Originally Posted by Firstfruits
I never said that.
But be clear what the Apostle Paul says in 2 Thes 2:7 For the mystery of Iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
1 Co 2: 12
***
I never said that.
But be clear what the Apostle Paul says in 2 Thes 2:7 For the mystery of Iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
With regards to the scriptures, would you agree or disagree that Satan is still going around like a roaring lion and therefore is not yet in the pit bound?
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit And a great chain in his hAnd.
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Unless the millenium has ended then satan is not free to walk about seeking whom he may devour.
1 Pet 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Firstfruits
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
You must therefore agree that for the first resurrection to take place acording to Rev.20, the beast and the false prophet, the mark of the beast, the image of the beast must all have been fulfilled.
Firstfruits
1 Co 2: 12
***
yes but its power was repressed and restrained. So says the Bible:
Luk 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: 11:22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armor wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
The Gentiles saved were the spoils.
1 Co 2: 12
***
I accept that those who belong to the first resurrection, that is, those who have been saved by the Blood of Christ, have had to go through all kinds of tribulations and persecutions.
Where do you get it that for the first resurrection all have been fulfilled.?
you confuse the resurrection of the soul with the general resurrection of the bodies.
Posting Freak
Hi Firstfruits,
Whew!
There has been a lot of threads on the "1000 years" at this forum lately. Congrats to you and all in this thread . . .
As you know, several themes are involved on this issue:
1) Mark of the Beast
2) martyrs
3) ruling WITH Christ for "1000 years"
4) the "binding of Satan" for "1000 years"
5) etc. (fill in the others)
6) etc. (fill in the others)
However, might I provide a bit of synthesis on this?
1) Saint Stephen was martyred by stoning in the 1st century according to Acts 7.
2) So, Saint Stephen has to be one of the saints represented in the passage below (especially Rev. 16:6):
Revelation 16:1-7:
1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple (in heaven), saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.”
2 So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth; and it became a loathsome and malignant sore on the people who had the mark of the beast and who worshiped his image.
3 The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living thing in the sea died.
4 Then the third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and the springs of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters saying, “Righteous are You, who are and who were, O Holy One, because You judged these things;
6 for they poured out the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink. They deserve it.”
7 And I heard the altar saying, “Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.
3) Thus, Saint Stephen was martyred in the first century by people who had "the Mark of the Beast" at that time--the Jerusalem Council of Acts 7.
4) Therefore, "the Mark of the Beast" cannot be just future from 2009, because the Jerusalem Council of Acts 7 had "the Mark of the Beast" on their lives.
5) The Beast has to be present wherever those who have "the Mark of the Beast" are present (remember, the Beast "carries" the Whore--see Rev. 17).
6) And so, the Beast of Revelation 13 (and the False Prophet) cannot be just future from 2009, but was around in the 1st century; I'm sure many Christians were killed by beheading at that time also.
Does this make sense?
Grace and peace,
Billy-brown 2
I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Coffee Break
The Bible tells us that Jesus will come with a sword and vanquish the wicked--then set up His Kingdom on earth and reign for 1000 years--that's why.
Coffee Break
Not everything is symbolic. We need to pray for the elucidation of the Holy Spirit when we read the Scriptures, and especially when we want to discern Revelation.
I live here!
Hi Firstfruits,
Whew!
There has been a lot of threads on the "1000 years" at this forum lately. Congrats to you and all in this thread . . .
As you know, several themes are involved on this issue:
1) Mark of the Beast
2) martyrs
3) ruling WITH Christ for "1000 years"
4) the "binding of Satan" for "1000 years"
5) etc. (fill in the others)
6) etc. (fill in the others)
However, might I provide a bit of synthesis on this?
1) Saint Stephen was martyred by stoning in the 1st century according to Acts 7.
2) So, Saint Stephen has to be one of the saints represented in the passage below (especially Rev. 16:6):
3) Thus, Saint Stephen was martyred in the first century by people who had "the Mark of the Beast" at that time--the Jerusalem Council of Acts 7.
4) Therefore, "the Mark of the Beast" cannot be just future from 2009, because the Jerusalem Council of Acts 7 had "the Mark of the Beast" on their lives.
5) The Beast has to be present wherever those who have "the Mark of the Beast" are present (remember, the Beast "carries" the Whore--see Rev. 17).
6) And so, the Beast of Revelation 13 (and the False Prophet) cannot be just future from 2009, but was around in the 1st century; I'm sure many Christians were killed by beheading at that time also.
Does this make sense?
According to Revelation 20:4, all of what you stated would had to have had occured before the 1000 yrs begins.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
'and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands'
this above would have to occur before the following could occur:
'and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.'
Put simply, this would mean that once the 1000 yrs commences, 'and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands', this would be over and done with and now in the past. with that in mind, it makes absolutely no sense to interpret this 1000 yrs as un unknown amount of time and currently in progress.
But, if this 1000 yrs occurs at Christ's return, this still doesn't mean that saint Stephen wouldn't be one of those in the first resurrection, having been martyred.
Coffee Break
It will be ravaged, but we will be on a grand restoration project for those 1000 years!
2 Peter 3:10-13
10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. 11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
Thanks Billy Brown,Hi Firstfruits,
Whew!
There has been a lot of threads on the "1000 years" at this forum lately. Congrats to you and all in this thread . . .
As you know, several themes are involved on this issue:
1) Mark of the Beast
2) martyrs
3) ruling WITH Christ for "1000 years"
4) the "binding of Satan" for "1000 years"
5) etc. (fill in the others)
6) etc. (fill in the others)
However, might I provide a bit of synthesis on this?
1) Saint Stephen was martyred by stoning in the 1st century according to Acts 7.
2) So, Saint Stephen has to be one of the saints represented in the passage below (especially Rev. 16:6):
3) Thus, Saint Stephen was martyred in the first century by people who had "the Mark of the Beast" at that time--the Jerusalem Council of Acts 7.
4) Therefore, "the Mark of the Beast" cannot be just future from 2009, because the Jerusalem Council of Acts 7 had "the Mark of the Beast" on their lives.
5) The Beast has to be present wherever those who have "the Mark of the Beast" are present (remember, the Beast "carries" the Whore--see Rev. 17).
6) And so, the Beast of Revelation 13 (and the False Prophet) cannot be just future from 2009, but was around in the 1st century; I'm sure many Christians were killed by beheading at that time also.
Does this make sense?
We must therefore know who the beast and the false prophet are, we must know what is the mark of the beast, we must know the image of the beast. For the first resurerection to take place those mentioned must have been killed during that time.
Jesus must have returned in order for the beast and the false prophet to be destroyed, if they are already gone then we must say that Jesus has already returned.
If we do not have answers for what has been pointed out, then we are still looking at a future event and a specific group and time.
Satan still deceives, until he is unable to do so as it is written then it is yet to come.
God bless you!
Firstfruits
Coffee Break
Hi Firstfruits,
Whew!
There has been a lot of threads on the "1000 years" at this forum lately. Congrats to you and all in this thread . . .
As you know, several themes are involved on this issue:
1) Mark of the Beast
2) martyrs
3) ruling WITH Christ for "1000 years"
4) the "binding of Satan" for "1000 years"
5) etc. (fill in the others)
6) etc. (fill in the others)
However, might I provide a bit of synthesis on this?
1) Saint Stephen was martyred by stoning in the 1st century according to Acts 7.
2) So, Saint Stephen has to be one of the saints represented in the passage below (especially Rev. 16:6):
3) Thus, Saint Stephen was martyred in the first century by people who had "the Mark of the Beast" at that time--the Jerusalem Council of Acts 7.
4) Therefore, "the Mark of the Beast" cannot be just future from 2009, because the Jerusalem Council of Acts 7 had "the Mark of the Beast" on their lives.
5) The Beast has to be present wherever those who have "the Mark of the Beast" are present (remember, the Beast "carries" the Whore--see Rev. 17).
6) And so, the Beast of Revelation 13 (and the False Prophet) cannot be just future from 2009, but was around in the 1st century; I'm sure many Christians were killed by beheading at that time also.
Does this make sense?
No it doesn't make sense.
I live here!
Actually what billy-brown 2 states does make sense, but only if put into the correct perspective.
All of it would have to occur before the 1000 yrs can occur. It doesn't occur simultaneously as he seems to be implying, but what he states must happen prior to the 1000 yrs in order to square with the Scriptures. Now if he were to say that the 1000 yrs begins after everything he had posted in post #171, then I probably wouldn't be disagreeing with his conclusions at all.
Veteran
Hello Billy Brown, (Hope you don’t mind if gang up on you) Firstfruits can still answer you. What you said does make sense. There were some Jews that had “THE MARK” at that time, but it didn’t become the mark of the “Beast” until the 3rd century. The same “Mark” was used for the worshipers of Tammuz.
Eze 8:13 And He said to me, "Turn again, and you will see greater abominations that they are doing."
Eze 8:14 So He brought me to the door of the north gate of the Lord's house; and to my dismay, women were sitting there weeping for Tammuz.
Eze 8:15 Then He said to me, "Have you seen this, O son of man? Turn again, you will see greater abominations than these."
Eze 8:16 So He brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house; and there, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about twenty-five men with their backs toward the temple of the Lord and their faces toward the east, and they were worshiping the sun toward the east.
Posting Freak
DivaD,
I hear you--really I do.
However, one of the main points apropos the "1000 years" is to allow all of us to observe the superiority of YHWH's gamesmanship against Satan. This is what the "1000 years" is about primarily (it seems to me).
So, let's look again at the appropriate scriptures on this:
Now verses 2, 3, 7, 8, 9, and 10 seem to be key apropos Satan:
Rev. 20:1-10
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
YHWH has "bound" Satan
specifically
to "release" Satan
to his doom in the lake of fire.
(But this is a "restriction binding" only,
because of the truth of I Peter 5:8.)
In other words, Satan can not even initiate his own doom--it is controlled over the "1000 years" in every way by YHWH. That doom was indeed initiated through the sacrifice of the Lamb of God at Calvary. (See 1 John 3:8.)
So according to the applicable verses, Satan cannot begin to deceive nations to gather FOR a battle until he is "released" BY YHWH from a "restriction binding" to do so. And this is the first thing that Satan does when he is "released" from the "binding", yes?
Then, the "set up" is complete: YHWH devourers by fire the rebel armies of the nations (Gog and Magog) that have been deceived by Satan to gather against the saints and the beloved city, and casts Satan into the Lake of Fire.
And YHWH is in control of every bit of this destruction "set up" of Satan from beginning to end.
Now, all of this has implications apropos Saint Stephen.
After all, if Saint Stephen was killed in the 1st century, then is he not one of the saints referred to in Rev. 16:6?
If so, then the people who had the "Mark of the Beast" stoned Him (read Acts 6 and 7).Revelation 16:1-7:
1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple (in heaven), saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.”
2 So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth; and it became a loathsome and malignant sore on the people who had the mark of the beast and who worshiped his image.
3 The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living thing in the sea died.
4 Then the third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and the springs of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters saying, “Righteous are You, who are and who were, O Holy One, because You judged these things;
6 for they poured out the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink. They deserve it.”
7 And I heard the altar saying, “Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.
Thus, the Beast had to be around during this time as well. After all, the Beast "carries" the "harlot", and the "harlot" sits" on the Beast, yes?
Rev. 17
1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters,
2 with whom the kings of the earth committed acts of immorality, and those who dwell on the earth were made drunk with the wine of her immorality.”
3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality,
5 and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, “BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.”
6 And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.
7 And the angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.
And the Beast is controlled by Satan, the Dragon, yes? Someone may now say " . . . but I thought Satan was bound . . ."
No . . .
Satan is bound from completing the "1000-year" process of his own destruction in the lake of fire--it's a "set-up" by YHWH. (Of course, there are other things he can not do also, but I am speaking specifically to the verses of Rev. 20:1-10.)
This means Satan can still do the following now:
1) energize the Beast and the false prophet (Rev. 13)
2) seek whom he may devour (1 Pet. 5:8)
3) work in the children of disobedience (Eph. 2)
4) send fiery darts to Christians (Eph. 6)
5) etc.
Remember, Satan does not have omniscience.
He is not aware that he is being "set up" by YHWH: he thinks actually that he is going to win in the end . . .
What self-deception, indeed . . .
Does this make sense?
Grace and peace,
Billy-brown 2
I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
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