Simply that "no ONE can FORCE you away from Jesus" --- nothing prohibiting a person voluntarily walking away because of unbelief. Remember, each of US is tempted when enticed and carried away by our own lust; then lust gives birth to sin, and sin brings DEATH --- do not be deceived beloved brethren. James1:14-16.
Originally Posted by Raybob
"Remember from where you have FALLEN" --- one who was never saved, has nowhere they can fall FROM.
Just doing deeds does not get one into heaven, only faith does. If any that did good deeds fell away,
Can we talk about this "obviously" thing? You are applying the Catch-22, and have not documented that in Scripture.
they obviously were simply 'Carnal' Christians, not real Christians to begin with.
Where is it "obvious" that anyone who falls, was never REALLY saved in the first place?
Most definitely. Look back two verses to verse 1. This speaks of spiritually dead people, not Christians living by the Holy Spirit, at all.
He says "remember what you received". Let's talk now about chapter 2:
And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
It says "REMEMBER from where you have FALLEN" --- do you really think he meant "you were never at a place where you could fall FROM, you were always fallen"? How could he have meant that?
It's a warning to "beloved brethren", not to be deceived.
James 1:14-16 speaks of how sin is developed from lust and tells us not to even go there.
Yes; but where were they? They were:
Hebrews 6:6-14 speaks of those following the spirit of error, not the spirit of truth.
1. "Enlightened" (photizo)
2. "Tasters" of the good word of God and the powers of the age to come
.....(using the same word "geuomai" as in Heb2:9, "Jesus TASTED death" --- does mean really participate!
3. Metochos-partners in the Holy Spirit (partners in Christ 3:14, partners in a heavenly calling 3:1)
4. They were repentant, but cannot be restored to repentance because of their willful sin
In no way can these people be cast of "never-were-saved". The participle "and FALLING away" --- one cannot fall from where one never was.
You are lifting one verse ("prooftexting") and ignoring the context. The entire letter of Hebrews is about "don't-forsake-salvation".
Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways
2:1-3, take care lest you drift away; we shall not escape if we neglect so great a salvation.
3:6 --- we are Christ's house IF we hold fast
3:8 --- do not harden your hearts as the Israelites did
3:10 --- the Israelites hardened their hearts and refused to follow God
3:12-13 --- take care lest you be hardened by deceitful sin to falling away from God
3:14 --- we are partners in Christ IF we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end
3:18-19 --- the Israelites did not enter their rest (Promised Land) because of disobedience and unbelief
4:11 --- do not FALL and fail to enter GOD'S rest by IMITATING Israel's disobedience and unbelief
4:1 --- do not fall short of God's grace
6:4-6 --- those who WERE saved but now consciously walk in sin, will not want to repent (identical to 10:26-29)
6:11-12 --- you need DILIGENCE so that you not imitate the sluggish, but imitate those who BY patience and faith inherit the promises
10:26-28 --- if WE continue sinning willfully after having received TRUE knowledge, Jesus' sacrifice no longer covers us
10:29 --- (then we will be) he who WAS sanctified by Jesus' blood, but scorns that blood & tramples Jesus & insults the Spirit
12:7-8 --- we HAVE BECOME partakers/partners (metochos!) in God's discipline (past!), but if we ARE WITHOUT (present!) then we are NOT (no longer!) sons but illegitimate
12:9 SHALL we not rather BE in submission to God's discipline AND LIVE?
12:15 --- do not allow bitterness to cause to to fall short of God's grace
12:25 --- much less shall WE escape who turn away from (God)!
13:9 --- Do not be CARRIED AWAY by strange teachings
That was mostly from memory, think it was pretty accurate; please look these up to see if I messed up; but the whole letter is admonishing "continue-in-salvation".
Please do; each of those very clearly speaks of "deceived-away-from-Jesus-and-salvation".
Originally Posted by Gadget
I'd go over each of the other passages, but if you would just post the actual text, not just the reference number, then each one is self explanatory so I don't believe I need to bother here. Just read it and believe it.
I look forward to your thoughts, especially on all of Hebrews...