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Thread: Capitol Punishment.......what do you believe?

  1. #1
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    Capitol Punishment.......what do you believe?

    Personally,I believe in Capitol Punishment,but I don't think the punishment fits the crime.Years ago,the killers were caught,tried,and executed very quickly. Now they're caught,tried,sentenced,and either given a life sentence or if they do get a death sentence,they have to wade through appeals for twenty years,they could die of cancer or another illness before the excecuted.

    Years ago they were hanged,electrocuted,shot or put in the gas chamber.
    Now they put them to death in manner as a unwanted dog.Do you think maybe this is the reason for the rise in crime? That the criminals may think they can get off the hook? I've always felt that the death the criminals face is pretty easy comparing what they themselves done to their victims.Maybe we should do the eye for a eye type punishment.
    Discuss.

  2. #2
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    I think we need to leave room for God's wrath. At the same time, God is the only one that allows governments to rule and it is the job of our leaders to protect society from people that would hurt others.
    Psalm 19:14
    Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.



  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by KATMAN View Post
    if they do get a death sentence,they have to wade through appeals for twenty years,they could die of cancer or another illness before the excecuted.
    You're exactly right as far as this being a significant part of the problem with the death penalty. If we, like other countries who do it right, caught 'em, tried 'em quick, then sent them off to their destiny in short order, we would likely see a drop in crime.

    But that'll never happen in this country. A death sentence will continue to really mean life in an environment with free healthcare, cable TV, 3 square meals a day, playing football, soccer, lifting weights, basketball, video games, getting your college education for free, etc...

  4. #4
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    I am all for PUBLIC hangings. Let them swing until the sun goes down. I would be willing to bet that would deter crime.
    For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

    If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

    Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

  5. #5
    I'm for the death penalty, but not to punish people. The fact is, some people are too dangerous to let loose, and keeping them in jail with the tax money of their victims is sick.

    We do what we do to make the world as good a place as we can, punishment is up to God alone.

  6. #6

    A friendly reminder, from a scruffy guy, in God's eyes a criminal

    Hi, KATMAN!
    Welcome to Bibleforums!
    It's great to have you here!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by KATMAN View Post
    Capital Punishment ...
    ... I've always felt that the death the criminals face is pretty easy comparing what they themselves done to their victims. Maybe we should do the eye for a eye type punishment. ...
    The question -- like almost every significant question of human affairs we face -- is hard to discuss rightly (IMO) without starting from the basics, the basics of the Christian faith.

    Our starting place is the Gospel of Christ

    God made us human beings in love, and established us in righteousness, originally. But our first parents sinned, and all our race is fallen. As God warned, the result of our disobedience is death -- eternal death -- that is, separation from God who is the source of all life, goodness, hope, love, truth, peace, sanity and joy. Such separation is (IMO) the inevitable consequence of our rebellion against God: it cannot be that we reject God without that the love and grace which God seeks to give us is, in some way, cut off from us; by our rebellion against God, we cut ourselves off decisively from what is good, for God alone, ultimately, is good, and the source of all goodness. Such separation is also just: it is fitting, and fair, that those who seek to do what is wrong, and rebel against God, are (intrinsically, and by their own actions, among other things) cut off from God and His goodness. And such terrible separation as a consequence of our determination to be wicked is also something that God -- in a provisional sense -- wills, for He cannot will that those who hate what is good and reject the source of their being, continue in unchecked growth in wickedness, nor that they take pleasure with impunity in their wrongdoing, and rejection of Him.

    "God is love", John's first Epistle tells us (twice, at 4:8 and 4:16), and God's eternal love is also shown toward His creation -- and toward humanity even in our fallenness. It is our first duty to "love the Lord" our God with all our "heart and mind and soul and strength", and to love all other people that we encounter, to "love your neighbor as yourself", for "He who loves God must love his brother also (I John 4)." While love is of the first importance even for the natural man (for the image of God is marred, but not eradicated in me -- and in other sinners, other human beings -- by the fall, and by my own wickedness, though, yet) the real source of love is found not in our love, but in God's. "We love because he first loved us" and "This is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us, and gave His son to be the propitiation for our sins (I John 4)"

    "God so loved the world" -- loved me, in all my scruffiness and appalling sin and rebellion and wickedness -- "that he gave His only son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." For "God sent the Son into the world not to condemn the world, but through Him the world might be saved" (John 3). God has accepted those who give their hearts to Him in Christ, not on the basis of our own adequacy or righteousness -- on that basis, I am a rebel, and deserve dreadful punishment -- but through the person and work of Christ Jesus His only Son, who became a human being for our sakes, that the work of God in making humanity might not be destroyed, and that we might become God's children through Christ, despite our sins.

    For "this is the message that we have heard from Him [Christ] and declare to you: that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all!" (I John 1:5) God in his mercy loves, and saves, us sinners, though we deserve death. "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (1:8) but "if we acknowledge our sin" God "is faithful and just to forgive our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1:9) so that "we have fellowship with one another" (1:7) -- with all other sinners who, like us, do the same lawless deeds, including murderers. For when we sin "we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world." (2:2)

    To seem to accept the love God has for us, to seem to accept Christ, while actually believing that God is saving us because we are cool, righteous folks, whose lives God approves, or has no big problem with, is not to accept God's love, Christ's grace, at all. It's instead to suppose that our own works merit God's approval, despite all our sins. In fact, it's to rely on ourselves and our own virtue, rather than on God, which is just a further act of self-centeredness, living willfully in illusion, pride, and rebellion against the reality of our lives, and of God's sovereignty, and against God.

    It's for that reason (among others) that what Jesus tells us concerning how we look at others and look at ourselves is an inevitable consequence of the truth of the message of salvation (that God saves me, a sinner, not by my efforts and righteousness, but by His kindness and grace, through Christ). Thus Jesus "told this parable to some who trusted in themselves, that they were righteous, and despised others" (Luke 18:9-14)
    Two men went up into the temple to pray one a Pharisee [that is, a man strictly obedient to the best of his ability to God's commands] and the other a tax collector [that is, a traitor, and profiteer from oppressing God's people for a foreign power]. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, "God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and give tithes of all that I get." But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying "God be merciful to me a sinner." I tell you this man, rather than the other, went down to his house justified, for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.

    Likewise, it is for this reason that Jesus tells us to be good to our enemies, and even to those who persecute us, "that you may be children of your Father in heaven, for he makes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust." (Matt 5:45, and 5:38-48) "He is good even to the ungrateful and the wicked" -- and it is for that reason that He is good to me, despite my many sins. Again it is for this reason that Jesus emphasizes that we must forgive those who offend us, or sin against us -- and ask God to "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors." Jesus says that if we do not forgive others, God cannot, or will not, forgive us. In an extended discussion of forgiveness in Matt. 18 Jesus says we are to forgive those who sin against us an indeterminate number of times (70x7) because we are people who have been forgiven an infinite debt by God (10,000 talents, billions of dollars) and those who have done wrong to us, or others, have done us small, trivial, injuries (50 denarii, a few thousand bucks worth).

    The whole point is the center of the gospel: the love of God for us sinners, though we in no way merit His grace -- and who even after being saved by Jesus' love and sacrifice keep sinning against Him, rejecting Him -- which saves us despite our wicked deeds. Thus, to accept God's mercy logically requires and necessarily means that we rejoice in God's mercy not just to us, but to others also, including those whose deeds offend us, and who have sinned against us. We are ourselves saved as murderers, as rebels, like the dying thief, whose sins God forgave on the cross. To understand, accept, and receive God's grace and love, His forgiveness which we cannot earn, means, by its very nature, that we are not standing in harsh judgment upon others, but loving other sinners, who, like us, have fallen, and whom God loves with the very same love with which He loves us. God's aim for us -- and the very meaning of what it is to be transformed into His image and likeness -- is that we should love what He loves, and live with the love and grace that is the very lifeblood of His being. Thus, if we are God's, we love others, including our enemies and those who have injured us, or others. This is "God's very great and precious promise to us" that we should be granted the power "to become partakers of the divine nature", to love as God loves.

    How do we look at serious sinners, at criminals?


    Therefore, it is essential -- and essential for our own wellbeing, our ability to understand God's love, our ability to let God work in our lives -- that we do not despise others, or hate them, but rather look upon dreadful and terrible sinners with the love and compassion God has, wishing them well, and hoping for the best for them.

    For we are no better ourselves! It's not that we are nickel and dime sinners, whose sins God overlooks because we are not so very bad, and have not sinned so very badly, while others, whom we despise as "criminals" are the really bad folks whom we can look down upon, for it's really their sins, not ours, which are offensive to God. No! We are sinners just like the worst of men. God loves us, and saves us, despite our sins; and likewise God loves them. If we also do not love them, we are not loving those whom God loves just as He loves us, by His mercy and grace and goodness. If we do not love them, as we are loved by God, we have not really understood what God's love toward us is!

    Thus Jesus tells us that whoever is without sin is free to cast the first stone. We are not without sin, and are in no place to cast stones at others, including serious sinners. Yet Christ, who is without sin, and indeed is God almighty, against whom sins, ultimately, are done, looks upon us sinners and does not condemn us, but seeks to free us to live rightly, and for Him. (John 8) Similarly, Paul tells us
    you have no excuse, ... whoever you are wehn you judge another, for in passing judgment upon another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, do the very same things. ... Do you presume upon the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But y your heard and impenitant heart you are stroing up wrath for yourself .... (Rom. 2:1, 4-5)

    About how we conduct ourselves on this thread

    It's very common, unfortunately, for threads like this to be places where some are tempted toward self-righteousness and even hatred and meanness toward others, whom they despise, because they see those others as the really bad people (and of course, themselves as pretty good by comparison). Not on threads like this, but in other contexts, I make just the same mistake, alas! For there's a lot of badness in my heart!

    The question of just how we should handle issues of criminal justice -- including the death penalty -- is complex, I think, and serious Christians have different opinions about it, on all sides. Thus, I by no means think that what I've said, quoting the Scriptures, about God's love and our love for all necessarily means that certain criminals should not die for their crimes. I'm not arguing here against the death penalty: I'm taking no stand upon that issue, one way or the other. It's not my purpose in posting.

    Rather, I am posting to ask that people post in a godly spirit. To post in a Godly spirit means humbly, with compassion and love for those who have gone astray, with realism about our position as serious sinners whom God loves, and awareness of the greatness of God's undeserved love and mercy to us sinners. Post with the awareness that Scruffy Kid is, actually, no better than a murderer (though by God's grace and kindness I happen not to be one) and that others who post may be almost as bad as me, even if they have not badly broken society's rules.

    In friendship,
    Scruffy Kid

  7. #7
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    From a Biblical perspective, perhaps it's worth considering this passage as well.

    Mat 18:23-35 NKJV Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. (24) And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. (25) But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. (26) The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, 'Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.' (27) Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt. (28) "But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, 'Pay me what you owe!' (29) So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.' (30) And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. (31) So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. (32) Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. (33) Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?' (34) And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. (35) "So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses."
    24 August 2013 - I've decided to take a break from a number of internet forums, including this one, for my own reasons.
    I expect to be back at some time in the future, although at present don't know when that will be.
    I've been here just a few days shy of six years, and those six years have been greatly blessed.

    ---

    1Jn 4:1 NKJV Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
    1Th 5:21-22 NKJV Test all things; hold fast what is good. (22) Abstain from every form of evil.




  8. #8
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    Justice will find each man. But let the individual keep from condemning others and harboring malice.
    Jeremy, a bondservant of the Lord.

    Today is a good day to die for Christ.

  9. #9
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    I prefer Lowercase Punishment myself

    But, I do agree with the death penalty. I think life sentence should be removed and death penalty be put in it's place, to be honest. I mentioned this in my Overpopulation thread as one of the options.

  10. #10

    I believe...

    Quote Originally Posted by KATMAN View Post
    Personally,I believe in Capitol Punishment,but I don't think the punishment fits the crime.

    Discuss.
    ...That the current form of Capital Punishment in the US is the fairest ever.

    For every death sentence carried out eighteen murders are prevented (yes there is a study).

    The incarceration of murderers for life does not prevent them from murdering or inspiring others to murder.

    Scripture requires murderers to be killed, and, if on a jury that has seen unimpeachable evidence of innocents intentionally killed I would vote for the death penalty.
    JER 14:13 Then said I: 'Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them: Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.'
    JER 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me: 'The prophets prophesy lies in My name; I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke I unto them; they prophesy unto you a lying vision, and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their own heart.

  11. #11
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    I believe that capital punishment is morally valid, but I sometimes question the eligibility of an increasingly godless and often corrupt justice system to be vested with that power.

    A few random, possibly even relevant, comments:

    I don't typically support "eye for an eye" suggestions of capital punishment. Humane executions should be the norm. Capital punishment should be for justice, not vengeance.

    Much of the foot-dragging and cumbersomeness of capital punishment in the US seems to come from the fear of making a mistake and executing an innocent man. I don't think this is a bad sentiment, but human systems will make errors. If we are to employ capital punishment, it needs to be done accepting the fact that there will likely be some cost in innocent lives. Sentences should be carried out quickly.

    While I appreciate Scruffy Kid's perspective, I believe that there's a difference between how Christians must view individuals and how a community handles questions of justice. As individuals, we are not to condemn... but a government made up of individuals is given judgment authority by God.

    Furthermore, I believe Scruffy Kid is, in fact, better than a murderer. Perhaps no less able to justify himself before God, but absolutely better than a murderer. I don't believe all sins are equal before God... else there would be no need to judge according to deeds at the Great White Throne.

    in peace
    faithmyeyes

  12. #12
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    Re: Capitol Punishment.......what do you believe?

    I believe in CAPITAL punishment.

    I believe that CAPITOL Punishment is a Megadeth compilation album.

    Seriously, the more news I read/watch, the more I believe in capital punishment.

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