Men better than women?

[Jeffinator]

Leviticus 12:1-5 "If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days...But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks..."

It would appear that the act of having a baby is a highly polluting act. To give birth to a girl is twice as polluting as is giving birth to a boy. And also..

Deuteronomy 24:1 "When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house."
Divorce can only be initiated by man and not woman? She has no say at all?

And Deuteronomy 21:10-13 describes how a soldier can force a woman captive to marry him without regard for her wishes.

These were only a few verses of many that I read and I know the role of men and women in the Bible but when I was reading, specifically the OT, some the things I read just are extremely niave and prejudice for no reason at all. I mean a baby boy is cleaner than a baby girl? Many of these laws seem to only see the perspective of the man.

Someone please shed some light on this for me.

[Alaska]

The OT dealt with situations as they existed, Anticipating what men would do, even unrighteous things and regulating the inevitable behaviour was better than not having any regulation and hence chaos.

Hence the need of a better and new covenant.

Even in the new there is clear difference of roles but "there is no difference" as far as being equally loved by and cared for by God.
As far as divorce goes, neither can divorce the other in the NT.
Such OT verses have no bearing on the Christian walk. We are under the NT truth now and not under the OT 'law' as a whole even though some laws are directly carried over and were included in the NT along with all its changes from the old.
The Bible is in two distinct parts. The OT and the NT.
We are no longer under the OT though it is historically factual and accurate so we still learn much from it along with prophesies etc.. But the question of moral right and wrong behaviour, meaning absolute truth, go to the NT for clarification when faced with confusing troublesome questions as a result of seeing what was done in the OT.

[jayne]

Leviticus 12:1-5 "If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days...But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks..."

It would appear that the act of having a baby is a highly polluting act. To give birth to a girl is twice as polluting as is giving birth to a boy.

What does it mean to be considered unclean? She couldn't go to the tabernacle and later the Temple during those days. Why? Well, a woman who has had a baby bleeds. The usual is 2-3 weeks after delivery, but it can also be up to 4-6 after delivery that she is still discharging blood, mucus, and possibly placental material. God was making provision for her to stay home and recuperate and tend to her hygiene needs.

But why the difference in a boy or girl baby?

Babies boys had to be circumcised on the 8th day. That's why the seven day period was given for the mother. Why 8 days? We know that newborn babies are susceptible to hemorrhaging because in the first seven days of their lives vitamin K which produces prothombin which prevents hemorrhaging isn't present in sufficient amounts. But guess when it is produced in amounts over 100% of what is necessary. Some medical professionals say the 8th day of life. In fact, some literature that I have come across (more than one source) say that it peaks at day 8.

In Biblical days, circumcision was a requirement and yet the process wasn't always sanitary nor safe as it is with today's medical supervision.

God wasn't downgrading the mother nor exalting a baby boy over a baby girl.

He was giving the mother privacy in an awkard time and protecting little boys from being circumcized too early and potentially, in those days with more primitive circumcision rituals, hemorrhaging.

She got some extra days of recuperation time with the little girls.

Trust me, she needed it. Postpartum women who are still bleeding heavily need to rest and keep clean.

[jayne]

Deuteronomy 21:10-
10 When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.

God wasn't making provisions for Israeli men to rape women. He was making provisions for the protection of foreign women from His own people.

God knew that humanity was wicked, even His own people could be prone to wickedness.

War is ugly and sometimes men rape captive women. God was making provisions for this not to happen.

(1.) He acknowledged that mortal men, because of their wickedness of heart, were going to be caught up in the bondage of lust to the point of rape.
(2.) He said that this was NOT to happen with His people. So He gives specific instructions to these soldiers.
(3.) These men could make these women their wives, only after they, themselves had a 30-day "cooling off" period in which they could not touch them.
(4.) During these 30 days, the women were allowed to mourn for their families and allowed to assimilate into the culture.
(5.) Only AFTER the 30 days, could they be together as husband and wife.....this implies consent.
(6.) God also knew that men in those days because of the hardness of their own hearts divorced women right and left! So, he made protective provisions for these same women in the case of their husbands choosing to frivolously dismiss them.
(7.) God said that dismissing these women by divorcing them was dishonoring them. They could not treat them as cattle, by selling them nor treat them as a slave. She had been his wife. She would be a free woman - free to live her live as she so chose.

God was not making provisions for wickedness.

He was making provisions for innocent women to be protected from wickedness by outlining in specific detail what these passion-driven men could and could not do.

[BHS]

What does it mean to be considered unclean? She couldn't go to the tabernacle and later the Temple during those days. Why? Well, a woman who has had a baby bleeds. The usual is 2-3 weeks after delivery, but it can also be up to 4-6 after delivery that she is still discharging blood, mucus, and possibly placental material. God was making provision for her to stay home and recuperate and tend to her hygiene needs.

But why the difference in a boy or girl baby?

Babies boys had to be circumcised on the 8th day. That's why the seven day period was given for the mother. Why 8 days? We know that newborn babies are susceptible to hemorrhaging because in the first seven days of their lives vitamin K which produces prothombin which prevents hemorrhaging isn't present in sufficient amounts. But guess when it is produced in amounts over 100% of what is necessary. Some medical professionals say the 8th day of life. In fact, some literature that I have come across (more than one source) say that it peaks at day 8.

In Biblical days, circumcision was a requirement and yet the process wasn't always sanitary nor safe as it is with today's medical supervision.

God wasn't downgrading the mother nor exalting a baby boy over a baby girl.

He was giving the mother privacy in an awkard time and protecting little boys from being circumcized too early and potentially, in those days with more primitive circumcision rituals, hemorrhaging.

She got some extra days of recuperation time with the little girls.

Trust me, she needed it. Postpartum women who are still bleeding heavily need to rest and keep clean.

Jayne, I agree, the seven days allows the mother to bring her baby to the temple to be circumcised on the 8th day. Otherwise, some other person would have to bring him and the mother would not be able to attend the circumcision.

Blessings,
BHS

[Jeffinator]

Well also in Numbers 30 it describes that a vow taken by a man is binding. But a vow taken by a woman can be nullified by her father, if she is still living in her family of origin, or by her husband, if she is married.


The thing I'm getting at is I always get confronted about how the Bible is discriminatory toward women and puts them down. I never know exactly how to respond because sometimes this is true.

[BHS]

Well also in Numbers 30 it describes that a vow taken by a man is binding. But a vow taken by a woman can be nullified by her father, if she is still living in her family of origin, or by her husband, if she is married.


The thing I'm getting at is I always get confronted about how the Bible is discriminatory toward women and puts them down. I never know exactly how to respond because sometimes this is true.

Jeffinator, this is actually not a put down, but a protection for her. Her father would nullify it only if he knew it would not be in her best interest. Perhaps a woman, being of a more emotional nature and the role she had in society, would need that protection.

Blessings, BHS

[jayne]

Well also in Numbers 30 it describes that a vow taken by a man is binding. But a vow taken by a woman can be nullified by her father, if she is still living in her family of origin, or by her husband, if she is married.


The thing I'm getting at is I always get confronted about how the Bible is discriminatory toward women and puts them down. I never know exactly how to respond because sometimes this is true.

Jeff,

Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew what we are NOT to make vows before God because we can't keep them. It was a very serious thing to swear before Almighty God that you would do something and then break your vows to Him.

That's the same thing as lying to His face.

Jesus said it's best NOT to do it in the first place.

The men in the Old Testament were doing that and they were held mightily accountable for it. And in Numbers 30, women who were divorced or widowed were held accountable for everything that came out of their mouths as a vow before God. The were responsible for themselves and took care of themselves.

But an unmarried woman or a married one didn't always have the resources to back up what the vows that they made.

God made provision for them not be sinning by breaking a vow, by allowing their husband or their father to nullify it if they saw that they were not able to keep it.

This isn't putting women down. And it isn't a matter of saying that a woman's words don't carry as much weight as a man's. It was saying that, in that particular culture, when a woman had not the same legal resources at her disposal that her father or husband did, that she her vows to God could be nullified if she couldn't keep them.

Divorced women and widowed women vows were considered the same as a man's vows.

You are trying to make a misogynist out of God, but He just isn't.