All will be subject to Christ reign for the full 1000 years, until Jesus allows for satan to be let out of the pit so that he can begin to deceive the nations once again. This "short season" is when the weak among the believers are turned against Christ.

    In short, even though Satan is bound in the millennium (Premil or Amil one) there is a gigantic number – as the sand of the sea – that are deceived, who Satan is able to use at the end.

    Not true again. They are not deceived pre satan being let out of the pit. They are deceived after He is let out.

    Wow. Can we stick to the scriptures and repeat them as they tell the events. .

    In Him
    Norma
    and BTW
    ethnos
    1) a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together
    a) a company, troop, swarm
    2) a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus
    a) the human family
    3) a tribe, nation, people group
    4) in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles
    5) Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians
    This millennial golden age you speak of ends in complete failure with this incredible uprising from the four corners of the earth as the sand of the sea. These millennial inhabitants are obviously pretenders. They go up to Jerusalem in feigned worship to the Lord for 1,000 years, then Satan suddenly appears and we have an en-masse rebellion. What does this doctrine say about Christ and His influence? What does this say of this millennial age that is saturated like ours with hypocrites and phonies? I certainly prefer the biblical new earth that is perfect and pristine, being purged of all death, sickness and wickedness.
    God bless,

    WPM

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Searcher1 View Post
    Of course the bottomless pit is in the spiritual realm and not a unending hole in the earth.
    Glad you agree but there are some really strange interpretations out there regarding what the bottomless pit/abyss is.

    Hmmm.. it says that this chain of God only prevents satan from doing one thing and that is....it stops him from deceiving the nations. Seems to me that that is satan's only job and he is still doing it. I know this because If the nations were not being deceived then they would not be blind to the gospel and would all believe.
    You have your definition of what deceiving the nations is about and I have shared mine. You don't seem willing to acknowledge that Jesus' work on the cross made a huge impact on the Gentile nations and on Satan's ability to deceive them and keep them almost entirely in spiritual darkness as he was able to do before Christ came, but not after.

    Maybe if you gave a little more thought to exactly what impact Christ's death and resurrection had on the world you might at least understand where I'm coming from even if you still don't agree. At this point I don't think you're even grasping my viewpoint. I understand yours fully (and disagree with it), but I hope I can help you understand my view as well, which would help make for better discussions. I spend half my time just explaining my view, it seems.

    And what restrains the unbelievers from responding to that gospel? satan.
    See, what I think you're not understanding is that before Christ came most people did not even hear the word of God because Satan had a hand in keeping them from hearing it. But since Christ came the gospel has gone out into the whole world. That is what I believe the deceiving of the nations relates to. Before Christ, the word of God had not gone out into the whole world and was relegated mainly to just Israel and Satan had a hand in that. After Christ came, Satan could not prevent the gospel from going out into the whole world by the power of the Holy Spirit, which has led to millions and millions of Gentiles being saved as opposed to very few before He came.

    We can bind satan temporarily by binding him in the name of Jesus, which allows people to hear and believe.

    but restained from deceiving the nations NO MORE. Nope. That has not happened yet.

    Hence he is not in the pit under chain or seal but is roaming about deceiving people.

    God bless
    Again, I don't believe it is saying he can't deceive at all. I know that's your view and you read Revelation very literally, but when you consider how the world was before and after Christ came and what Satan was able to do before compared to after then I believe that gives us a better understanding of exactly what "deceiving the nations" really means.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by rom826 View Post
    Nobody is decieved during the millenium. Satan is unable to decieve during this time period. It is after he is released that he is able to decieve once again.
    But it is our own hearts that deceive us. This millennial golden age is full of wicked men who are deceived by their refusal to be saved. That number being innumerable as the sand of the sea.

    Revelation 20 says the devil will decieve the nations no more. It does not say "he will not be able to decieve like before. That is something you added to the text that is not there.

    Just wondering where you got that idea from? There is no rebellion in the pre-mill millenium. That happens after Satan is released.
    But in Premil millennium the nations are deceived again, after 1,000 years! You suggest that the phrase "he should deceive the nations no more" means no more. But your the Premil millennium ends in the same chaos as the Amil one.
    God bless,

    WPM

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by wpm View Post
    'Bottomless pit' is an English interpretation of the Greek word abussou. It simply means abyss. It refers to the spiritual prison of spiritual beings. The demonic world is bound by chains until the judgment (as demonstrated in 2 Peter 2:4, Jude v6). This does not stop their movement but simply limits it. Satan’s hoards are bound as to their influence but this does not prevent movement. They must keep within heaven’s boundaries. They are like a fierce dog on a chain - he can move, growl and do great harm if you get close to him, but if you stay away from him he is totally limited to what he can do to you.
    Good post. I belieive that is exactly how it is meant to be understood. And like I said, it can't be overlooked that he is bound with "a great chain". That implies to me that he has a good deal of movement but is still restrained and, like you said, he can only go so far. He does not any longer have the full range of motion, so to speak, that he had before Christ came when a vast majority of the Gentiles were in spiritual darkness.

  8. #53
    These millennial inhabitants are obviously pretenders.


    That is your opinion and you are assuming a lot. It is not stated in the text at all. The text says that it isn't until satan is let out that the people are deceived. They must first be deceived before they fall away.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Searcher1 View Post

    That is your opinion and you are assuming a lot. It is not stated in the text at all. The text says that it isn't until satan is let out that the people are deceived. They must first be deceived before they fall away.
    If they weren't deceived they would follow Jesus. That is obvious. The fact they immediately follow Satan shows who their god is. To me the Premil millennium is filled as the sand of the sea with countless phonies. I want to say this as gracious as I can, but the whole thing looks like one incredible sham. Amils reject this picture they see the wicked as being totally destroyed as in Sodom and Noah's world (as per Jesus prediction).

    II Thessalonians 1:4-10, similarly says, “we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeingit is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire (1) taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;(2) When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”

    This passage recognises only two types of person. In fact, it carefully situates men in one of only two distinct categories, and conclusively proves that it is only those that know God and obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ that will survive the Second Coming. The rest are expressly destroyed. To know God is to be in an intimate relationship with Him through salvation. It is to enter into the joy and privileges of the kingdom. Jesus adds further elucidation on this in John 17:3, saying, this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” To know God, according to Christ, is to possess eternal life. Plainly, those that don’t have this eternal life do not know God. They are separated from Him by their own sinful nature.

    If we connect this together with John 3:16 we get an even greater perspective of what Scripture is really saying on this matter. It says, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life Essentially, to believe Him is to know Him. This is not in any way speaking of an intellectual head-knowledge but rather an intimate living spiritual relationship. This is indeed to enter into “life eternal.”
    God bless,

    WPM

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Searcher1 View Post
    Now you are touching on the reason for the 1000 years.

    you have show the progression when you say satan had a 999.9% advantage to deceive before the cross, but after the cross believers have the power in the Name of Jesus to bind satan for the sake of spreading of the gospel (Just to mention one reason).

    Well, in the thousand years Jesus is on earth, in the Temple of God, ruling over the earth, and satan is locked up where he can have NO influence over mankind. All mankind upon the earth will be 100% righteous, following only after Jesus. Man will have a chance to hold on to truth and not let it die. But as soon as satan is let out the nations begin to fall away in droves, falling under the spell of satan's temptations and deceptions. But some will not fall away, of course. They are in the camp of the Lord.
    This would mean that Satan could have a much bigger impact on the world in a short amount of time than Christ could while being on the earth in all His glory for a thousand years. That just doesn't compute with me.

    Now understand that I am not talking about the Bride here at all when I say mankind. I am only speaking of the mortals that believed after the see Him physically return in the clouds but as Jesus says, it is too late to be the bride, the door is closed.
    Too late to be the bride? Aren't all those who belong to Christ part of His bride?

    But Jesus will not refuse a person that is repenting and mourning over Him. These new believers will enter the mill as mortal.
    Anyone who believes at His coming wil be changed and have immortal bodies. I believe what you're saying here contradicts what Paul taught in 1 Cor 15:51-54.

  11. #56
    Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

    Megus
    halysis
    1) a chain, bond by which the body or any part of it (hands, feet) is bound

    Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

    sphragizō
    1) to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal
    a) for security: from Satan
    b) since things sealed up are concealed (as the contents of a letter), to hide, keep in silence, keep secret



  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by rom826 View Post
    Sorry, but I do not believe that if Jesus Christ were already "running the show", he would let any murderer of His own people to rule even for a second. He would put is own people in charge as He will one day in the future. If it were Jesus Christ who was the god of this present evil world, I do not believe he would make anybody like Stalin, Hitler, the president of Iran, the president of North Korea, Obama, etc rulers of their countries. I do not believe that Jesus is a schizo who enjoys seeing His own people persecuted and murdered. That situation is going to change at His second coming.
    How do you explain Satan's little season then? During that time there will be a number of people "as the sand of the sea" just like those you are describing despite the (supposed) presence of Christ in all His glory on the earth.

  13. #58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Searcher1
    Now you are touching on the reason for the 1000 years.

    you have show the progression when you say satan had a 999.9% advantage to deceive before the cross, but after the cross believers have the power in the Name of Jesus to bind satan for the sake of spreading of the gospel (Just to mention one reason).

    Well, in the thousand years Jesus is on earth, in the Temple of God, ruling over the earth, and satan is locked up where he can have NO influence over mankind. All mankind upon the earth will be 100% righteous, following only after Jesus. Man will have a chance to hold on to truth and not let it die. But as soon as satan is let out the nations begin to fall away in droves, falling under the spell of satan's temptations and deceptions. But some will not fall away, of course. They are in the camp of the Lord.


    This would mean that Satan could have a much bigger impact on the world in a short amount of time than Christ could while being on the earth in all His glory for a thousand years. That just doesn't compute with me.
    Sorry, that is just the way it is. Human's are more inclined toward evil than toward good.


    Quote:
    Now understand that I am not talking about the Bride here at all when I say mankind. I am only speaking of the mortals that believed after the see Him physically return in the clouds but as Jesus says, it is too late to be the bride, the door is closed.
    Too late to be the bride? Aren't all those who belong to Christ part of His bride?
    Yes, the Bride is taken to wed and there isn't going to be another Bride of Christ. At the resurrection of the dead in Christ and snatching up of the living IN CHRIST to meet Him in the air, then no more will be added. Those that come to believe after this, Specifically those that see Him who they peirced and mourned and repented, they will not be part of the Bride and will not rule with Christ as preists and kings during the Mill. Those new believers, that came to believe after the Bride met Jesus in the air, will enter the mill in a mortal state. New Believers? Yes. But they have missed the R/R of His Bride.

    In Him
    God bless

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Searcher1 View Post

    That is your opinion and you are assuming a lot. It is not stated in the text at all. The text says that it isn't until satan is let out that the people are deceived. They must first be deceived before they fall away.
    Why would so many be deceived if they were free from Satan's influence for a thousand years and had the incredible privilege of being on the earth at the same time as Jesus in all His glory? Why would Jesus being on the earth in all His glory for a thousand years have so little impact on the world?

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Searcher1 View Post
    Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

    Megus
    halysis
    1) a chain, bond by which the body or any part of it (hands, feet) is bound

    Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

    sphragizō
    1) to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal
    a) for security: from Satan
    b) since things sealed up are concealed (as the contents of a letter), to hide, keep in silence, keep secret

    Are you suggesting that me must of necessity place a literal meaning on these words? If so I disagree. They are often used in a spiritual sense.

    As Paul said in Ephesians 6:20, "I am an ambassador in bonds (halusis): that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak."

    The affictions of the righteous are likened to chains or bonds.

    Paul also said in 2 Timothy 1:16: "The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain (halusis)."

    I also have a seal (sphragizō) upon me, it certainly isn't physical but spiritual.

    Ephesians 1:13 confirms: "after that ye believed, ye were sealed (sphragizō) with that holy Spirit of promise."

    Also, Ephesians 4:30 declres: "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed (sphragizō) unto the day of redemption."
    God bless,

    WPM

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