But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved?

***Firstfruits*** · Jun 23rd 2009, 01:24 PM

With regards to the following scriptures if those that endure until the end are alraedy saved why then does Jesus say that they shall be saved or that they should endure to the end?

Mt 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

With the understanding that the disciples belonged to Christ why did they say that they will be saved.

Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Why should we wait until the end?

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

***markedward*** · Jun 23rd 2009, 03:35 PM

The initiation of salvation came by Christ's work on the cross, in which his followers' sins are covered by the blood of his sacrifice, and receive the promise of eternal life.

The consummation of salvation comes by Christ's coming, in which he issues judgment and rewards his followers with the eternal life he promised to them.

Luke 21.27-28: And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.

Christ plainly associated the "redemption" of his followers with his coming.

Romans 8.23: And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

Paul places "the redemption of our bodies" as something not yet obtained.

Hebrews 9.28: ... so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

The author of Hebrews clearly says that Christ will "save those who are eagerly waiting for him" at his coming.

1 Peter 1.5: ... who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Peter plainly states that "salvation" was "ready to be revealed in the last time", referring to the "end of the age" that Jesus spoke about. Hence, people are to "endure to the end". The context of the statement is about persecution; Jesus is encouraging people to endure in their faith despite persecution, as opposed to giving up their faith when hard times come. Those who give up their faith, of course, will not "be saved". But those who endure in their faith, despite persecution, "shall be saved", and they will receive the salvation Christ promised to them.

***divaD*** · Jun 23rd 2009, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by markedward

Jesus is
encouraging people to endure in their faith despite persecution, as opposed to giving up their faith when hard times come.
Those who give up their faith, of course, will not "be saved"

Someone with an OSAS mindset will probably undoubtedly disagree with this, but overall, speaking for myself, I pretty much agree with your conclusions in this post.

***Firefighter*** · Jun 23rd 2009, 04:01 PM

Agreed. The context of Matthew 10:22 is speaking of tribulation saints... assuming you buy into the pretrib/ dipsy line of thought.

***-SEEKING-*** · Jun 23rd 2009, 04:29 PM

You're first 3 points. It isn't until we "die" that we "need" to be saved. Or rather, it's at that point when "shall be saved" becomes a reality. Not sure if you understand what I mean.

The last 3. I guess you can also see it as a promise. That if you keep your faith "until the end" you will be rewarded. I know it's a tough one. One can also say that it's a warning. Honestly this is one subject that I see great arguments either side. I just thank God and trust God that He will do with me what He says in His precious word.

***RogerW*** · Jun 23rd 2009, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by markedward

Those who give up their faith, of course, will not "be saved". But those who endure in their faith, despite persecution, "shall be saved", and they will receive the salvation Christ promised to them.

Greetings Markedward,

I agree, and now find myself wondering who would give up faith unto salvation? Is this possible since we are being kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation?

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Many Blessings,
RW

***Firstfruits*** · Jun 23rd 2009, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by markedward

The initiation of salvation came by Christ's work on the cross, in which his followers' sins are covered by the blood of his sacrifice, and receive the promise of eternal life.

The consummation of salvation comes by Christ's coming, in which he issues judgment and rewards his followers with the eternal life he promised to them.

Luke 21.27-28: And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.

Christ plainly associated the "redemption" of his followers with his coming.

Romans 8.23: And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

Paul places "the redemption of our bodies" as something not yet obtained.

Hebrews 9.28: ... so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

The author of Hebrews clearly says that Christ will "save those who are eagerly waiting for him" at his coming.

1 Peter 1.5: ... who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Peter plainly states that "salvation" was "ready to be revealed in the last time", referring to the "end of the age" that Jesus spoke about. Hence, people are to "endure to the end". The context of the statement is about persecution; Jesus is encouraging people to endure in their faith despite persecution, as opposed to giving up their faith when hard times come. Those who give up their faith, of course, will not "be saved". But those who endure in their faith, despite persecution, "shall be saved", and they will receive the salvation Christ promised to them.

Thanks Markedward,

God bless you!

Firstfruits

***Firstfruits*** · Jun 23rd 2009, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by divaD

Someone with an OSAS mindset will probably undoubtedly disagree with this, but overall, speaking for myself, I pretty much agree with your conclusions in this post.

If we could say that we are already saved would that not mean that we would not have to endure until the end when Jesus returns according to that which is written?

God bless you!

Firstfruits

***Firstfruits*** · Jun 23rd 2009, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Urban Missionary

Agreed. The context of Matthew 10:22 is speaking of tribulation saints... assuming you buy into the pretrib/ dipsy line of thought.

Even so, if they are already saved Jesus would not have said they needed to endure to the end to be saved.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

***Firstfruits*** · Jun 23rd 2009, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by -SEEKING-

You're first 3 points. It isn't until we "die" that we "need" to be saved. Or rather, it's at that point when "shall be saved" becomes a reality. Not sure if you understand what I mean.

The last 3. I guess you can also see it as a promise. That if you keep your faith "until the end" you will be rewarded. I know it's a tough one. One can also say that it's a warning. Honestly this is one subject that I see great arguments either side. I just thank God and trust God that He will do with me what He says in His precious word.

Thanks Seeking,

God bless you!

Firstfruits

***Firstfruits*** · Jun 23rd 2009, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by RogerW

Greetings Markedward,

I agree, and now find myself wondering who would give up faith unto salvation? Is this possible since we are being kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation?

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Many Blessings,
RW

We know that God is faithful, however we are not always so. God does not force faith upon us, he does not make us believe. Hence the need for us to endure to the end.

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

God bless you!

Firstfruits

***Firefighter*** · Jun 23rd 2009, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Firstfruits

Even so, if they are already saved Jesus would not have said they needed to endure to the end to be saved.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

According to Pretrib/Dispy thought, their salvation is reliant upon enduring until the end of the tribulation.

***Firstfruits*** · Jun 23rd 2009, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Urban Missionary

According to Pretrib/Dispy thought, their salvation is reliant upon enduring until the end of the tribulation.

According to the following we would have to disagree that we receive our salvation when we get to Heaven.

1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

Reserved in heaven for you.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

***My heart's Desire*** · Jun 23rd 2009, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by markedward

Hebrews 9.28: ... so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

The author of Hebrews clearly says that Christ will "save those who are eagerly waiting for him" at his coming.

That's why I love this verse so much. Obviously it is those who know their sin was already dealt with at the Cross who will be eagerly waiting for Him at His coming. They know that they are saved and have no fear that Christ will reject them for any reason when He comes so they eagerly wait for Him.

***Firstfruits*** · Jun 23rd 2009, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by My heart's Desire

That's why I love this verse so much. Obviously it is those who know their sin was already dealt with at the Cross who will be eagerly waiting for Him at His coming. They know that they are saved and have no fear that Christ will reject them for any reason when He comes so they eagerly wait for Him.

The scripture says that he will save those that wait for him at his return:

Hebrews 9.28: ... so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

If we endure until he returns we know that we have no need to fear.

God bless you!

Firstfruits