Conversion.

**zaphod** · Jul 28th 2009, 12:52 AM

Hello! I am an atheist. However, I am not a close minded jerk atheist, which is why I'm here. Please tell me why I should be a christian using physical evidence. No appeals to my emotion, or threats of burning in hell. Thanks!

***livingwaters*** · Jul 28th 2009, 12:56 AM

Well, hello there....there is another man who has made a dvd about his journey of trying to pile up the evidence that God didn't exist...His name is Lee Strobel...I'm not sure if you may have heard of him or not. If not, I would ask you to go to his website and see all the evidence he presents from what started out as an atheist's point of view....www.leestrobel.com.

God bless and I hope you find the answers that would lead you to Christ!

**zaphod** · Jul 28th 2009, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by livingwaters

Well, hello there....there is another man who has made a dvd about his journey of trying to pile up the evidence that God didn't exist...His name is Lee Strobel...I'm not sure if you may have heard of him or not. If not, I would ask you to go to his website and see all the evidence he presents from what started out as an atheist's point of view....www.leestrobel.com.

God bless and I hope you find the answers that would lead you to Christ!

Seeing as you can not disprove the existence of something I am not interested in someones failed attempts at doing the impossible. I want a reason that I should be a christian using physical evidence.

***-SEEKING-*** · Jul 28th 2009, 01:01 AM

What exactly do you mean by physical evidence?

**zaphod** · Jul 28th 2009, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by -SEEKING-

What exactly do you mean by physical evidence?

Something which is physical that irrefutably proves the existence of god, and that god came to earth manifested in a human body as jesus, and that if I do not "come" to jesus I will go to hell. Like I said, evidence, not just you saying "it says so in the bible."

***Toymom*** · Jul 28th 2009, 01:05 AM

Hello and welcome Zaphod! Your post will need to be moved to the Christians answer area of the forum I think.
It is one that other people have asked on here before.
You can look at the replies to those as well for more info.
The physical evidence of God is the entire universe!
How much more physical evidence do you desire?

I do pray that you will come to know and enjoy the Lord.

**zaphod** · Jul 28th 2009, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by Toymom

Hello and welcome Zaphod! Your post will need to be moved to the Christians answer area of the forum I think.
It is one that other people have asked on here before.
You can look at the replies to those as well for more info.
The physical evidence of God is the entire universe!
How much more physical evidence do you desire?

I do pray that you will come to know and enjoy the Lord.

Please explain how the universe is in any way evidence of gods existence.

**Butch5** · Jul 28th 2009, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by zaphod

Hello! I am an atheist. However, I am not a close minded jerk atheist, which is why I'm here. Please tell me why I should be a christian using physical evidence. No appeals to my emotion, or threats of burning in hell. Thanks!

For starters, have you heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls? These are scrolls found I believe in the late 1940's. Contained among these scrolls are copies of the book of Isaiah. Secular scientists using carbon dating have dated these scrolls to at least 200 years before Christ. So, it can be seen that all of the prophecies contained in the book of Isaiah about Christ were in existence prior to His birth. We can see that they have come to fruition just as God said they would.

**zaphod** · Jul 28th 2009, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by Butch5

For starters, have you heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls? These are scrolls found I believe in the late 1940's. Contained among these scrolls are copies of the book of Isaiah. Secular scientists using carbon dating have dated these scrolls to at least 200 years before Christ. So, it can be seen that all of the prophecies contained in the book of Isaiah about Christ were in existence prior to His birth. We can see that they have come to fruition just as God said they would.

Seeing as there is no historical evidence that jesus even existed, I don't think the Dead Sea scrolls have anything to do with, well, anything, they were just copies of Isaiah. If I wanted to reread that I could, but seeing as the OT is packed with genocide, infanticide, rape, slavery, animal cruelty, and flat out impossibilities, I really don't feel like doing that unpleasant task again.

***watchinginawe*** · Jul 28th 2009, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by zaphod

Something which is physical that irrefutably proves the existence of god, and that god came to earth manifested in a human body as jesus, and that if I do not "come" to jesus I will go to hell. Like I said, evidence, not just you saying "it says so in the bible."

Hello zaphod, thanks for posting at Bibleforums in your "search".

Probably the closest thing that might point you in the right direction is your apparent interest in the subject. You obviously are old enough to contemplate all of this and you can construct intelligent communications on the subject. So, why are you bothered with this? I suggest that your interest in the topic of God is the very best evidence to start with. It is up to you where you allow that to take you beyond "irrefutable physical evidence".

Think about it like this. If you were blind (one of your senses), would it seem reasonable to think that everyone else who says that they see the sky as "blue" are deluded? What "irrefutable physical evidence" could they offer to prove that they see a "blue" sky? Or a cloud that looks like a puppy in the "blue" sky?

Our other senses can often help to make up for the dysfunction of another. But the Spiritual is not so easily sensed by our natural senses. However, our physical being can "feel" or "know" a dysfunction in our spiritual sense. Sometimes this can be a restlessness. Sometimes a foreboding. Or other times a loneliness. Well, the range of terms here could be a great be 'ole list, but I trust you get the idea.

So take an oyster knife and crack that curiosity open a bit and see if what you are looking for might exist somewhere else than in "irrefutable physical evidence". If not, then be at peace.

God Bless!

***-SEEKING-*** · Jul 28th 2009, 01:34 AM

Where are my manners. Welcome to the forum. I just wanted to let you know that I am moving your thread to a section called Christian Answers, which is a more appropriate section for your question. I'm sure you'll get more replies in there. And on another note be sure to read all the rules about posting. Enjoy your stay, and I hope God will enlighten you and become as real to you as the air you breathe.

**zaphod** · Jul 28th 2009, 01:35 AM

I have an interest in pre-einsteinian physics but that doesn't mean the aether exist, or that light is the result of vibrations through this aether. I also have an interest in greek mythology, that doesn't mean Zeus or Apollo exist.

**Butch5** · Jul 28th 2009, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by zaphod

Seeing as there is no historical evidence that jesus even existed, I don't think the Dead Sea scrolls have anything to do with, well, anything, they were just copies of Isaiah. If I wanted to reread that I could, but seeing as the OT is packed with genocide, infanticide, rape, slavery, animal cruelty, and flat out impossibilities, I really don't feel like doing that unpleasant task again.

Regardless of how you feel about the OT, the fact remains that the prophecies contained in Isaiah, have been proven to have been made before Christ was born. To say there is no historical evidence that Jesus existed is to deny the writings of many different groups from that time. The Bible is not the only writing about Jesus. As I said, the Dead Sea scrolls show that the prophecies were made before Christ, and the writings of history show that the prophecies were true.

**notuptome** · Jul 28th 2009, 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by zaphod

Seeing as there is no historical evidence that jesus even existed, I don't think the Dead Sea scrolls have anything to do with, well, anything, they were just copies of Isaiah. If I wanted to reread that I could, but seeing as the OT is packed with genocide, infanticide, rape, slavery, animal cruelty, and flat out impossibilities, I really don't feel like doing that unpleasant task again.

Isn't the real question is there life after death? Is this all there is or is there more? It has been said that the fact that we can conceive of God is strong evidence that He exists. Perhaps but then I have always believed that the athiest has a great deal more faith than the Chrisitian. I have an object for my faith. For physical evidence you could die but that experiment is not repeatable and not reversable so it has major flaws from a scientific perspective. Best bet would be to simply ask God to reveal Himself to you. If you can be sincere and not lie to God you may just develop the info you seek. I know that God is and the He can do the imposible. Since you don't have anything now I don't see that there's much to lose.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

***watchinginawe*** · Jul 28th 2009, 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by zaphod

I have an interest in pre-einsteinian physics but that doesn't mean the aether exist, or that light is the result of vibrations through this aether. I also have an interest in greek mythology, that doesn't mean Zeus or Apollo exist.

zaphod, if this is just an interest, then go to the library. Be at peace.

But if this is only an "interest", then you are assuming that this has all "been put on you". You have an interest only because others have interest. If it weren't for them you would have no reason to contemplate God at all. After all, there is no apparent evidence to stir up such an interest, right? When we contemplate where we came from, how, why, etc.; we wouldn't presume to contemplate anything but what we could find direct evidence for, right?

So an interest in the Spiritual might be the same as an interest in pre-einsteninian physics, meaning purely from external references. Or maybe not. It really depends on how we consider the evidence.

God Bless!