Who Does God Hate?

**Godmachine** · Aug 23rd 2009, 07:52 AM

A couple years ago a group from the Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas paid a visit to my hometown to stage a protest. Perhaps some of you have heard of this church. Were they here to protest the teaching of evolution or the moratorium on prayer in public schools? No. Were they here to protest at an abortion clinic? No. They were here to stage a demonstration at the funerals of two soldiers who had died in Iraq. They marched down the street holding signs that said things like "THANK GOD FOR DEAD SOLDIERS" and "GOD HATES FAGS". The people who belong to this Christian church apparently believe that the reason American soldiers die overseas is because America has become too accepting of homosexuality and dead soldiers are a symbol of 'God's wrath'.

"GOD HATES...."

There it was in big bold letters for all to see. I was curious so I asked a couple Christian acquaintances for their take on the situation. They seemed embarrassed and reluctant to talk about it. "Who does God hate?" I asked them. Naturally they insisted that their god was kind and loving and did not hate anyone and that the people with those signs were just a bunch of hateful fundamentalist wackos. I pointed out that the people with those signs were Christians who apparently believed in the same god other Christians believe in. They got their information about God from the same scriptures and a close reading of those scriptures would seem to suggest that the people with those signs were absolutely right, the god of the Bible really does seem to hate 'fags'. He commands that they be put to death and then he punishes them after they are dead by sending them to hell.

It has always seemed to me a contradictory belief in Christianity that God is kind and loving but at the same time punishes people on the basis of what they believe or who they are sexually attracted to. I once saw a bumper sticker that read "If you live as if there is no god, you better right". I think I am going to get one that says "If you think you know who God loves and who God hates, you better be right".

***Brother Mark*** · Aug 23rd 2009, 08:50 AM

Funny thing about opinions we all have them. You know, in the US, we share the constitution. It's written the same for all to read. Yet, there is MUCH disagreement over whether abortion is allowed by it or not. The answer you get will depend on whom you ask.

Back in Jesus day there were religious sects as well and they could not agree with one another. The pharisees were very strict and looked down at others. The saducees were liberal and really didn't believe the bible in a literal way. Funny thing, same bible, but different beliefs. Anyway, the pharisees often wanted to kill folks for their behavior and beliefs. Jesus resisted that.

Does God hate? You bet he hates! But he loves too and his love is overriding. But his hate is specific. But even though he hates what people do and those that do them, still he loved them enough to send Jesus to be reconciled with them.

As for Westboro Baptist, you won't find many supporters for them. I see nothing in scripture to back up what they are doing.

So what about you? What issues do you have with Jesus? I am sure you've heard it before. God loves you and sent Jesus for your sake. The question then becomes, what will you do with that?

Grace to you,

Mark

**Godmachine** · Aug 23rd 2009, 09:27 AM

So what about you? What issues do you have with Jesus? I am sure you've heard it before. God loves you and sent Jesus for your sake. The question then becomes, what will you do with that?

I don't have any issues with Jesus. I'm not even sure if he really existed. If he did I am relatively certain the real historical Christ in no way resembled the modern mythological one. It is not necessary to believe in a literal interpretation of a myth to believe in the message behind it. Jesus said we should love one another and it seems that in over 2000 years his 'followers' are still having trouble with that simple message.

**tt1106** · Aug 23rd 2009, 10:07 AM

Actually, I think his followers are doing fine. It is the people that claim to follow him and aren't that are the problem.
In looking at What God hates, it is important to understand who God is.
God is Holy and Righteous. Therefore, God Hates sin. God has given us a Book, thousands of years ago, to illustrate his love for us, beginning with building a nation and illustrating man's rebellion since the beginning of time. This same book points towards man's inability to do what God loves, be righteous, on our own. Therefore, in the beginning, as far back as Genesis, God outlines a plan for man's salvation.
God makes no promise of it being easy. He basically says, I created you, I abhor these things, you may choose to do them, but if you do, you cannot fellowship with me forever. He also basically says, you are not a finite being, when you die you go to one of two places, and souls are eternal.
Therefore, you have two options.
God knows that you may love another man, but difficult as it is, God asks you to obedient to him, not to us.
That is a message that really conflicts with our message of, But I want to do what I want to do.
Why is the world in the state that its in, Because man, even Christian men, continue to do what their lustful bodies tell them to do, instead of what God has told them they must do.

I understand your confusion, because People, like Westboro, are confused and do not follow Christ's commands.
They will be judged like all men and women.
I try to live my life as Christ did. But Christ, although loving also spoke the truth and had much to say about eternity.
No Christians that I know of approve of Westboro's tacticts or most of the beliefs, that I've seen on their signs on television.

***Brother Mark*** · Aug 23rd 2009, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Godmachine

I don't have any issues with Jesus. I'm not even sure if he really existed. If he did I am relatively certain the real historical Christ in no way resembled the modern mythological one. It is not necessary to believe in a literal interpretation of a myth to believe in the message behind it. Jesus said we should love one another and it seems that in over 2000 years his 'followers' are still having trouble with that simple message.

Jesus message from 2000 years ago got Him crucified. You think he might have said some hard things?

And for the record, it was religious folks that wanted Him crucified. That's worth noting.

***Athanasius*** · Aug 23rd 2009, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Godmachine

I don't have any issues with Jesus. I'm not even sure if he really existed. If he did I am relatively certain the real historical Christ in no way resembled the modern mythological one. It is not necessary to believe in a literal interpretation of a myth to believe in the message behind it. Jesus said we should love one another and it seems that in over 2000 years his 'followers' are still having trouble with that simple message.

Where did Jesus say we should love one another, and what do you think he meant by love? I ask for the simple reason that what you believe 'love' is, isn't what Jesus was talking about.

**Dani H** · Aug 23rd 2009, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Godmachine

Jesus said we should love one another and it seems that in over 2000 years his 'followers' are still having trouble with that simple message.

There is a lot of truth to your statement.

The challenge to you, then (since you admittedly have no problem with the "simple message" and seem to agree with it), is to follow it yourself.

Also, not everyone who claims the name of Jesus, obviously belongs to Him.

Jesus Himself said that the world would know who His people are by the way we love one another.

No love for the brethren = no Jesus anywhere near it. It's that simple, really.

***tango*** · Aug 23rd 2009, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Godmachine

I don't have any issues with Jesus. I'm not even sure if he really existed. If he did I am relatively certain the real historical Christ in no way resembled the modern mythological one. It is not necessary to believe in a literal interpretation of a myth to believe in the message behind it. Jesus said we should love one another and it seems that in over 2000 years his 'followers' are still having trouble with that simple message.

It's easy to make blanket statements like "God hates fags" but much harder to justify such statements with the Bible. Jesus died for all of us, while we were still sinners Jesus died to redeem us:

Rom 5:6-8 NKJV For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. (7) For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. (8) But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Why did Jesus come and do this? Why did God send Jesus to do this? Because he loves us

Joh 3:16 NKJV For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

It says "God so loved the world". Not "God loved the world, except for gays", he loves us all.

It's also very easy to look at one specific sin, loudly denounce it, and be very sure that people know that we don't commit such a heinous sin. But we all sin, we all fall short of the standards God expects. Some do it in ways which have very visible consequences, others do it in ways which are private and secret. The man who sleeps with the au pair while his wife is out is as much of a sinner as the man who sleeps with another man, who in turn is as much of a sinner as the man who fiddles his expenses at work. When the "pass mark" is 100% it doesn't matter if we come in at 99.9% or at 0.3%, we fail the test.

It's worth making clear that any form of sin is an abomination to God. God hates sin, but loves us. The challenge to all of us to to love sinners while hating their sin, just as God loves us but hates our sin.

**Desperaux** · Aug 23rd 2009, 05:38 PM

Psalm 11:5
The Lord examines both the righteous and the wicked.
He hates those who love violence.

God hates all sin, and in the end, in His EXAMINATIONS (read: judgment), His wrath and hatred of it will be poured out on the wicked who reject His ways. In the meantime, He is slow to anger and rich in mercy, abounding in love toward those who will seek Him and receive Him.

**Godmachine** · Aug 23rd 2009, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Brother Mark

Jesus message from 2000 years ago got Him crucified. You think he might have said some hard things?

And for the record, it was religious folks that wanted Him crucified. That's worth noting.

I agree. And I think if he were to come back today religious folks would crucify him all over again. That seems to be what people do to their 'saviors'. Must be human nature.

**nadroj15** · Aug 23rd 2009, 07:07 PM

Here's my two cents:

God hates homosexuality, not the homosexual. It's the same principle as someone who suffers from any sin (God hates lying, not the liar . . . God hates theft, but not the thief.)

All sin, like someone said earlier, is an abomination to God. He loves the individual but hates that they are in sin.

As a side note, I'm glad that God doesn't hate homosexuals . . . as a recovering homosexual in Christ, the issue kind of hits home to me.

***Brother Mark*** · Aug 23rd 2009, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Godmachine

I agree. And I think if he were to come back today religious folks would crucify him all over again. That seems to be what people do to their 'saviors'. Must be human nature.

Some would. Others would fall down and worship him. Others still would simply ignore him. What would you do? For that is the real question.

**Godmachine** · Aug 23rd 2009, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Brother Mark

Some would. Others would fall down and worship him. Others still would simply ignore him. What would you do? For that is the real question.

I tend to listen to people who say things that need to be said. I tend to be very skeptical of people who only say things people want to hear. There are plenty of 'saviors' who walk among us every day. They are not here to be 'worshiped'. What would I do? I would listen to what he has to say. That is what I already try to do in my everyday life. Of course with the cacophony of raised voices in today's world that is not always easy.

***Brother Mark*** · Aug 23rd 2009, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Godmachine

I tend to listen to people who say things that need to be said. I tend to be very skeptical of people who only say things people want to hear. There are plenty of 'saviors' who walk among us every day. They are not here to be 'worshiped'. What would I do? I would listen to what he has to say. That is what I already try to do in my everyday life. Of course with the cacophony of raised voices in today's world that is not always easy.

I agree with you in that it is not easy to separate all the voices! Even in Jesus day, there were plenty of saviors that talked. But they didn't last long.

Sometimes he spoke in riddles that are hard to understand. Sometimes, he said things that made almost everyone in his day draw back. Other times, he showed such compassion for people that they would not leave him alone.

So what has Jesus said that intrigues you?

**Godmachine** · Aug 23rd 2009, 07:59 PM

So what has Jesus said that intrigues you?

Truthfully I don't know what he said. All the words that are attributed to him were written many years after he supposedly lived by people who never actually knew him. In other words, those sayings and sermons appear to be someone else's words. I was not there 2000 years ago. I try to listen to the 'saviors' who are here today.