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Thread: JESUS CHRIST And Sin.

  1. #1
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    JESUS CHRIST And Sin.

    When JESUS was on the cross and HE became sin did he become literal sin?

    Like you know people say, "You're lazy...if you looked lazy up in the dictionary your picture would be right next to it."

    So when JESUS became sin was it like that? If you looked up sin would you find JESUS' picture next to it(of course not literal! The looking in the dictionary,that is)

    Thanks for the answers in advanced.
    GOD bless!!
    9For zeal for Your house has consumed me,
    And the reproaches of those who reproach You have fallen on me.
    Psalm 69:9

    4 You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
    James 4:4

    19 You believe that God is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder
    James 2:19

    "5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." Genesis 6:5

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadToSelf View Post
    When JESUS was on the cross and HE became sin did he become literal sin?

    Like you know people say, "You're lazy...if you looked lazy up in the dictionary your picture would be right next to it."

    So when JESUS became sin was it like that? If you looked up sin would you find JESUS' picture next to it(of course not literal! The looking in the dictionary,that is)

    Thanks for the answers in advanced.
    GOD bless!!
    Jesus bore our sins on the cross. Hanging on wood you are rejected from earth and from heaven. That is where He was, but he did not BECOME sin by taking it all upon himself.

    Much like a mother not becoming the child that she bore and brought into life.

    Anton
    השייך לאלוהים דרך ישו

  3. #3
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    Well because I stumbled upon this,

    II Corinthians 5:21

    "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

    It says "be" as, HE became sin for us. I looked at other translations and they all said something along the lines of, "to be sin".

    So that's why I was asking.
    9For zeal for Your house has consumed me,
    And the reproaches of those who reproach You have fallen on me.
    Psalm 69:9

    4 You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
    James 4:4

    19 You believe that God is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder
    James 2:19

    "5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." Genesis 6:5

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    well cursed is he who hangs on a tree...

    I think it was at the point that Jesus asked God, Why have you forsaken me? simply because God cannot bear to look upon iniquity and all of the iniquity of the world was placed upon him... but it's not important that we know when... it's important to know that it happened...
    The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

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    I know the scripture and I know what happened. I just want to known if HE became sin. Not a sinner like us, cause that would mean we sin, but sin.
    9For zeal for Your house has consumed me,
    And the reproaches of those who reproach You have fallen on me.
    Psalm 69:9

    4 You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
    James 4:4

    19 You believe that God is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder
    James 2:19

    "5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." Genesis 6:5

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadToSelf View Post
    Well because I stumbled upon this,

    II Corinthians 5:21

    "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

    It says "be" as, HE became sin for us. I looked at other translations and they all said something along the lines of, "to be sin".

    So that's why I was asking.
    I do not believe that Jesus transformed or became "sin" or "sickness" on the the Cross. I also don't believe that God poured our punishment for sin onto Jesus to satisfy His justice. I have heard many moving sermons based on these though, and I am not dogmatic against viewing how Jesus accomplished His victory in these terms.

    I think all of the above can be explained in Jesus becoming a man knowing the mortality of sinful flesh, and His suffering of death, the wages or consequence of sin. Thus Jesus' death comforms to being made sin, but it would not have been on our behalf if Jesus was actually sin because then death would have achieved victory. But because Jesus was NOT sin death had no claim on Him and thus He achieved victory over sin and death in His resurrection.

    Here are some verses to consider:

    Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

    3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


    Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
    ...
    14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

    15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

    16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

    17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

    18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
    ...
    Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

    15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

    16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
    ...
    Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
    ...
    26 ... but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

    27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

    28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


    God Bless!
    Watchinginawe

    I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

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    sin is not a thing that he could become -sin

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    Help me out here

    OK guys n' gals:
    I'm up to your ideas that Jesus didn't "become sin" for us...

    If that is true then what does II Cor 5:21 really mean then?

    BTW, the Greek is fairly straight forward, no?
    gr

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Rake View Post
    OK guys n' gals:
    I'm up to your ideas that Jesus didn't "become sin" for us...

    If that is true then what does II Cor 5:21 really mean then?

    BTW, the Greek is fairly straight forward, no?
    gr

    II Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.



    Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


    I think that Romans 8:3-4 is near a near equivalent to II Corinthians 5:21. Jesus was conceived in Mary as a man, in the likeness of sinful (or condemned) flesh. But instead of sin condemning Jesus to death, Jesus submitted to death without sin, and thus condemned sin in the flesh. Jesus did this deliberately and on our behalf, for the purpose of releasing us from the bondage of sin (death).

    Read through the other scriptures that I posted in the thread. I think they expand the thought significantly.

    God Bless!
    Watchinginawe

    I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Rake View Post
    OK guys n' gals:
    I'm up to your ideas that Jesus didn't "become sin" for us...

    If that is true then what does II Cor 5:21 really mean then?

    BTW, the Greek is fairly straight forward, no?
    gr
    Jesus took on our sin.
    ALL our sin.
    The sin of the whole world was laid on him ,that day.
    He who was sinless, willingly laid down his life to pay for our sin.
    He paid the debt, I could not pay.

    In his great love, he went to the cross in our place, we deserved to go there, but his love took him there, in our place.
    No greater love hath any man than to lay down his life for another.

    Guess it might be somewhat like his taking our place on death row,going to the the electric chair, taking our penalty to set us free.
    He had to be sinless, or he would have had to die for his own sin, but being not guilty of sin, he
    had the right and willingness to take our place.
    How can we totally understand such love?

  11. #11
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    An alternate translation for 2 Corinthians 5:21 says: "God made him who had no sin to be a sin offering for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

    This seems to line up more with the rest of Scripture than the idea of Jesus becoming "sin".
    You were made to think. It will do you good to think; to develop your powers by study. God designed that religion should require thought, intense thought, and should thoroughly develop our powers of thought.

    Charles G Finney



    http://holyrokker.blogspot.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadToSelf View Post
    When JESUS was on the cross and HE became sin did he become literal sin?

    Like you know people say, "You're lazy...if you looked lazy up in the dictionary your picture would be right next to it."

    So when JESUS became sin was it like that? If you looked up sin would you find JESUS' picture next to it(of course not literal! The looking in the dictionary,that is)

    Thanks for the answers in advanced.
    GOD bless!!
    ... About the only way to get a good grip on this subject is to study the Mosaic Law and the sacrifices of the Old Testament. One can read the New Testament from now until the end of Eternity and still not get their head wrapped around this topic, in it's fullness. The short answer is yes, He became sin in the same manor that we are sin. Many of these phrases, in English, have their origin in the Kings English of 1611. The problem comes with using the same words or phrases today without going back t the original, in this case, Greek to translate and understand.
    ... One of the best examples is the phrase in Genesis when God sends Adam and Eve forth to replenish the earth. Without knowledge of the ancient English of 1611 this verse tells Adam to be very fruitful and to replace the missing peoples that have, mysteriously, disappeared. In the old Kings English it could mean the same thing or it could and does mean to go forth and to populate the earth. What I am, lamely, perhaps, trying to point out is that,without Jesus, we are sin in the eyes of God because we are born into it, we are raised in it and we live sinful lives until we make the decision to begin living the Spiritual Life by allowing Jesus to live through us.
    ... Short of buying a copy of the Nave's Topical and doing a thorough study I do not know what else to say but I pray that this will help you.

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    2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
    This has a twofold meaning. Others have well pointed out that he took our sin upon him for reconciliation (v19-20), but in the surrounding verses, Paul also tell us what he told us in other epistles as well. That we are dead to sin by the body of Christ that was crucified so that the body of sin would be destroyed, because sin brings forth death. He crucified our flesh from which lusts comes, therefore we being dead, are free from sin and dead to sin. He died with and for our sin so we could die to sin (v14).
    2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
    2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
    2Co 5:12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
    Here, Paul warns of judgment for sin (contrasting good or bad -think good and bad tree). Then he says 'we are made manifest to God', which would be the good as opposed to bad. Think 'fruit unto holiness'. This he says is an answer to those that are religious hypocrites. The gospel can do what the law could not -free man from sin because the body of sin was crucified. This is accomplished in the same act of Christ taking sin to the cross. It is forgiveness of sin and victory over sin for those that walk by faith in what Christ has done for us and to us. Christ and him crucified, with us in him.
    2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
    2Co 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
    2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
    2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
    ..........
    2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
    2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
    Don't receive the complete and finished work of Christ in vain. Be a good tree that bears good fruit. Don't be as those that glory in appearance.
    2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
    2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
    2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
    2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

  14. #14
    Strong's G266 - hamartia - him [to be] sin

    This word relates Christ to be without a share in sin, yet He bore it upon Himself divinely so that we would not die in it.

  15. #15
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    Still have the same ???

    Ok guys and gals, here we go. First of all let’s define what “to be sin” is at least according to Strongs. Strongs…G266

    a) to be without a share in
    b) to miss the mark
    c) to err, be mistaken
    d) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
    e) violate God's law, sin

    • that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act
    • collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many


    So, Walrus, your phrase, “This word relates Christ to be without a share in sin…” doesn’t seem to be a correct understanding of the word “harmatia”. For me, I can’t see how you derived that conclusion from those words. Of course He didn't sin himself. But the scripture says "God made Him 'to be'" sin.

    Dear Watching, I have read all of your verses and still can’t see any correlation to them and the “to be sin” phrase. They are nice verses and speak to many of the issues of the Christian life in general. And no the Romans 8:3-4 passages to me at least, are not a parallel at all to II Cor 5:21.

    Seems to me that no one yet has answered the question…”WHAT DOES “MADE HIM TO BE SIN” REALLY MEAN.

    Why are we having such a hard time accepting scripture for what it says? When Jesus said “I am the way and the truth and the Life,” we all accept it forthwith.



    What is it about this phrase that has so many people jacked up? Seems pretty clear to me that it means just what it says. If we can’t quite figure it out or haven’t made it fit clearly into our theology yet, well that’s another issue. Maybe we need to adjust our theology a bit.

    But it does clearly say that God made Jesus "to be sin for us." Yes he did take our place. Yes we should have died. All that is true but doesn’t seem to me to answer the question.

    BTW, when Jesus said “My God why have you forsaken me?” What did he mean? Why would the Father forsake him if he weren’t the embodiment of sin? If God didn’t make Him to be sin for us then why would the Father have had to forsake him?


    Hmmmm






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