If we are in the millenium?????

[billy-brown 2]

In light of all Scripture, Jesus promises to come back and set up His Kingdom on earth and reign physically--with a rod of iron, I might add.

Revelation 19:15
From his mouth came a sharp sword to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. He will release the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty, like juice flowing from a winepress.

Yep, Jesus is coming back again; this is true. (Go Jesus, Go Jesus, go . . .)

However, he cannot return until ALL the enemies of God are put under His feet.

This is the reason he is now ruling at YHWH's right hand.

Indeed, Jesus is ruling at YHWH's right hand UNTIL his enemies are made His footstool.

In fact, this current rule of Christ makes His eventual Second Coming a possibility.

Here are the scriptures on this:

1 Cor. 15:20-28
20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,
24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
27 For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Also, what is your understanding of this passage below? (Just seeking to learn . . .)

Rev. 2
18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write:
The Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet are like burnished bronze, says this:
19 ‘I know your deeds, and your love and faith and service and perseverance, and that your deeds of late are greater than at first. 20 ‘But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
21 ‘I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality.
22 ‘Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.
23 ‘And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.
24 ‘But I say to you, the rest who are in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not known the deep things of Satan, as they call them—I place no other burden on you.
25 ‘Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come.
26 ‘He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS;
27 AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father;
28 and I will give him the morning star.
29 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

[ivorylamp]

Billy Brown, your explanation is so good. Thank you guys. I always assumed we are in the millennium but I did not understand the events to take place.

[divaD]

However, he cannot return until ALL the enemies of God are put under His feet.

According to 1 Corinthians 15:26, death would be an enemy to God.
Since the white throne judgment is where the last enemy is destroyed, which is death, does that then mean, according to your conclusions, that Jesus returns after death is destroyed in the LOF? Keep in mind, you made a point to mention 'ALL' enemies of God. And this would include death. My point is, Jesus would have to return first, in order that all enemies could be put under His feet. This is accomplished in the day of the Lord, IOW the 1000 yrs. At the end of that 1000 yrs, and after Christ had already returned, then will the last enemy be destroyed. And then will be the new heavens and earth.


1 Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

[Firstfruits]

We, His mighty army, robed in clean, white linen, will come a-riding with Him.

Revelation 19:11-14
11 Then I saw heaven opened, and a white horse was standing there. Its rider was named Faithful and True, for he judges fairly and wages a righteous war. 12 His eyes were like flames of fire, and on his head were many crowns. A name was written on him that no one understood except himself. 13 He wore a robe dipped in blood, and his title was the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven, dressed in the finest of pure white linen, followed him on white horses.

The scripture given is after the millenium is finished is it not? Unless you are saying that Jesus comes twice which I know you believe is a once and final event.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[billy-brown 2]

According to 1 Corinthians 15:26, death would be an enemy to God.
Since the white throne judgment is where the last enemy is destroyed, which is death, does that then mean, according to your conclusions, that Jesus returns after death is destroyed in the LOF? Keep in mind, you made a point to mention 'ALL' enemies of God. And this would include death. My point is, Jesus would have to return first, in order that all enemies could be put under His feet. This is accomplished in the day of the Lord, IOW the 1000 yrs. At the end of that 1000 yrs, and after Christ had already returned, then will the last enemy be destroyed. And then will be the new heavens and earth.


1 Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

divaD,

The word "destroyed" in your reference below:

According to 1 Corinthians 15:26, death would be an enemy to God.
Since the white throne judgment is where the last enemy is destroyed, which is death, does that then mean, according to your conclusions, that Jesus returns after death is destroyed in the LOF?

must be treated with great care.

The Greek word that Paul uses for "destroyed" in 1 Cor. 15:26 is katargeo, and this word means "made of none effect" (not "wiped from existence").

Thus, when Paul uses it here and in I Tim. 1, he is saying that death is "cheated"--much in the same way that gravity is "cheated" by a flying object. (An airplane, for example, "cheats" gravity when it "takes off" into flight, but gravity is still there, yes?)

Now, the first-fruits of the resurrection of the dead is Jesus Christ, right? (See 1 Cor 15:23.)

So, notice what Paul indicates here concerning Christ Jesus in II Tim. 1 (two versions of it):

NAS
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God,
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,
10 but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
11 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher.

ISV
8Therefore, never be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord or of me, his prisoner. Instead, by God's power, join me in suffering for the sake of the gospel.

9 He saved us
and called us with a holy calling,
not according to our own accomplishments,
but according to his own purpose and the grace
that was given to us in the Messiah Jesus
before time began.
10 Now, however, that grace has been revealed
through the coming of our Savior the Messiah Jesus,
who has destroyed death
and through the gospel has brought life
and release from death into full view.
11For the sake of this gospel I was appointed to be a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the gentiles.

Now, the word "abolished" or "destroyed" in 1 Tim 1: 9 is katargeo. How did Jesus "destroy" death here?

Well, He rose from the dead as the firstfruits (1 Cor 15:23).

Thus, Jesus' bodily resurrection from the dead "cheated" death (1. e., "made it of none effect") through the power of Holy Ghost. But it didn't "wipe death from existence," because people have been dying all over the world since the 1st century up to now, right?

Therefore, it seems that Paul is indicating that the "last enemy"--death--will be "cheated" by the "change" at the general resurrection from the dead of all believers in Christ at Christ's Second coming:

1 Cor 15
50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
55 “O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course, we have this also from Paul:

1 Cor. 15:20-28
20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,
24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
27 For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

However, the unbelievers are resurrected at the same time as the believers are--on the last day. The believers are raised and given the reward of YHWH for loyal faith--the glorified body of eternal immortal salvation, while the unbelievers are resurrected for judgment--and are cast into the second death (the Lake of Fire) along with death and hell.

Below are some of the verses on this:

Luke 20 (Jesus is speaking)
34 Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage,
35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
36 for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

John 5 (Jesus is speaking)
28 “Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

John 6 (Jesus is speaking)
35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.
36 “But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe.
37 “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 “This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.

John 12 (Jesus is speaking)
47 “If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 “He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

Acts 24 (the Apostle Paul is speaking)
14 “But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;
15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Rev 20 (John saw and wrote)
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Does this make sense?

[My heart's Desire]

Let's see . . .

My heart's Desire,

Are you aware that all believers of this current age (whether Jew or Greek, male or female, bond or free) are the “Judah/Israel” of the New Covenant?

Look at Ephesians 2:11-22 on this:


So now, let's look carefully at Hebrews 8:1-2:



So, this scripture says that "we have . . ." and Jesus "has taken . . ." His seat in the true tabernacle of heaven--at YHWH's right hand. This has happened already. Really.

Now, the Apostle Peter has preached about this also in Acts 2--let's look at it (with some brief comments):
Verses 22-24 is the Gospel of Jesus Christ in a nutshell--Christ died on the cross for the sins of the world, and rose again.

Verses 25-28 below are prophetic--they come from Psalms 16, and they support what Peter is preaching in verses 22-24. Pay careful attention to verse 27 . . .


This is from Psalm 16--a powerful prophesy of the Lord through King David.

Now, watch carefully what Peter is indicating below--and his reference to verse 27 above . . .


Of course, they heard "speaking in other languages" that day . . . continuing . . .



Now, verses 30-31 indicate that God swore an oath to King David that one of David's descendants would sit on David's throne.

And so, David was speaking that through the resurrection of Christ, Psalm 16 would be fulfilled in the 1st century.

Therefore, verse 32 indicates that God raised up Jesus from the dead specifically to sit on David's throne (among other things).

Then, in verse 33 Peter indicates that the "speaking in tongues" that they were hearing that day was proof that Jesus had been ( . . . having been . . . ) exalted to God's right hand and seated on David's Throne. This fulfills several aspects of Psalm 110 also.

We, therefore, must conclude that God's right hand is David's Throne, and Jesus is ruling in the midst of enemies on this throne right now, and is High Priest in the Heavenly Tabernacle right now.

And notice also the location of the Right Hand of God/David's Throne: it is in HEAVEN--and not on the earth.

Do you see what I mean?

So, if we put Heb. 8 and Acts 2 together, we must conclude that Jesus is our High Priest now, and is ruling currently on David's Throne--as Priest and King at the same time--as the BRANCH (Zech. 6:12-13).



Saints of the Lord,

Since His resurrection/ascension, Christ Jesus has already been reigning, and reigns currently FOREVER at YHWH's right hand. Indeed, Christ has been reigning there for at least 2000 years so far at the Father's right hand in an ETERNAL HEAVENLY sanctuary.

And this reign of Christ affects the earth now (from this heavenly tabernacle) without Him being physically present on the earth.

Let's look at Heb. 8:1-3 concerning this:

Now, can you imagine this eternal tabernacle of Heb. 8:1-2 being destroyed at all? The answer seems to be that NO ONE will destroy it. This is the reason I have suggested that Jesus' reign is not limited to "1000 years" at all.

And without this reign, Christ cannot destroy "enemies" in this age--including "death" by the general resurrection from the dead at His Second Coming. (Death is the "last" enemy, yes?)

Indeed, Christ's reign has been going on already since His resurrection/ascension, and is forever, and His vindication by YHWH at His right hand in this is crystal clear (see the red words in Eph. 1:18-21):
So, what is the dividing line between these "two ages" in verse 21 above? Is it not "the resurrection from the dead" of Luke 20?

Now, the resurrection of the dead of Luke 20 has not happened yet, because it happens concurrently with the Second Coming of Christ, and Second Coming of Christ has not happened yet, yes?

Look at Phil 3:20-21 concerning this:

Thus, the first resurrection of Rev. 20:4-6 can not be physical.

Why?

Because the first resurrection deals with what the "souls of DEAD people" are doing (coming to life and ruling with Christ "1000 years") or not doing (not coming to life and ruling with Christ "1000 years") right now.

Let's consider James also, the great martyr of Christ during the days of the book of Acts:

Now, James the brother of John was martyred by Herod--in the first century. Tradition indicates also that this occurred by beheading. (See the Matthew Henry Commentary and other sources.)

Since James the brother of John was martyred by Herod in the 1st century, would this make James one of the many martyrs that are reigning currently with Christ?

If so, then the "1000 years" can not be future from now.

Jeremiah makes it clear that this is on the earth. Jeremiah 23:3 Says Then I Myself will gather the remnant of My flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and bring them back to their pasture, and they will be fruitful and multiply ........

4. He will raise up shepherds over them.........

5. the days are coming, declares the lord, When I will raise up for David a righteous Branch;
And He will reign as king.
And the king does what?
He will act wisely
do justice
and righteousness...where? IN the land.
In His days Judah will be saved. And Israel will dwell securely; where? IN the land.
Verse 8 But As the Lord lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I had driven them. Then they will live on their own soil.
And what is the king's Name?
Verse 5 says And this is His name by which He will be called, The Lord our righteousness.

[Desperaux]

Billy Brown, your explanation is so good. Thank you guys. I always assumed we are in the millennium but I did not understand the events to take place.

But we are NOT in the Millennium. you are believing a falsehood. It seems you want to believe it, and you are allowing your ears to be tickled.

2 Timothy 4:3
For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear.

[Desperaux]

However, the unbelievers are resurrected at the same time as the believers are--on the last day. The believers are raised and given the reward of YHWH for loyal faith--the glorified body of eternal immortal salvation, while the unbelievers are resurrected for judgment--and are cast into the second death (the Lake of Fire) along with death and hell.

Below are some of the verses on this:


Does this make sense?

Not entirely. Jesus Himself says in 1 Corinthians 15:23: But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back.

ORDER! There is no resurrection for the wicked at that time. The Word of God tells us that the wicked are not raised until Judgment after the Millennial Reign of Christ.

The wicked will have their resurrection, but not at the same time as the righteous--as mentioned in Revelation 20:5: But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.


Paul tells us here merely that there is a time for both, but as Jesus says--there is an order to each---not necessarily at the same time.

Acts 24:15
I have the same hope in God that these men have, that he will raise both the righteous and the unrighteous.

[kay-gee]

But we are NOT in the Millennium. you are believing a falsehood. It seems you want to believe it, and you are allowing your ears to be tickled.

2 Timothy 4:3
For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear.

Deperaux. I sense you have a real heart for God and I totally appreciate your zeal. Trouble is though you keep on bringing up tons of scripture, yet none of them support what you claim. The kingdom is hear now, not future, Jesus is going to appear to take His people away not walk on earth. Every prophecy concerning Him is fullfilled at His first coming. We are now only awaiting His appeaing and the judgement.

all the best...

[Desperaux]

Deperaux. I sense you have a real heart for God and I totally appreciate your zeal. Trouble is though you keep on bringing up tons of scripture, yet none of them support what you claim. The kingdom is hear now, not future, Jesus is going to appear to take His people away not walk on earth. Every prophecy concerning Him is fullfilled at His first coming. We are now only awaiting His appeaing and the judgement.

all the best...

My dear kay-gee--there is NO support for your claim anywhere. Scripture is clear. Jesus returns and then the Miillennium begins. If Jesus wasn't here to reign, there wouldn't be a Millennium!

The earthly Kingdom is NOT here and now. The Kingdom is within us. There is coming a time of peace on earth where Jesus will reign. You are terribly wrong in your interpretation of Scripture and in fact among the many hundreds of Christians I know, none of them have interpreted the way you and some others here have. It must be your church.

Judgment takes place after His physical reign.

[Firstfruits]

If we are in the millenium, where is the wrath of God?

Where are those that have worshiped the beast and his image, upon whom Gods wrath is poured out?

Where is the kingdom of the beast which must be here when the bottomless pit is opened at the sounding of the 5th angel?

God bless!

Firstfruits

[John146]

In light of all Scripture, Jesus promises to come back and set up His Kingdom on earth and reign physically--with a rod of iron, I might add.

Revelation 19:15
From his mouth came a sharp sword to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. He will release the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty, like juice flowing from a winepress.

To rule with an iron rod is to destroy. At His return Jesus will destroy those who you think He's coming to rule over.

Psalm 2
8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Do you see from this passage what it means to rule with a rod of iron? Can you explain to me how any of them will survive what is compared to being broken and dashed to pieces like a potter's vessel with a rod of iron?

[John146]

My dear kay-gee--there is NO support for your claim anywhere. Scripture is clear. Jesus returns and then the Miillennium begins. If Jesus wasn't here to reign, there wouldn't be a Millennium!

The earthly Kingdom is NOT here and now. The Kingdom is within us. There is coming a time of peace on earth where Jesus will reign. You are terribly wrong in your interpretation of Scripture and in fact among the many hundreds of Christians I know, none of them have interpreted the way you and some others here have. It must be your church.

Judgment takes place after His physical reign.

Can you show me where Jesus Himself spoke of a future earthly kingdom?

[John146]

Not entirely. Jesus Himself says in 1 Corinthians 15:23: But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back.

ORDER! There is no resurrection for the wicked at that time. The Word of God tells us that the wicked are not raised until Judgment after the Millennial Reign of Christ.

The wicked will have their resurrection, but not at the same time as the righteous--as mentioned in Revelation 20:5: But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.


Paul tells us here merely that there is a time for both, but as Jesus says--there is an order to each---not necessarily at the same time.

Acts 24:15
I have the same hope in God that these men have, that he will raise both the righteous and the unrighteous.

Jesus taught that a singular hour or time is coming when all the dead will hear His voice and be raised.

John 5
28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

Notice that He doesn't say two separate times are coming when the dead will be raised. There is one time coming when all who are in the graves will be raised. They will be raised and then gathered for judgment at His coming (Matt 25:31-46).

[Desperaux]

To rule with an iron rod is to destroy. At His return Jesus will destroy those who you think He's coming to rule over.

Psalm 2
8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Do you see from this passage what it means to rule with a rod of iron? Can you explain to me how any of them will survive what is compared to being broken and dashed to pieces like a potter's vessel with a rod of iron?

To rule with a rod of iron is to impart swift, righteous justice on evildoers. The passage in Revelation speaks for itself.