Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christ and the Gospel

[doug3]

There is a lot wrong with the Watchtower Organization, as is well documented in these forums and in numerous testimonies, books and web sites. I would be among the first to say this, as I have made plain in posts in various threads, which is why I stopped associating with my local congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses at the beginning of 2006 after about 18 months of fellowshipping with them. However, the claim made by many that they deny Christ and the Gospel is just not correct.

If you speak to any individual Jehovah’s Witness about their faith you will find that they recognize Jesus Christ as the Son of the Living God (Mat 16:16, Joh 6.69), that He died for our sins so that we could have fellowship with God through Him leading to eternal life (Joh 3:16; Rom 5:1; 1Tim 2:5) and that Jesus Christ is Head of the Church (Eph 5.23; Col 1.18; Col 2:19). They will recognize the importance of personal prayer and a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. They will probably differ with you (and me) on just about everything else that the bible says, but they recognize these fundamentals which are the very basis of our faith.

For me that is enough to consider them as Christian brothers and sisters (who are clearly in need of guidance).

“For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.” (Rom 10:2 AV-KJV 1769)

[David Taylor]

beginning of 2006 after about 18 months of fellowshipping with them. However, the claim made by many that they deny Christ and the Gospel is just not correct.

They deny Jesus Christ is God.

The "jesus" of the Watchtower is a different jesus than the Jesus of the Bible and Christianity...a different jesus, a created being that can't save them from their sins.

If you speak to any individual Jehovah’s Witness about their faith you will find that they recognize Jesus Christ as the Son of the Living God (Mat 16:16, Joh 6.69), that He died for our sins

For me that is enough to consider them as Christian brothers and sisters (who are clearly in need of guidance).

The Jesus of Christianity that Christians believe in, is God the Creator, not a created being.

Salvation come from God, not a created being.

The true Jesus of Christianity said He is the Great I AM!

Genesis 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, I AM hath sent me unto you.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and thou hast seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. Then took they up stones to cast at him"

John 6:51 I AM the living bread which came down from heaven

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I AM from above: ye are of this world; I AM not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM he, ye shall die in your sins.

JW's can't find salvation in a false jesus of the Watchtower's Making who isn' t the Great I AM.

There is hope Doug, however, for all JWs.
The true Jesus is waiting, welcoming them to repent, turn from the Watchtower, and come to Him...the true Savior.

[decrumpit]

They will probably differ with you (and me) on just about everything else that the bible says, but they recognize these fundamentals which are the very basis of our faith.

Actually, they don't.

The "ransom" of Jesus is what saves them. They have completely severed their ties with the Church for the last 2000 years.

They also make many bizarre prophecies (read: predictions about the end of the world) and demand bizarre things (i.e. no blood transfusions).

“For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.” (Rom 10:2 AV-KJV 1769)

The nation of Israel spent their days expecting and yearning for the truth. This verse applies to those Jews who wanted to know the fulfillment of the Law.

Those who willingly ignore the truth well after God gave it to them are in need of God's love and mercy.

[doug3]

Actually, they don't.

The "ransom" of Jesus is what saves them. They have completely severed their ties with the Church for the last 2000 years

.
I thought recognizing it and accepting it was what saved me:

“9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” (Ro 10:9-10 AV-KJV 1769



The Jehovah's Witnesses started as the Bible Students, led by Charles Russel, in the late 19th century; hardly 2000 years ago. They became the Jehovah's Witnesses in the early 1920's after an internal split.

They also make many bizarre prophecies (read: predictions about the end of the world) and demand bizarre things (i.e. no blood transfusions).

Yes, which is why getting involved with then is so dangerous.

Quote:
“For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.” (Rom 10:2 AV-KJV 1769)

The nation of Israel spent their days expecting and yearning for the truth. This verse applies to those Jews who wanted to know the fulfillment of the Law.

And it also applies to them. They are zealous for God, but not according to knowledge.

Those who willingly ignore the truth well after God gave it to them are in need of God's love and mercy.

And ours. There are much greater evils out there.

[X-Rez]

No JW ever told you not to accept a blood transfusion ! Ive been JW my whole life , and nobody ever told me that. You may take whatever you want, as can i, but if you want to know the bibles view, and how God feels about the use of blood, you have to consider what the bible says.

If the bible says nothing on the subject, thats one thing, but IF the bible speaks against it, dont you agree that it would be important to consult it JUST IN CASE YOU MIGHT BE OFFENDING GOD !?

- 1st off, in the hebrew scriptures Gods people NEVER ate any kind of blood. God OUTLINED that the blood was to be poured out. Only pagan nations ate animals ALONG WITH ITS BLOOD.

Gen 9 says...

3Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. 4But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

lev 17 :11 12

10And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people. 11For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. 12Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood. 13And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.

Even after the old law passed away, Jesus followers restated the rule, which indicated that Gods view had not changed !

acts 15: 28,29

28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled (not bled), and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

consumption of blood is as serious as fornication. Thats why they are catergorized together.

Because BLOOD is considered sacred, and represents life, God placed STRICT RULES ABOUT IT.

Eph 1:7

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

So its untrue, to say that JWs made up this rule. THE BIBLE MADE THIS RULE, not us !

[doug3]

They deny Jesus Christ is God.

The "jesus" of the Watchtower is a different jesus than the Jesus of the Bible and Christianity...a different jesus, a created being that can't save them from their sins.




The Jesus of Christianity that Christians believe in, is God the Creator, not a created being.

Salvation come from God, not a created being.

The true Jesus of Christianity said He is the Great I AM!

Genesis 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, I AM hath sent me unto you.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and thou hast seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. Then took they up stones to cast at him"

John 6:51 I AM the living bread which came down from heaven

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I AM from above: ye are of this world; I AM not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM he, ye shall die in your sins.

JW's can't find salvation in a false jesus of the Watchtower's Making who isn' t the Great I AM.

There is hope Doug, however, for all JWs.
The true Jesus is waiting, welcoming them to repent, turn from the Watchtower, and come to Him...the true Savior.

If that interpretation of these verses is correct, why does the Apostle Paul not include the requirement of believing Jesus to be I AM (YHWH) into his definition in Romans 10:9.10 of what it takes to be saved:

“9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” (Ro 10:9-10 AV-KJV 1769)

Are there any other verses that clearly state that a person must believe Jesus Christ is I AM (YHWH) to gain salvation?

Yes, there is always hope.

[decrumpit]

The Jehovah's Witnesses started as the Bible Students, led by Charles Russel, in the late 19th century; hardly 2000 years ago. They became the Jehovah's Witnesses in the early 1920's after an internal split.

Sorry if that seemed confusing.

What I wanted to say was that the JWs started believing things in the 1800s and 1920s that were a complete break with the Christianity of the last 2000 years.

And it also applies to them. They are zealous for God, but not according to knowledge.

There is always an amount of knowledge that is required for faith. Our faith cannot be reduced to knowledge, but without knowledge there is no faith.

People can be sincerely WRONG.

And ours. There are much greater evils out there.

And yet how many Christians do you know who abandon the church for Satanism? How many forsake the Bible to follow the Quran?

I personally know that JWs are extremely aggressive in their "ministries" to their fellow Christians. Good is the enemy of perfection.

[David Taylor]

If that interpretation of these verses is correct, why does the Apostle Paul not include the requirement of believing Jesus to be I AM (YHWH) into his definition in Romans 10:9.10 of what it takes to be saved:

Are there any other verses that clearly state that a person must believe Jesus Christ is I AM (YHWH) to gain salvation?

Paul spoke with the implied understanding that the Jesus he was referring to was the true Jesus, the Great I AM that the scriptures speak of.

Paul wasn't leaving wiggle room for a later 19th century organization called the Watchtower B&TS to rise up and present a different "jesus" of their own making to attempt to apply Romans 10 over.

Yes Romans 10's confession is a clear statement involving salvation, but if it is applied to Captain Kangaroo, Mohammad, Elvis, or any modern-day jesus of some groups making, it has no power and effect. It is applicable only to the true Jesus of the Bible, who Himself is the Great I AM.

[th1bill]

If that interpretation of these verses is correct, why does the Apostle Paul not include the requirement of believing Jesus to be I AM (YHWH) into his definition in Romans 10:9.10 of what it takes to be saved:

“9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” (Ro 10:9-10 AV-KJV 1769)

Are there any other verses that clearly state that a person must believe Jesus Christ is I AM (YHWH) to gain salvation?

Yes, there is always hope.

... doug3, there were many Jesus' in the time that Jesus presented Himself as the Messiah and as I have learned in the past 18+ years of study there were others claiming to be the Messiah also. What the identity of the Jesus you believe in is critical. The Jesus that the JWs believe in has o power, let alone the power to save anyone. The New World Translation has so convoluted the scriptures until their translation is a lie. It is very much like the passages that cover Jesus' return to His hometown. Ther He did not do may miracles because there was little faith in Him. Faith in the correct Jesus is essential because not all of them are the Christ.

[cowboy_tech]

If I remember right, JW's do not believe in the physical resurrection of Christ. They also do not believe in a literal hell of fire and brimstone. Am I correct?

[David Taylor]

If I remember right, JW's do not believe in the physical resurrection of Christ. They also do not believe in a literal hell of fire and brimstone. Am I correct?

True. Jesus was spiritually raised; and he also has already performed the 2nd Coming.

It happened, according to one of their early leaders Charles Taze Russell, in 1914 invisibly and in spirit.

Many folks know that the Watchtower teaches that only 144K will get to go to heaven. However, not many of them DO NOT know that the Watchtower taught that in the 1950s, the 144K number was completed and finished.

You are also right that they reject Hell. They believe for those who didn't make the 144K in Heaven, they will have an eternal paradise on Earth.

Those who reject the Watchtower teachings though, will not make the Earthen paradise, but will be annihilated, and snuffed out of existence.

[GreekAsianPanda]

There's another thing about Jehovah's Witnesses' view of Jesus...They think he's Michael the archangel. They also don't believe Jesus rose bodily from the dead. I don't really know why people consider JW as a denomination of Christianity. That makes no sense to me.

[doug3]

Thank you all for you input.

[salesman]

If I remember right, JW's do not believe in the physical resurrection of Christ. They also do not believe in a literal hell of fire and brimstone. Am I correct?

I with a JW, and he has tried to show me an interesting "fact" about the concept that life is the gift of God. Because our existence is a gift, therefore there is no hell, because the unrepentant that do not accept the gift will be destroyed and have no further existence.

[Ryan R]

If that interpretation of these verses is correct, why does the Apostle Paul not include the requirement of believing Jesus to be I AM (YHWH) into his definition in Romans 10:9.10 of what it takes to be saved:

“9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” (Ro 10:9-10 AV-KJV 1769)

Are there any other verses that clearly state that a person must believe Jesus Christ is I AM (YHWH) to gain salvation?

Yes, there is always hope.

Yes, Paul warns us of believing in any Jesus that is not consistent in every way with all of scripture, including that Jesus is the I AM:

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." (2 Corinthians 3,4).

Any Jesus that is inconsistent with scripture is not the Jesus nor the gospel that Paul and the apostles preached and is therefore the beguiling of the serpent.

Paul didn't need to take clarity away from his point of the simplicity of the gospel of salvation by bogging it down with unnecessary qualifications. It is intuitive to state that the Jesus you put your faith in for eternal salvation would have to be consistent with the rest of scripture.

If someone believed in a man named Jesus who was Hindu (as a generic example of any other religion) or homosexual or a murderer it obviously wouldn't be the true Jesus, the only begotten Son of the One True God. There are no exceptions to the simple truth of salvation and either it's Him you believe in or it's not, and the only way to know him is through scripture:

"Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 john 4:1).

"For it is: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there." (Isaiah 28:10)