Let's be Children again

[timmyb]

When one studies the Bible in the manner of an apologist. I find that people use the term 'interpretation' of a verse alot. I find this uncomfortable and very disheartening.

Why? Simply look at the definition of the word interpretation.

1 : the act or the result of interpreting : explanation 2 : a particular adaptation or version of a work, method, or style 3 : a teaching technique that combines factual with stimulating explanatory information <natural history interpretation program>

when someone interprets a verse, they almost imply that it was written in another language and when something is interpreted it is often up to the person interpreting to decide what the meaning is.

As an apologist I believe there is only ONE interpretation of Scripture, the Holy Spirit and he alone can accurately 'interpret' the scripture. We often forget the Bible was written for the intellectually inferior in the eyes of the educated. Out of the mouths of babes and infants he ordains strength, and mysteries are given to children. We often get sidetracked and lose the reality that our doctrines are subject to the scriptures instead of the other way around. So often we are blinded by pride and we refuse to be taught and to listen to one another our discussions are often riddled with arrogant statements and laced with sarcasm and pride.

So often I find that when we study the Bible we are often incensed in conversations that have nothing to do with the purpose of studying the Bible, to know God.

For example: I find people wanting to know what Paul's 'thorn in the flesh' was in 2 Corinthians 12 when in the end no one will really know and it really doesn't matter. What we often miss is the most powerful part of the exchange between Jesus and Paul when he told Paul 'my grace is sufficient' and as a result of trying to find out 'what' we lose the whole context of what Paul was trying to tell the church.

So when we are trying to prove the infallibility of the word and it's being thrown back at us, It's crucial to remember that most of the world was uneducated and that all believers have the Holy Spirit who teaches all things living inside of us. And we have each other and others who came before us to guide us.

But first and foremost, if your Bible study and End Times study isn't producing love and friendship for God, then it's a waste of time and you're just adding Knowledge that puffs up instead of love that edifies.

So let's be babes and infants again.

[poppa_50]

How literal do you take Jesus' words in Matt. 26-28? Is communion a meal of simple remembrance as the Baptists say or an active offer of forgiveness as Lutherans say? Are they both right without giving offense to the other? I hope so in some miraculous way because they are never going to agree.

[crawfish]

We must approach scripture with the humility of a child, but even scripture supports deeper, more mature study:

Hebrews 5: 11-14
We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

The gist is, you approach scripture with openness to the Spirit and not with preconceived notions. Let the Spirit speak to you through scripture, don't try to prove what you think you already know. But you should study as a mature adult, fully with all the faculties God has given you.

[timmyb]

How literal do you take Jesus' words in Matt. 26-28? Is communion a meal of simple remembrance as the Baptists say or an active offer of forgiveness as Lutherans say? Are they both right without giving offense to the other? I hope so in some miraculous way because they are never going to agree.

i just take Jesus at his word... do this in remembrance of him... i do it as a constant reminder of his sacrifice which makes it something i can do everyday...

the reality is one of them is right and both need to repent for their pride

[poppa_50]

i just take Jesus at his word... do this in remembrance of him... i do it as a constant reminder of his sacrifice which makes it something i can do everyday...

the reality is one of them is right and both need to repent for their pride

Was Jesus right or did he mispeak when he talked about forgiveness of sins? I would bet a flying donut your church doesn't accept such "easy" literal interpretation. Ask yourself why they don't.

I would rather have the pride of taking His words as true than not.

[timmyb]

Was Jesus right or did he mispeak when he talked about forgiveness of sins? I would bet a flying donut your church doesn't accept such "easy" literal interpretation. Ask yourself why they don't.

I would rather have the pride of taking His words as true than not.

could you give me something i can build off of? I am by no means a proponent of gracious lasciviousness.

gimme a hand here bro

[Athanasius]

when someone interprets a verse, they almost imply that it was written in another language and when something is interpreted it is often up to the person interpreting to decide what the meaning is.

I understand what you're saying, especially when you use Paul's 'thorn in the flesh' as an illustration. However, in my opinion your post is non-sequitur from premise to conclusion; it simply does not follow.

Firstly, dictionary definitions are fine but they aren't the be all and end all. For example, you chose definition #2 of the word 'interpretation' whereas you could have just as easily chosen definitions #1 and #3, which I believe are more suited to the field of biblical interpretation. Secondly, Scripture was written in another language (three, no?). Thirdly, interpretation is a necessary act whether you interpret from language A to language B or simply read the text, either in its original language or in a translation. Fourthly, the doctrine is sola scriptura not solo scriptura. Whether or not scripture was written with the 'intellectually inferior' in mind (which I'm not so sure, hence the plethora of biblical views) is important, but nevertheless a bit of a non-issue. It might do the lay-person little good if I wrote a Ph.D level exegesis of the book of Romans (which is most certainly possible), however, if that exegesis does not contradict scripture, but actually compliments it, then there is nothing wrong with that... Other than it being a specialized piece of literature.

That's not to say I completely disagree with you on a few of the other things you say.

[moonglow]

When I was a child, I thought there was a little tiny Jesus that lived in a little tiny temple inside of my heart...for real...

I also thought 'gambling' was wrong in regards to the story of the stewards all being given a certain amount of money...two invested it and raised the amount they were originally given, while the third hid his under the floor. I thought the third one was right..and didn't understand the harsh scolding he got when their master returned...

As a child I took everything in the bible very literally and couldn't understand the deeper lessons being taught.

But I understand your frustrations for sure...

Matthew 18:2-4 (New King James Version)

2 Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, 3 and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Adam Clarke's bible commentary:

Verse 3. Except ye be converted
Unless ye be saved from those prejudices which are at present so baneful to your nation, (seeking a temporal and not a spiritual kingdom,) unless ye be clothed with the spirit of humility, ye cannot enter into the spirit, design, and privileges of my spiritual and eternal kingdom. The name of this kingdom should put you in mind of its nature.-1. The KING is heavenly; 2. His SUBJECTS are heavenly-minded; 3. Their COUNTRY is heavenly, for they are strangers and pilgrims upon earth; 4. The GOVERNMENT of this kingdom is wholly spiritual and divine. See on Matthew 3:2.

And become as little children
i.e. Be as truly without worldly ambition, and the lust of power, as little children are, who act among themselves as if all were equal. The following saying from the Boostan of the poet Saady is very appropriate. "The hearts of infants being free from avarice, what care they for a handful of silver more than for a handful of dust?"

Verse 4. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself
So great is the disparity between the kingdom of Christ and the kingdoms of this world, that there is no way of rising to honours in the former, but by humility of mind, and continual self-abasement.

God bless

[timmyb]

We must approach scripture with the humility of a child, but even scripture supports deeper, more mature study:

Hebrews 5: 11-14
We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

The gist is, you approach scripture with openness to the Spirit and not with preconceived notions. Let the Spirit speak to you through scripture, don't try to prove what you think you already know. But you should study as a mature adult, fully with all the faculties God has given you.

I like this.. Jesus even told his disciples to be as harmless as doves and as shrewd as serpents... very good point...

and when we come to the word, we need to come knowing nothing of our own, and to let our doctrines be subject to the scriptures, and let the scriptures and the spirit be the teachers

very good crawfish