noone has ever seen "The Father", because He is Spirit only.
At the time of Moses and the Exodus, Jesus hadnt yet been bodily incarnated, therefore noone had at that time, seen God. Again no conflict.
"Christ is all" Col 3:11
noone has ever seen "The Father", because He is Spirit only.
At the time of Moses and the Exodus, Jesus hadnt yet been bodily incarnated, therefore noone had at that time, seen God. Again no conflict.
<--Bluebird of Happiness
In Genesis, where it tells us about the tower of Babel...
Genesis 11:1-9
1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar.
4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 [B]Go to, let us go down[/B], and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
Don't you ever wonder was God talking to himself when he said Let US go down...?
My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16
"Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)
"Christ is all" Col 3:11
A better example is Genesis 1:26; which rules out 'us' being any created being or heavenly host-type creature.Originally Posted by Diggindeeper
Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image 27 So God created man in his own image"
Here the 'us' is specifically applied solely to God Almighty, the Creator.
No created being can be included in the 'us' verses.
<--Bluebird of Happiness
I agree...that is the best example! Can't leave any doubt whatever.
My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16
"Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)
המשיח הגיע בבשר
Moses saw YWVH face to face and that was literal,was it not? Like so many others I see you resorting to interpreting certain scriptures as figurative metaphors when they contradict your position and then defining others in a literal way when they appear to support it. John was not defining "seeing God' in the same way you are and I have proven this from presenting the numerous places where God was seen. The fact that Moses saw YHVH face to face and spoke with him as a man does his friend is undeniable proof.
Lord,one thing I ask...use me for your glory.
Coffee Break
***
That Jesus is not YHWH (the four transliterated letters of the Tetragrammaton) or Jehovah God, can be seen from the account at Luke 4. Jesus enters a synagogue, standing up to read, upon which the "scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed him." He finds the place where it is written (at Isaiah 61:1, 2): "Jehovah's spirit is upon me (not my spirit), because he (not me) anointed me to declare good news to the poor, he (not me) sent me forth to preach a release to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away with a release, to preach Jehovah's (not mine) acceptable year."(Luke 4:17-19)
When speaking with the Jews, Jesus told them: "What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or ("or" Greek e) I speak of my own originality."(John 7:16, 17) Jesus identifies that what he taught is not his, but God's.
At Matthew 12:18, God says of Jesus: "Look! My servant whom I chose, my beloved, whom my soul approved ! I will put my spirit upon him, and what justice is he will make clear to the nations." Jehovah God calls Jesus "my servant", whom he was pleased with, for Jesus told the Jews that "I always do the things pleasing to him."(John 8:29) And Jesus told Nicodemus that he is "the only-begotten Son of God", not God.(John 3:16) Hence, this is evidence that Jesus is not God or YHWH, Jehovah, but his Son, plain and simple.
Coffee Break
It is incredibly obvious that many people are confounded by the fact that Jesus is part of the Godhead, all the while taking on humanity and the role of son and obedient servant, that we may emulate Him. How sad it is that people in their confusion conjure up their own ideas and try to pass them off as truth.
Posting Freak
Hello guestman,
This is indeed a difficult topic, but the insertion of your questions in the above does not answer the question. (And your questions only assume that your answers are correct.) But did Jesus not also say, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”[John 8:58]?
I do not think you are going to blow off Jesus' deity with your own comments, when there are so many of His own which stand against yours.
Coffee Break
***
That Jesus is not God is not a difficult topic, but one that must be understood in order to serve God properly. Jesus is "a god", a deity, but not "the God" or "true God". Jesus in prayer to his Father called him "the only true God"(John 17:3, King James Bible)
Many try to use John 8:58 according to the King James Bible to connect this with Exodus 3:14 also of the King James Bible whereby God is said to have explained the meaning of his name as "I AM." However, did Jesus say "I am" (Greek ego eimi) so as to connect with Exodus 3:14 ? In a word No.
If you were to look carefully and honestly at the latter part of John 8, you will see that the Jews were questioning how Jesus could of have seen Abraham since, according to their words "you are not yet fifty years old."(John 8:57) In their eyes, it was a matter of how old Jesus was not who he was. Hence, Jesus responded: "Before Abraham came into existence, I have been."(John 8:58, New World Translation)
Over 1000 years before the King James Bible was prepared, there were several ancient manuscripts that rendered John 8:58 as:
(1) "before Abraham was, I have been” (Fourth/Fifth century -Syriac-Edition:A Translation of the Four Gospels from the Syriac of the Sinaitic Palimpsest, by Agnes Smith Lewis, London, 1894),
(2) “before ever Abraham, came to be, I was" (Fifth Century, Curetonian Syriac-Edition:The Curetonian Version of the Four Gospels, by F.Crawford Burkitt, Vol. 1, Cambridge, England, 1904),
(3) "before Abraham existed, I was" (Fifth century, Syriac Pesh itta-Edition:The Syriac New Testament Translated into English from the Pesh itto Version, by James Murdock, seventh ed., Boston and London, 1896),
(4) "before Abraham came to be, I was" (Fifth century, Georgian-Edition:“The Old Georgian Version of the Gospel of John,” by Robert P. Blake and Maurice Brière, published in Patrologia Orientalis, Vol. XXVI, fascicle 4, Paris, 1950),
(5) "before Abraham was born, I was"(Sixth century, Ethiopic-Edition:Novum Testamentum . . .Æthiopice (The New Testament . . . in Ethiopic), by Thomas Pell Platt, revised by F. Praetorius, Leipzig, 1899).
In addition, at Exodus 3:14, the Hebrew is ’Eh·yeh´ ’Asher´ ’Eh·yeh´ and in which some translations (such as the King James Bible) render this as “I AM THAT I AM.” However, it is to be noted that the Hebrew verb ha·yah´, from which the word ’Eh·yeh´ is drawn, does not mean simply “be.” Rather, it means “become,” or “prove to be.” Hence, the Hebrew Eh·yeh´ ’Asher´ ’Eh·yeh´ that God stated concerning his name, more accurately means "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE."
As a sidenote, if what Jesus said at John 8:58 really meant "I am" and pointed toward Exodus 3:14 as saying that Jesus is God, then the "man born blind" at John 9 is also God, for when questions were asked regarding whether or not he was the same one that now could see, he simply replied: "I am" (John 9:9, Greek ego eimi), the same exact words as Jesus at John 8:58. But the King James Bible adds the word "he" to the end of his words, to read "I am he". Why then did they not do the same with Jesus words ? One word, bias, toward the trinity.
Coffee Break
How can Jesus be a god when there is no other gods but God Himself? No---Jesus is the I Am. The Watchtower people have very poor understanding of Hebrew, so we cannot put any trust in anything they say concerning God's word, which they systematically corrupt.
Posting Freak
This is wrong on so many levels that I am not going to respond to it. Neither will I comment again in any fashion in this thread.
Coffee Break
***
Have you not read 1 Corinthians 8:5, 6, whereby it reads: "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many), But to us there is but one God, the Father (not the Son), of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ (who is the Son), by whom are all things, and we by him."(King James Bible)
Coffee Break
Yes, there are no gods but God Himself. What we call gods are nothing but idols and false gods.
Coffee Break
***
There is only one Almighty God, for Genesis 17:1 says: "When A′bram got to be ninety-nine years old, then Jehovah appeared to A′bram and said to him: “I am God Almighty. Walk before me and prove yourself faultless." Hence, as Jesus said of his Father, that "you, the only true God".(John 17:3) Jehovah is "the only true God", the "Creator of the heavens and the Grand One stretching them out; the One laying out the earth and its produce, the One giving breath to the people on it, and spirit to those walking in it."(Isa 42:5)
However, there are other gods, as for example the judges of Israel were called as such at Psalms 82:1. Satan is called "the god of this system of things" at 2 Corinthians 4:4.
Coffee Break
Jesus shares in the status of the Almighty:
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
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