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Thread: Were mythological Gods real?

  1. #1

    Were mythological Gods real?

    We all know there is one God. However the Bible itself almost makes it seem that the mythological Gods were real.

    Genesis Chapter 6:4 At that time the Nephilim appeared on earth, after the sons of heaven had intercourse with the daughters of man, who bore them sons. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown.

    The last sentence strikes a blow right into the idea of Myth's being real. Heroes of old. It didn't dawn on me until I saw Alexander the great, that their mythological Gods and heroes were "of old" andicent times before any of them were around. Were the Nephilim and fallen angels subjegating people on earth back then, were the Nephilim and their sons treated as Gods and the sons of gods, ie Heracles, Thesius, the Titans like prometheus or Egyptian Gods.

    Now I know there is one God, but to a primitive people a large person with extraordinary abilities could claim to be Gods and the people might listen and follow them in fear of their own civilizations being wiped out by them.

    What are your throughts? Were the Nephilim validated as the ancient gods of mythologies to these early peoples or are they not? Does the OT validate these early gods with an explanation of why man might believe in them? or am I reading too much into this small section of the bible?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by John27 View Post
    We all know there is one God. However the Bible itself almost makes it seem that the mythological Gods were real.

    Genesis Chapter 6:4 At that time the Nephilim appeared on earth, after the sons of heaven had intercourse with the daughters of man, who bore them sons. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown.

    The last sentence strikes a blow right into the idea of Myth's being real. Heroes of old. It didn't dawn on me until I saw Alexander the great, that their mythological Gods and heroes were "of old" andicent times before any of them were around. Were the Nephilim and fallen angels subjegating people on earth back then, were the Nephilim and their sons treated as Gods and the sons of gods, ie Heracles, Thesius, the Titans like prometheus or Egyptian Gods.

    Now I know there is one God, but to a primitive people a large person with extraordinary abilities could claim to be Gods and the people might listen and follow them in fear of their own civilizations being wiped out by them.

    What are your throughts? Were the Nephilim validated as the ancient gods of mythologies to these early peoples or are they not? Does the OT validate these early gods with an explanation of why man might believe in them? or am I reading too much into this small section of the bible?
    Nephilim just means "giants" as per KJV. They are found after the flood too:

    Num 13:33 And there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, which come from the Nephilim: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

    And the other gods in the Bible do not exist:

    De 32:39 See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god apart from me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

    2Ki 1:3 But the angel of the LORD said to Elijah the Tishbite, Arise, go up to meet the messengers of the king of Samaria, and say unto them, Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that you go to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron?

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    There are differing opinions as to the origins of the Nephilim. I can't seem to make up my mind as to which opinion that I hold.

    As a whole, I tend to think that most cultures' pantheons came from ancestor worship; a certain person may have done some great things, then their stories are told, embellished over time, and before too long that person has become a god.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven3 View Post
    Nephilim just means "giants" as per KJV. They are found after the flood too:

    Num 13:33 And there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, which come from the Nephilim: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

    And the other gods in the Bible do not exist:

    De 32:39 See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god apart from me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

    2Ki 1:3 But the angel of the LORD said to Elijah the Tishbite, Arise, go up to meet the messengers of the king of Samaria, and say unto them, Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that you go to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron?

    That is what I mean. THe Nephilim are Giants and therefore subjegators of humans in the past pre flood. They might have tried to use their strength over the men to make the men worship them as gods, or heroes.

    I'm not saying there is more than one God, I'm saying that Mythological Gods could be giant men posing as gods and heroes to the masses and thus the stories spread through time as myths, or to some cultures their religion.

  5. #5
    Mozza Guest

    Cool Nephilim and Anakim

    Quote Originally Posted by John27 View Post
    That is what I mean. THe Nephilim are Giants and therefore subjegators of humans in the past pre flood. They might have tried to use their strength over the men to make the men worship them as gods, or heroes.

    I'm not saying there is more than one God, I'm saying that Mythological Gods could be giant men posing as gods and heroes to the masses and thus the stories spread through time as myths, or to some cultures their religion.
    In all likelihood, the mythological gods of the Greeks and other cultures may well have had their beginnings in these events of the pre-flood era.

    The gods and demi gods fit the description well.
    After the flood, many ledgends developed around the flood and pre flood events. These were taken around the world when the language was confused at the Tower of Babel and man spread out in the earth.

    As mentioned at Numbers 13:33, the 12 Hebrew spies first saw the Anakim, and 10 of the spies subsequently gave a frightening report of the experience, alleging that these men were descendants of the pre-Flood Nephilim and that, by comparison with them, the Hebrews were like “grasshoppers.”
    The Nephilim were destroyed in the flood so the post-flood "giants" were descended from Anak, whose descendants were very tall in stature; they were even described as 'Nephilim.'

    1 Cor 8:5, 6 says "For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him."

    Hope that helps...

    Mozza

  6. #6
    These will be translated "no breath" in some versions, but it's the same word in Hebrew:



    Jer 51:17 Every man is stupid and without knowledge; every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols, for his images are false, and there is no spirit in them.


    Hab 2:19 Woe to him who says to a wooden thing, Awake; to a silent stone, Arise! Can this teach? Behold, it is overlaid with gold and silver, and there is no spirit at all in it.

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    If you look at some ancient hieroglyphs (Sumerian, Persian, Egyptian, etc, ) you will notice that some depict their gods and heroes of old as being giant in stature.

    I think it is entirely possible that the nephilim and/or their children were worshipped as gods by ancient people.

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    I believe this might answer your questions on mythological gods. Genesis 6:12 corresponds with these scriptures from the Book of Enoch,

    Chapter 7

    1It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.
    2And when the angels, (3) the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamored of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.
    (3) An Aramaic text reads "Watchers" here (J.T. Milik, Aramaic Fragments of Qumran Cave 4 [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1976], p. 167).
    3Then their leader Samyaza said to them; I fear that you may perhaps be indisposed to the performance of this enterprise;
    4And that I alone shall suffer for so grievous a crime.
    5But they answered him and said; We all swear;
    6And bind ourselves by mutual execrations, that we will not change our intention, but execute our projected undertaking.
    7Then they swore all together, and all bound themselves by mutual execrations. Their whole number was two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, (4) which is the top of mount Armon.
    (4) Upon Ardis. Or, "in the days of Jared" (R.H. Charles, ed. and trans., The Book of Enoch [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1893], p. 63).
    8That mountain therefore was called Armon, because they had sworn upon it, (5) and bound themselves by mutual execrations.
    (5) Mt. Armon, or Mt. Hermon, derives its name from the Hebrew word herem, a curse (Charles, p. 63).
    9These are the names of their chiefs: Samyaza, who was their leader, Urakabarameel, Akibeel, Tamiel, Ramuel, Danel, Azkeel, Saraknyal, Asael, Armers, Batraal, Anane, Zavebe, Samsaveel, Ertael, Turel, Yomyael, Arazyal. These were the prefects of the two hundred angels, and the remainder were all with them. (6)
    (6) The Aramaic texts preserve an earlier list of names of these Watchers: Semihazah; Artqoph; Ramtel; Kokabel; Ramel; Danieal; Zeqiel; Baraqel; Asael; Hermoni; Matarel; Ananel; Stawel; Samsiel; Sahriel; Tummiel; Turiel; Yomiel; Yhaddiel (Milik, p. 151).
    10Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantations, and the dividing of roots and trees.
    11And the women conceiving brought forth giants, (7)
    (7) The Greek texts vary considerably from the Ethiopic text here. One Greek manuscript adds to this section, "And they [the women] bore to them [the Watchers] three races–first, the great giants. The giants brought forth [some say "slew"] the Naphelim, and the Naphelim brought forth [or "slew"] the Elioud. And they existed, increasing in power according to their greatness." See the account in the Book of Jubilees.
    12Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labor of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them;(30-40 ft tall)

    13When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them;
    14And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, (8) and to drink their blood.
    (8) Their flesh one after another. Or, "one another’s flesh." R.H. Charles notes that this phrase may refer to the destruction of one class of giants by another (Charles, p. 65).
    15Then the earth reproved the unrighteous.

    Chapter 8
    1Moreover Azazyel taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the fabrication of mirrors, and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint, the beautifying of the eyebrows, the use of stones of every valuable and select kind, and all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered.
    2Impiety increased; fornication multiplied; and they transgressed and corrupted all their ways.
    3Amazarak taught all the sorcerers, and dividers of roots:
    4Armers taught the solution of sorcery;
    5Barkayal taught the observers of the stars, (9)
    (9) Observers of the stars. Astrologers (Charles, p. 67).
    6Akibeel taught signs;
    7Tamiel taught astronomy;
    8And Asaradel taught the motion of the moon,
    9And men, being destroyed, cried out; and their voice reached to heaven.

    Chapter 9
    1Then Michael and Gabriel, Raphael, Suryal, and Uriel, looked down from heaven, and saw the quantity of blood which was shed on earth, and all the iniquity which was done upon it, and said one to another, It is the voice of their cries;
    2The earth deprived of her children has cried even to the gate of heaven.
    3And now to you, O you holy one of heaven, the souls of men complain, saying, Obtain Justice for us with (10) the Most High. Then they said to their Lord, the King, You are Lord of lords, God of gods, King of kings. The throne of your glory is for ever and ever, and for ever and ever is your name sanctified and glorified. You are blessed and glorified.


    I believe these are the Olympian gods, Scandinavian gods, egyptian gods,etc.. what the Book of Ephesians refers to as the Powers, Principalities, Authorities,and Rulers. This was the reason for the great deluge, The Great flood.

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    I believe that the giants and fallen angels could have been worshipped as 'gods'. If they were different from man in stature and strength, then they would have been worshipped even if they did not seek it out. I'm guessing that they did seek out worship from humans and enslaved them in more ways than one.

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    No. Mythological gods were not real. There is only one God. In order to be God, you have to be eternal. Therefore gods cannot be eternal because they would have been created.


    In essence No. Mythological gods are not and were not real. Which is why they were called Mythological. The God who speaks is the only God in existence.

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    Joe King,

    You are absolutely right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tt1106 View Post
    No. Mythological gods were not real. There is only one God. In order to be God, you have to be eternal. Therefore gods cannot be eternal because they would have been created.


    In essence No. Mythological gods are not and were not real. Which is why they were called Mythological. The God who speaks is the only God in existence.
    Indeed there is only One True God. I don't think anyone is questioning that.

    I think what is being said is that maybe the giants of old were percieved as gods and falsely worshipped as gods by ancient people..............not that they were gods.

    That perhaps these ancient mythological tales of the 'gods' are actually legends that speak of the nephilim.

    God bless.
    pinky

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mighty Sword View Post
    I believe this might answer your questions on mythological gods. Genesis 6:12 corresponds with these scriptures from the Book of Enoch,..........

    I believe these are the Olympian gods, Scandinavian gods, egyptian gods,etc.. what the Book of Ephesians refers to as the Powers, Principalities, Authorities,and Rulers. This was the reason for the great deluge, The Great flood.

    The book of Enoch also says that after the nephilim died, their spirits roam the earth to torment men and have become known as demons.

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    Pinky, are you familiar with the gibborim? I bet we can talk all day about this.

    You're Right, That's what I posted at the bottom of my page:

    "I believe these are the Olympian gods, Scandinavian gods, egyptian gods,etc.. what the Book of Ephesians refers to as the Powers, Principalities, Authorities,and Rulers."


    Nefilim (fallen), the Giborim (mighty men), the Anakim (giants), the Refaim (shades) and the Amalekim

    We know that there are many types of entities from the upper worlds that have come to be in our “physical world”. A few of these species are described in the verses below.
    There were Nefilim in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men of old, men of Name. (Gen 6:4)
    And there we saw the Nefilim, the sons of Anak, who come from the Nefilim; and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so were we in their sight. (Numbers 13:33)
    And the Lord said to me, Distress not the Moabites, neither contend with them in battle; for I will not give you of their land for a possession; because I have given Ar to the sons of Lot for a possession.The Emim lived there in times past, a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakim; Who also were considered Refaim, like the Anakim; but the Moabites call them Emim. (Deut 2:9-11)
    These are five different types of negative creatures (souls) that incarnate as humans and whose purpose is to prevent the dissemination of spiritual wisdom and spiritual work.
    In the Bible it is written :
    And the Lord gave the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent them such things as they required. And they carried away the wealth of the Egyptians. And the people of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot, who were men, beside children. And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, and very many cattle. (Exodus 12:36-38)
    Among the mixed multitude were the bankers of Egypt, they wanted to leave with Isreal as they saw Isreal leave Egypt with great wealth. The Magicians of Egypt saw the great power moses had and wanted it. The wise men of Egypt envied Moses’ wisdom.
    Bringing this mixed multitude out of Egypt was the only thing Moses decided to do on his own accord. The God did not instruct Moses to take the mixed multitude out of Egypt. Nor did He disapprove of it. Moses reasoned that the souls of Isreal that would fall among the nations while in exile would be more difficult to find and redeem. This would cause the exile to last longer. Moses made a deal with God that these souls instead of beings scattered to the 4 corners of the earth would be incarnated among the “erev rav” (mixed multitude) which would always be close to the Jewish people. So it is easier to bring these souls back.
    There is one big problem with this :
    There are five races in the mixed multitude. These are the Nefilim (fallen), the Giborim (mighty men), the Anakim (giants), the Refaim (shades) and the Amalekim
    Having these kind of people around the Jewish people is and big problem itself as we will see. They have caused so many disasters for the Jewish people. It was the mixed multitude who built the golden calf in the desert, and were continually complaining saying “lets go back to Egypt”.
    THE KLIPAH (evil force) OF AMALEK has became the leaders of the world, men of great power.. They have caused much violence toward the children of Yisrael. Hitler, and Hamen in the story in the Bible of Ester and Purim was of the group of souls called Amalak. Hitler, and Hamen were Amalak incarnate in the Nations of Germany and Persia. Those Jews who worked with Hitler as described in the book “perfidy” were Amalak incarnate in the the “erev rav” (mixed multitude). It is written the “erev rav” will come to rule over the Jews in the land of Isreal in the later period before the coming of the Messiah.
    The Nefilim (the fallen ones) are THE KLIPAH (evil force) of strange thoughts. The disseminate false wisdom. They make corrupt understandings of the Torah to lead people away from the path which is true. They have created new religions and have called the “Judaism”. Yet the True Torah As the Rambam1 taught in the Mishneh Torah,2 “Moses received all the mitzvot (commandments) (Ex. 24: 12). ‘And I give to you the Tablets of Stone, and the Law and the Commandment.’ The Law refers to the Written Torah; the Commandment to the Oral Torah, its explanation. Moses taught the whole of it in his court to the Seventy Elders, as well as to Joshua. Pinchas received it from Joshua; Eli from Pinchas; Samuel from Eli; David from Samuel; Ahiyah from David; Elijah from Ahiyah; Elisha from Elijah …..passed person to person till being written down in the Talmud. The Nefilim try to corrupt wisdom and its teaching.
    Of the Giborim, (mighty ones), the third group of the MIXED MULTITUDE, it is written: “The same were mighty men of old, men of renown (lit. ‘men with a name’)” (Genesis 6:4). They build synagogues and yeshivas (places of learning Torah), putting the scroll of the Torah and a crown upon its top. But it is not done for God. Instead, it is done to make themselves a name for them selves. They are the one’s to whom money is everything as by it they want to be honored. They do these things so people will give them honor. They shatter and waste the work of learning Torah in their institutions, by place emphasis on all the wrong things and negating that which is most important.
    The Refaim (shades) are the fourth group of the MIXED MULTITUDE. If they notice a time of distress coming upon the children of Yisrael, they abandon them. Even if they have the power to save them, they do not want to do so. They abandon the Torah and those who study it. Instead, they do favors to those who worship idols. Of them, it is written: “The shades of the dead (Heb. refaim) shall not rise” (Yeshayah 26:14), When the time of redemption comes, it is written about them: “And made all their memory to perish” (Yeshayah 26:14).
    Anakim (giants) ARE the fifth group of the MIXED MULTITUDE They belittle the value of those who observe the Torah. Unlike the Refaim who abandon the Torah and those who study it. These souls go a step further. These people have a great disrespect for spirituality. They make great efforts to make others abandon serving God, calling it foolishness. The have pleasure by ridiculing those involved in spiritual pursuits. They see it as a big waste of time. There is a evil force within them that has them make their focus in life being against and degrading those who Love God. “Who also were considered Refaim as the Anakim” (Devarim 2:11), so they are on a level with each other.
    The redemption does not depend on the destruction OF THE REFAIM, but on THE DESTRUCTION OF Amalek, that is, until he who was referred to in the oath is destroyed, AS IT IS WRITTEN: “BECAUSE YAH HAS SWORN BY HIS THRONE THAT HASHEM WILL HAVE WAR WITH AMALEK…” (Exudus 17:16)
    It is these kinds of souls that are incarnated among the Jews which have been a cause of so much anti Semitism. As people don’t know that these people may be born from Jewish mothers but their souls are not that of incarnations of Jews, but “erev rav”. Its revealed only 1 person out of 5 was a Jew who left Egypt, the rest were “erev rav”. So many of the “Jews” in exile among the nations are Certainly “erev rav”. It was said by a wise man that close to 1/3 of the Jews living in Israel today are “erev rav” (mixed multitude).
    Amalak and these other entities mentioned here are not only incarnated in the MIXED MULTITUDE but among the nations also, so beware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky View Post
    The book of Enoch also says that after the nephilim died, their spirits roam the earth to torment men and have become known as demons.
    Makes sense to me.

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