Why are stories of little children dying supposed to be "inspirational"?

**BluePlastic** · Jul 23rd 2009, 05:28 AM

Watchinginawe: So, the meaning of that passage is that Jesus wants us to be ignorant and not understand what anything really means or implies, like a little kid who doesn't know any better? I would have thought it would mean that he appreciated the humble nature of children, and their natural thirst for knowledge, which I have in abundance. I want to understand things. I'm ready to be taught. I'm not going to be happy in ignorance, nor should I be.

***watchinginawe*** · Jul 23rd 2009, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by BluePlastic

Watchinginawe: So, the meaning of that passage is that Jesus wants us to be ignorant and not understand what anything really means or implies, like a little kid who doesn't know any better? I would have thought it would mean that he appreciated the humble nature of children, and their natural thirst for knowledge, which I have in abundance. I want to understand things. I'm ready to be taught. I'm not going to be happy in ignorance, nor should I be.

No, not ignorance, but rather believing all without doubt and then trusting. There is more too, like children are more teachable in things. They don't have to unlearn something to learn the right thing. Children our obedient as well. I think someone will come along and do a better job on that than I just did. I am running low on gas at the moment.

Solomon offered up this one: Ecclesiastes 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

God Bless!

***awestruckchild*** · Jul 23rd 2009, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by BluePlastic

I've told him that I want to, though. That's what I pray about every night, and he doesn't send me any sign or give me any positive feeling or anything. I want to believe and he is not giving me the comforts that other people have described -- is not easing my fear or my anxiety or addressing my anger and doubt...it's all a big nothing and it's getting very discouraging.

Well, you've already stated earlier that if you pray about it, it won't do any good because He won't answer you and your guess is He never really answers anyone. But now it sounds like you truly do want His help so I think maybe you should go to Him once more (and without hiding your frustration, anger and tears) and tell Him you don't deserve to be answered or shown mercy because of your anger at Him but that you have no where else to turn and know that if there is to be any help for any of this, He will be the only One who can fix the mess of rage you are in. Tell Him you will wait patiently even though you need help quickly and that you truly do believe He will answer you and show You His mercy.

While you are waiting, begin the four gospels again. Ask Him about the parts you don't understand. You will not have to wait for long-just try to be patient. In fact, when you become impatient and angry, ask Him to help you wait for Him.

**BluePlastic** · Jul 23rd 2009, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by paintdiva

Well, you've already stated earlier that if you pray about it, it won't do any good because He won't answer you and your guess is He never really answers anyone. But now it sounds like you truly do want His help so I think maybe you should go to Him once more (and without hiding your frustration, anger and tears) and tell Him you don't deserve to be answered or shown mercy because of your anger at Him but that you have no where else to turn and know that if there is to be any help for any of this, He will be the only One who can fix the mess of rage you are in. Tell Him you will wait patiently even though you need help quickly and that you truly do believe He will answer you and show You His mercy.

While you are waiting, begin the four gospels again. Ask Him about the parts you don't understand. You will not have to wait for long-just try to be patient. In fact, when you become impatient and angry, ask Him to help you wait for Him.

What good does it do to ask him about the parts of the gospel I don't understand, when you've said he won't answer with words? Is he going to explain it with pictures or something? Not to be flippant but I don't understand what you mean.

***awestruckchild*** · Jul 23rd 2009, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by BluePlastic

What good does it do to ask him about the parts of the gospel I don't understand, when you've said he won't answer with words? Is he going to explain it with pictures or something? Not to be flippant but I don't understand what you mean.

You have either missed one of my posts further back or you did not read it carefully. And it's okay about the flippancy - I understand-you're mad. If I hadn't been there, I might take offense, but since I am you three years ago, I fully understand.

I didn't say He absolutely wouldn't answer with words. I said you really never have any idea how He will answer because the ways He seems to answer are so varied. And yes, I suppose sometimes you could say He does and might perhaps answer in pictures when He gives someone a vision. He has sent angels to men to tell them something. He spoke through a donkey at least once. He spoke from a burning bush at least once... I could go on and on.

You have no comprehension of what He can do-your mind and your understanding are too small. In fact, it is because of your limited mind that you seek to limit Him by insisting He either talk to you in words or you won't talk to Him or seek Him.

I have to be gone for two days but I will check back in here to see how you are doing. I hope you will read this thread again and do it carefully, taking your time to try to understand what I have said to you because even though you don't understand it yet, it is the truth. And the reason I know it is the truth is not because any person or church told me-it is because I have seen it and lived it and experienced it. I hope you have a good day.

With great affection,
Jennie

**cindylou** · Jul 23rd 2009, 03:02 PM

From ex-atheist.com:

A loving parent would not permit his child to suffer.

Or would he? A parent who would not permit his child to suffer would never deprive his offspring of any want, nor would he discipline the child. What then, do we mean by 'suffer'? If we limit the definition of suffering to physical pain, then we have to acknowledge that loving parents permit their children to suffer pain, at least to some degree, when they allow them to have immunization shots, or undergo chemotherapy or teach them how to ride a bike, knowing that the chances of them falling and getting hurt are probable. Therefore, a loving parent does permit his child to suffer physically, if he considers the suffering to be insignificant and for a greater good.

But would a loving parent permit his child to suffer significant pain for a greater good? As humans, we have a corporeal concern; no matter how strong our faith in God, this material and physical world is the only world of which we are aware. Therefore, we consider any significantly painful infliction as harmful to our bodies and our existence.

The difference between man and God is that God is fully aware of man's spiritual reality in addition to his physical reality. God knows that physical suffering cannot harm our eternal souls. God knows that our physical destruction is not an end to our existence. Of what significance is an hour of physical suffering compared to eternity? Of what significance is a lifetime of suffering compared to eternity? We can conclude that from God's perspective, our physical suffering is relatively insignificant. This is not to say that He is unsympathetic or oblivious to our pain; loving parents feel empathy when their child receives a shot, knowing full well that the pain is inconsequential.

But what greater good can be derived from our suffering? Is there a greater good involved? What would justify God sending us to live in a physical world with physical dangers? Why didn't God let us stay in the Garden of Eden?

According to the Bible, man was removed from the Garden of Eden in order to be born again so that one day, he could eat of the Tree of Life and be forever in God's company as a holy people. If men were made to live forever in their natural, sinful state, they would be eternally hellish creatures. God sees the greater good being accomplished in the transformation that will allow us to live eternally in heaven, a transformation that can only take place in the physical world. Spiritual lessons can’t take place in the garden; they have to take place in a desert.

It isn't that God wills us to experience misfortune, but that these misfortunes are merely the consequence of living in a physical world within our physical bodies. Every day, loving people make the decision to bring children into this world, knowing that it is a world filled with risk and injury. God is no less loving for having created the world in which we all live. But one may ask, "Why doesn't God do what He can to prevent these injuries, as any good parent would?

The argument quickly reduces itself into absurdity. At what point should God cease to prevent suffering? Should He suspend gravity for every trip of the foot? Should He suspend the properties of heat for every finger that touches a lit stove? In short, we would be asking God to suspend the physical laws that allow our very existence. We are saying, "Surely, God, there had to be a better way than all of this!" But until we can create a better planet that contains no risk to physical life, I shouldn't think that we would be in a position to criticize. For all we know, the existence that we are experiencing now may well be the only logical possibility of existence

CLIFFNOTES!! (hee hee)

1) We consider parents to be loving when they permit their child to suffer insignificantly for a greater good.
2) Our greater good is salvation.
3) Our earthly suffering is insignificant when examined in the scope of eternity.
4) Therefore, we can experience suffering and still believe in the existence of a loving God.

***awestruckchild*** · Jun 15th 2012, 08:34 PM

I ran across this old thread and I just recently happened to talk to this woman and she has heard from God and is doing well!! There are some specifics that I would like very much to relate but of course I can't because it was a private conversation, and also because many would not accept it!
But she has heard God and that is a thing to rejoice about!!

**Diggindeeper** · Jun 15th 2012, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by awestruckchild

I ran across this old thread and I just recently happened to talk to this woman and she has heard from God and is doing well!! There are some specifics that I would like very much to relate but of course I can't because it was a private conversation, and also because many would not accept it!
But she has heard God and that is a thing to rejoice about!!

Awestruckchild, do you mean you talked with the OP?

***awestruckchild*** · Jun 15th 2012, 11:50 PM

Yes, I did! It was about a month ago.
I always remembered her and I sent her a pm and she answered me.

**Diggindeeper** · Jun 16th 2012, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by awestruckchild

Yes, I did! It was about a month ago.
I always remembered her and I sent her a pm and she answered me.

You know sadly, all this with Debra and her little grandson's battle with cancer was heartbreaking and we were all praying for him, for her and for the entire family. The little boy didn't make it. Debra could not get over missing him so badly. It was heart wrenching for all of us, and especially for Debra and her husband. But, do you know that Debra has since passed on due to cancer? Its all just really sad. So I am really glad to hear that the lady now sees all this more clearly. I am...really happy for her.