But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved?

[Firstfruits]

Hi Sirus,

But is it wise to separate this faith from grace that saves? Grace and faith are part and parcel of the same package, we cannot have one without the other. Many think and even state we are saved by faith, and often even think that salvation is by faith through grace. Now its true we must have both grace and faith, but is it true that we are saved by faith through grace? That places the burden of salvation upon the faith of fallen man. It says show God your faith and He'll extend to you His grace. Not quite!

We are saved by grace 'through' faith that is not our own but part and parcel of the gift of God's grace, not of works lest any man should boast. Since the faith we receive unto salvation is part of the whole package, extending from God's grace, and being kept by the power of God...how can anyone receiving this gift of faith give it up?

Many blessings,
RW

If you have no faith no matter how much grace God may give us it will mean nothing.

Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

If you have faith you can receive Gods grace, how can we receive what we do not believe?

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Firstfruits]

Greetings Urban Missionary,

How could this happen to the one who has been saved by grace since Scripture promises "all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose" (Ro 8:28)? God does not force His will upon any man. He changes our will by giving us a new heart and His Spirit. So if someone who appears to have been born again turns away from God, I would have to conclude they had never truly been born again of the Spirit. Remember Scripture tells us that not every one who says to Him Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven (Mt 7:21).

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Eze 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Eze 11:21 But as for them whose heart walketh after the heart of their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their way upon their own heads, saith the Lord GOD.

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.



This is looking at predestination and election from a negative perspective. God didn't have to choose to save any man. None of us are deserving of God's mercy and grace. If God had not chosen to intervene in the hearts of some men, then no man would be saved. If no man would be saved then the whole creation for which God so loves would cease to exist. Man would finally altogether destroy everything that God created. Therefore God has determined in eternity, before creation to save a people for Himself. In this the world and all that He created will be preserved forever. No, God has chosen not to extend grace and faith to every man, but we have no right to question God about whom He chooses to show mercy and grace. He is the Potter, we the clay, He will have mercy and compassion on whosoever He wills.



This is not the way of salvation. Eternal life is not a free gift offered to be accepted or rejected. Eternal life is a free gift GIVEN to all who are given the gift of faith to believe. Since salvation beginning with regeneration, then sanctification and finally glorification is all the work of God through us, it is impossible for any to reject the gift of life GIVEN by God. What He begins He will complete until the final day.

Many Blessings,
RW

If faith is a gift then why does God not give it to all, so that we can all please him, or does God not want all men to please him?

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Firstfruits

[Redeemed by Grace]

With regards to the following scriptures if those that endure until the end are alraedy saved why then does Jesus say that they shall be saved or that they should endure to the end?

Mt 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

With the understanding that the disciples belonged to Christ why did they say that they will be saved.

Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Why should we wait until the end?

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Hi FF,

By context, each reference you chose to use deals with the end times [except Acts 15:11], specifically with the generation alive during the last days...

So if you start with Matthew 24:3 where the Disciples ask Jesus "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of (1) your coming, and (2) and of the end of the age?"

...and as you read through to verse 13, where Jesus continues with "...But the one who endures to the end [these times of great tribulation], he will be saved... [raptured]. And I say raptured because in verse 29 and forward, Jesus says "But immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. AND THEN, the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn [because they know the wrath of God is before them], and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great Trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other [The Rapture]

So most everywhere were you read 'enduing to the end', it is the the time and generation alive for when the last days begin and end, the 70th week.


Praise God!


For His glory...

RbG

[divaD]

By context, each reference you chose to use deals with the end times [except Acts 15:11], specifically with the generation
alive during the last days...

This is where I'm definately in agreement. I was going to post a reply on this very same thing...that the context was speaking about the end of time, right before Jesus returns. But after looking at Matt 10 a bit closer, it seems obvious that the context deals with the disciples and during their time period, yet at the same time, this ch seems to be talking about the same thing as Matt ch 24, where it seems obvious that the context is dealing with a time yet in the future. One thing is for certain, I can see why some might take a preterist approach to these passages.

[Firstfruits]

Hi FF,

By context, each reference you chose to use deals with the end times [except Acts 15:11], specifically with the generation alive during the last days...

So if you start with Matthew 24:3 where the Disciples ask Jesus "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of (1) your coming, and (2) and of the end of the age?"

...and as you read through to verse 13, where Jesus continues with "...But the one who endures to the end [these times of great tribulation], he will be saved... [raptured]. And I say raptured because in verse 29 and forward, Jesus says "But immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. AND THEN, the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn [because they know the wrath of God is before them], and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great Trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other [The Rapture]

So most everywhere were you read 'enduing to the end', it is the the time and generation alive for when the last days begin and end, the 70th week.


Praise God!


For His glory...

RbG

The reason it deals with the end time is because Jesus does not return until the end.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Firstfruits]

This is where I'm definately in agreement. I was going to post a reply on this very same thing...that the context was speaking about the end of time, right before Jesus returns. But after looking at Matt 10 a bit closer, it seems obvious that the context deals with the disciples and during their time period, yet at the same time, this ch seems to be talking about the same thing as Matt ch 24, where it seems obvious that the context is dealing with a time yet in the future. One thing is for certain, I can see why some might take a preterist approach to these passages.

Jesus does not return until the end, which is why we have to keep the faith until the end.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Redeemed by Grace]

This is where I'm definately in agreement. I was going to post a reply on this very same thing...that the context was speaking about the end of time, right before Jesus returns. But after looking at Matt 10 a bit closer, it seems obvious that the context deals with the disciples and during their time period, yet at the same time, this ch seems to be talking about the same thing as Matt ch 24, where it seems obvious that the context is dealing with a time yet in the future. One thing is for certain, I can see why some might take a preterist approach to these passages.

Prophetic scripture always hold to a near/far application... but it's the yet to come that brings the most Joy...

Come Lord Jesus, Come!

[Redeemed by Grace]

The reason it deals with the end time is because Jesus does not return until the end.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

That's right....

[Firstfruits]

Prophetic scripture always hold to a near/far application... but it's the yet to come that brings the most Joy...

Come Lord Jesus, Come!

It is the hope of his coming that we wait for.

Lk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Redeemed by Grace]

It is the hope of his coming that we wait for.

Lk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Those who are alive yes, but what if you die before He return... Does enduring to the end mean death or his return?

[Partaker of Christ]

Does keeping the word mean that we never sin, never doubt, never falter?

God bless you!

Firstfruits

It seems you doubt Jesus' own words.

Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Do you agree with Jesus, and believe that those who are good ground, keep the word?

[divaD]

Here's the way my brainless mind reasons this enduring to the end. First of all, in this case, I believe the meaning meant to be understood is based upon the context. The context of Matt 24 shows that it's talking about enduring to the end, in the end of days prior to Christ's return.

To further try and clarify my point, let me try this example.

There are 2 people. They both get saved. One of them lives 60 more yrs
after being saved. The other one gets killed in a car accident the following day. Clearly, if enduring to the end means keeping the faith until your dying breath, then the one that was killed one day after being saved, this person had no problem enduring to the end whatsoever. At least not like the one who lived 60 more yrs.

This is one reason that I feel, as in the case of Matt 24, enduring to the end is specifically related to not falling away, especially when the great trib commences, and when it becomes impossible to buy or sell without the mark. Matt 24 doesn't specifically tell us all of this, but it doesn't have to, because we know from other Scriptures that these are some of the things that will occur right before Christ returns.

[Firstfruits]

Those who are alive yes, but what if you die before He return... Does enduring to the end mean death or his return?

Yes that would be right, since we cannot be rewarded until his return.

Firstfruits

[Firstfruits]

It seems you doubt Jesus' own words.

Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Do you agree with Jesus, and believe that those who are good ground, keep the word?

I do not doubt the words of Christ however the problem is man and his ability not doubt and keep the word.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[divaD]

It seems you doubt Jesus' own words.

Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Do you agree with Jesus, and believe that those who are good ground, keep the word?

Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it and bring forth fruit with patience.


I personally think it's impossible for those that qualify for Luke 8:15
to lose their salvation. Not once does Jesus ever imply that they can lose their salvation. To do so, everything about this person would have to change, both on the inside and out. The way I look at it, when you've made it to the good ground, you've got it made, because nowhere does that parable imply that those on the good ground can lose their place. I still don't believe in OSAS tho, except in the case of these in Luke 8:15. Confusing isn't it?