Falling in and out of unbelief/oppression?

[JohnnieGuy]

What is going on with me? I feel much the same as I always have. I BELIEVE that Christ died for my sins and rose from the dead, and I want to commit completely to Him in every way, but it's like something inside me won't accept it. I don't understand. I knew I saved 3 days ago and I had amazing and unshakable faith for about 2 hours. Then at around 4 am I woke up and felt like something 'evil' or very angry was on me and that I was not allowed to experience God's grace. That God was actually kicking me out.

I was so worried that I committed the unpardonable sin. I had a full revelation years ago and I 'think' I cam all the way to saving faith and committed everything, but in some ways I think I held back some ways, and that bothered me because I have heard that is like crucifying Christ again. I don't think I did that. I love the Lord and I HAVE experienced His grace before and I want Him to guide me.

Am I under some kind of oppression? I did fall away for a number of years, but I think through discouragement and despair and obviously being disobedient and quenching His Spirit. I would die before I rejected the Lord.

I guess after a while I just accepted the fact that I was a terrible Christian and got so discouraged. I also felt like I was condemned or that God would not accept me, and even was afraid to be in the Word or go to church, because I felt cast out or like evil or something.

Just wondering what is up with me? I truly do believe. I don't think God would cast me out. I have all the 'bad' Bible verses going on inside my head. I just KNOW that there was a time in my life where I had saving faith. I know there was. It wasn't a joke or just a revelation. It was true saving faith in Christ.

I was doing Neil Anderson's 'Steps to Freedom in Christ' for a while and I felt like something evil was on my heart, and one night I had a terrible nightmare and woke up in a sweat and I felt totally sick or like completely afraid.

That is the exact same feeling I had that night at 4 am. I dunno what it was but it felt very bad. I was wondering if that was an evil force or something.

In the past whenever I read anything religious or about Jesus I got scared, and whenever I saw anything on TV religious I got scared too. Like afraid of God I guess you could say, even though I believed it to be true and knew Jesus was the way and loved Him and would die for Him.

BTW, I've had similar stuff/OCD related/scrupulosity, etc. since I was 6, when I first gave my heart to Christ.

Can anyone give me advice?

[9Marksfan]

Hi Johnnie

First of all, thanks for posting on this matter. While I grieve that you are going through this stage, it is quite normal for either a new Christian or one who has recently come back to the LORD to go through this kind of satanic oppression.

I see you are going back to what you felt was a genuine experience of salvation when you were younger - because you fell into sin AFTER that time, the Devil is seeking to tell you that God rejected you then and He is going to do it again. God does not work like that. While I would not encourage you to base your assurance exclusively on your experience, it is a relevant factor, but what matters is your CURRENT experience of His grace - I don't think we are ever encouraged in Scripture to go back and dwell upin "the good times" in the past - what matters is NOW! Look back to your Saved! thread OP a few days ago - was your experience real? Of course it was! Satan is RAGING that God has done a tremendous work of grace in your life - have you ever read Pilgrim's Progress? If not, I would recommend you get a copy - there is a part where Christian is faced with Apollyon (the Destroyer), who is FUMING that Christian has escaped from his kingdom and he seeks to deny what Christian has experienced - you really should get a copy of it - it's quite possibly the greatest account outside of the Bible of what living the Christian life entails. Here's a link to the relevant passage:-

http://www.learnthebible.org/c_p_pil..._chapter_4.htm

But you need to look to the Bible first and foremost and look to Christ above all else!

Are you in fellowship in a good, sound, church that would, for example, consider Paul Washer's messages solid and biblical? If so, seek pastoral help there. If not, try and find one very soon! We are not meant to suffer in silence and struggle through the Christian walk on our own. Be assured that your online friends and brothers and sisters in Christ here are praying for you and are keen to help you in whatever way we can - but you will need "face to face" fellowship too!

PS My advice on that book you mentioned? - throw it out!

[JohnnieGuy]

Hi Johnnie

First of all, thanks for posting on this matter. While I grieve that you are going through this stage, it is quite normal for either a new Christian or one who has recently come back to the LORD to go through this kind of satanic oppression.

I see you are going back to what you felt was a genuine experience of salvation when you were younger - because you fell into sin AFTER that time, the Devil is seeking to tell you that God rejected you then and He is going to do it again. God does not work like that. While I would not encourage you to base your assurance exclusively on your experience, it is a relevant factor, but what matters is your CURRENT experience of His grace - I don't think we are ever encouraged in Scripture to go back and dwell upin "the good times" in the past - what matters is NOW! Look back to your Saved! thread OP a few days ago - was your experience real? Of course it was! Satan is RAGING that God has done a tremendous work of grace in your life - have you ever read Pilgrim's Progress? If not, I would recommend you get a copy - there is a part where Christian is faced with Apollyon (the Destroyer), who is FUMING that Christian has escaped from his kingdom and he seeks to deny what Christian has experienced - you really should get a copy of it - it's quite possibly the greatest account outside of the Bible of what living the Christian life entails. Here's a link to the relevant passage:-

http://www.learnthebible.org/c_p_pil..._chapter_4.htm

But you need to look to the Bible first and foremost and look to Christ above all else!

Are you in fellowship in a good, sound, church that would, for example, consider Paul Washer's messages solid and biblical? If so, seek pastoral help there. If not, try and find one very soon! We are not meant to suffer in silence and struggle through the Christian walk on our own. Be assured that your online friends and brothers and sisters in Christ here are praying for you and are keen to help you in whatever way we can - but you will need "face to face" fellowship too!

PS My advice on that book you mentioned? - throw it out!

Ok, thanks Mark. Yes, I am involved in a Bible believing church, the Southwinds Baptist church up here in Canada.

I was just worried man, because my heart still feels very hard. I know it's a process, right? It won't get soft all overnight? I also notice that when I am praying I feel something inside my heart sometimes. It's like almost a pain or a shearing feeling, but it feels good, has anyone gotten this before?

I was also just hoping to have that total faith in what Christ has done for me and have Him lead me out of my past life. I genuinely want to follow Him and rely upon Him for everything. I just was worried that I had rejected salvation years ago and it's too late now. Obviously if I care and want to have God lead me in life, this can't possibly be.

I also just notice how bad of a thinker I am and how bad my thoughts are sometimes. I don't want to be selfish over my salvation. I want to be humble before God for what He has done for me, and I want to be humble before others. I know I am a sinner saved by His grace and it's a process of healing and it won't happen all overnight, but I need to get beyond this place I'm in and to that true freedom in Christ that I have experienced before.

I'm not looking back.

[9Marksfan]

Ok, thanks Mark.

It's Nigel, actually, but no worries - gives me the opportunity to refer you to the source of my Forum name, an excellent site:-

www.9marks.org

Yes, I am involved in a Bible believing church, the Southwinds Baptist church up here in Canada.

Good - please remember to be accountable there and to share these matters with your pastor.

I was just worried man, because my heart still feels very hard. I know it's a process, right?

For all of us!

It won't get soft all overnight?

It is a process, as you say, usually with progress in some areas more than others at first. The important thing is a desire and hunger for God, which you seem to have in spades!

I also notice that when I am praying I feel something inside my heart sometimes. It's like almost a pain or a shearing feeling, but it feels good, has anyone gotten this before?

This may be something akin to the psalmist's experience:-

O God, you are my God,
earnestly I seek you;
my soul thirsts for you,
my body longs for you,
in a dry and weary land
where there is no water.

Ps 63:1 NIV

I was also just hoping to have that total faith in what Christ has done for me and have Him lead me out of my past life. I genuinely want to follow Him and rely upon Him for everything. I just was worried that I had rejected salvation years ago and it's too late now. Obviously if I care and want to have God lead me in life, this can't possibly be.

You said it! Fight for the joy and victory that Christ has died for you to experience!

I also just notice how bad of a thinker I am and how bad my thoughts are sometimes. I don't want to be selfish over my salvation. I want to be humble before God for what He has done for me, and I want to be humble before others. I know I am a sinner saved by His grace and it's a process of healing and it won't happen all overnight, but I need to get beyond this place I'm in and to that true freedom in Christ that I have experienced before.

Here's a passage for you to apply to yourself - especially the taking your thoughts captive and making them obedient to Christ - your renewed mind needs to have day-to-day voctory over your carnal mind:-

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ 2 Cor 10:4-5 NKJV

I'm not looking back.

Amen! Fix your eyes upon Christ and keep going forward!

[JohnnieGuy]

So is it safe to say that we all struggle with assurance from time to time?

I know we are to look to Christ and rest in God's promise, but it's intensely hard for me to do. It's like I'm trying to work up the joy and assurance, instead of just having faith in the promise.

That's when I doubt my salvation, but I suppose by doing that I'm really doubting God, aren't I? Not gonna do that.

Also, I still am smoking cigarettes. I was wondering since God hasn't given me any true conviction over it (though I do feel guilty sometimes at the thought that this body is the Lord's, not my own). My pastor said that is in God's time.

J

[mcgyver]

My brother, we all struggle from time to time...you're not in the boat alone, that's for sure.

But you see, it's not about how you feel...it's about what God has said...

Read Romans 10:9-10...then remember that the Word of God tells us that "we walk by faith, not by sight".

Every born-again believer goes through a period of doubt...even the Apostle Paul went to see the "original" Apostles...he told them what he'd been preaching to make sure that he was on track...lest his preaching "be in vain" as he put it.

Remember that just because you put on the new man...doesn't mean that you automatically got rid of the old one. Paul writes about the flesh lusting against the Spirit and the Spirit lusting against the flesh.

When you get a chance, read Romans 7 and see maybe if you can identify with Paul a little bit.

I will say this though...and this is from my experience in the ministry...if you weren't feeling conflicted and worried about it...then I'd wonder if you had the Holy Spirit. That you are says to me that the Holy Spirit is dwelling within you..else you wouldn't care one way or the other.

One other thing...stand on Romans 8:1!

God bless you!

[9Marksfan]

Hi Johnnie

Mcgyver has said pretty much what I was planning to say too!

I would only add that I think you have to take whatever steps you can to give up smoking. It only does you harm and when you stop and think WHY you do it, I'm sure you'll realise that it's a substitute for finding peace and calm in Christ!

Like all addictions, it will be a struggle to get over it - you might want to start a thread in Breaking the Chains about it, so that folks that are gifted and experienced in that particular field of intercession can pray for you and counsel you.

Smoking wasn't around in NT times, of course, but you're right on with your body being a temple of the Holy Spirit - it harms others too (passive smoking now proved to cause cancer in non-smokers), so you're not loving your neighbour by smoking in public. And I'm guessing it's addictive for you, which is always a bad thing. And even smoking occasionally on your own, are you not "making provision for the flesh" and trying to find solace in something other than the LORD?

Just some thoughts, bro' - don't let the devil bring you into condemnation over it but seek to be set free from it in Christ!

[lisa]

Dear Johnnie Boy,

First of all there are no unpardonable sins. Jesus Christ died for all our sins, and all you need to do is ask God for forgiveness. When I was a child I had a similar problem. I head a sermon on the radio that said a lot of Christians really didn't truly believe deep down in their hearts, and that they would go to hell when they died. I became frightful that I was one of these people. I worried that even though I thought I believed in God, some deep dark hidden part of my soul rejected Him. This bothered me for a while but then I finally realized that it was just the Devil trying to fool me.

Ask God to come into your life then open up your heart and wait for Him. These terrible feelings are just the Devil trying to fool you. The closer we get to the end of times the harder he tries to reap new souls. Seek out the fellowship of other Christians and become an active member in your Church Family.

Do not allow the Devil to grasp a hold of you. Keep your mind focused on Christ and He will do the rest!

You are in my prayers.

[mir]

reading your Bible can give you stronger faith. I struggled with faith too and sometimes still do, but it says that "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God". Hang in there and whenever you feel lack of faith, read your Bible (-:

the unpardonable sin is speaking a word against the Holy Spirit. It says in the Bible that such a person won't be forgiven in this world or the next

[RollTide21]

So is it safe to say that we all struggle with assurance from time to time?

I know we are to look to Christ and rest in God's promise, but it's intensely hard for me to do. It's like I'm trying to work up the joy and assurance, instead of just having faith in the promise.

That's when I doubt my salvation, but I suppose by doing that I'm really doubting God, aren't I? Not gonna do that.

Also, I still am smoking cigarettes. I was wondering since God hasn't given me any true conviction over it (though I do feel guilty sometimes at the thought that this body is the Lord's, not my own). My pastor said that is in God's time.

J

I dip smokeless tobacco and am in a better relationship with the Lord than I ever have been in my life. That said, I do believe that He will deal with that addiction in His time...just as your pastor said.

You'll just have to learn to not place your trust in feelings. I struggled with it for years, and still do. It's hard...especially for a new Christian that had a powerful Salvation experience. What you are going through now is simply God molding and teaching you how to trust in Him, daily...even when it seems there is no reason to trust Him.

[JohnnieGuy]

Ok. I just worry I wasn't broken enough over my sins or whatever. Sometimes I really want to do something I used to do, to be honest. I know it's a sin, but only because God says it is a sin, not because I feel it is a sin. I want to see things God's way. Oh man, I think I'm getting it. We believe what God says, because He is God. I get it I get it I get it. It doesn't matter HOW WE FEEL. We could even love to do some sins, but we don't do them because God said not to, right? We are obedient because He is God, and we trust what He says regarding sin, Jesus, and other things. Oh man I so totally get it.

See I was worried why I repented. I wasn't sure if I repented because I felt bad but I think I realized that I can't feel bad about sin and only God working through me can make me feel bad about it or learn to hate it.

Right?

Cause I stopped doing my sins because I was afraid of going against God. I find I'm trying way too hard to 'not sin' on my own. I'm not really being myself. I'm so deathly afraid to sin even once that I am not being myself. What do I do about this?

[9Marksfan]

Ok. I just worry I wasn't broken enough over my sins or whatever. Sometimes I really want to do something I used to do, to be honest. I know it's a sin, but only because God says it is a sin, not because I feel it is a sin. I want to see things God's way. Oh man, I think I'm getting it. We believe what God says, because He is God. I get it I get it I get it. It doesn't matter HOW WE FEEL. We could even love to do some sins, but we don't do them because God said not to, right? We are obedient because He is God, and we trust what He says regarding sin, Jesus, and other things. Oh man I so totally get it.

See I was worried why I repented. I wasn't sure if I repented because I felt bad but I think I realized that I can't feel bad about sin and only God working through me can make me feel bad about it or learn to hate it.

Right?

Cause I stopped doing my sins because I was afraid of going against God. I find I'm trying way too hard to 'not sin' on my own. I'm not really being myself. I'm so deathly afraid to sin even once that I am not being myself. What do I do about this?

Hi JohnnieGuy

This is all very encouraging, although you may not see it - as has been suggested to you before, I think you need to read and re-read Rom 6-8 - much of it should resonate with how you are feeling and you should find some great answers in ch 8 - in particular this one:-

For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. Rom 8:13 NIV