If we are in the millenium?????

[Desperaux]

Can you show me where Jesus Himself spoke of a future earthly kingdom?

The entire book of Revelation is His revelation to John.

[Desperaux]

Jesus taught that a singular hour or time is coming when all the dead will hear His voice and be raised.

John 5
28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

Notice that He doesn't say two separate times are coming when the dead will be raised. There is one time coming when all who are in the graves will be raised. They will be raised and then gathered for judgment at His coming (Matt 25:31-46).

Yep. All the unrighteous dead--in their time--in their order. It doesn;t say they will be raised together, but rather that there is a time coming that they will be raised. In other scripture quoted earlier in the thread, it for certain says that they wuill be raised in their order. We must be discerning.

We know it is at a different time set aside for them, for they will not be judged until after the Church (including the dead in Christ who have been raised before the living in Christ) has reigned 1000 years with Christ. Certainly the wicked dead are not going to be hanging around for a thousand years waiting to be judged by God! There is no place for them to do so!

[John146]

To rule with a rod of iron is to impart swift, righteous justice on evildoers. The passage in Revelation speaks for itself.

Right. And what is that justice? Being destroyed. Unless you somehow think a potter's vessel being dashed to pieces isn't a picture of destruction.

2 Thess 1
7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matt 24
37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

2 Peter 3
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Christ is not coming to rule over His enemies. He is coming to take vengeance on them and destroy them.

[John146]

The entire book of Revelation is His revelation to John.

This doesn't answer my question. Please show me where Jesus spoke of ever having an earthly kingdom.

[Desperaux]

Right. And what is that justice? Being destroyed. Unless you somehow think a potter's vessel being dashed to pieces isn't a picture of destruction.

2 Thess 1
7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matt 24
37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

2 Peter 3
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Christ is not coming to rule over His enemies. He is coming to take vengeance on them and destroy them.

Yep, during the Millennium, Jesus will reign and rule with righteousness and swift, strong justice! Amen!

[Desperaux]

This doesn't answer my question. Please show me where Jesus spoke of ever having an earthly kingdom.

Just read the Book. It is Jesus talking. It takes prayer and spiritual discernment and the Holy Spirit's guidance, but the message is there.

[John146]

Yep. All the unrighteous dead--in their time--in their order. It doesn;t say they will be raised together, but rather that there is a time coming that they will be raised. In other scripture quoted earlier in the thread, it for certain says that they wuill be raised in their order. We must be discerning.

In John 5:28-29 Jesus doesn't just mention the unrighteous dead.

John 5
28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

Jesus taught that a singular time is coming when literally all who are in the graves, saved and lost, will be resurrected. The saved will rise to eternal life. They will have immortal bodies, as Paul taught. The lost will rise to be condemned. They will all be raised at that singular future time that Jesus said is coming. Your view would force the text to say "two separate times are coming when the dead will be raised" but Jesus said "a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out".

[John146]

Just read the Book. It is Jesus talking. It takes prayer and spiritual discernment and the Holy Spirit's guidance, but the message is there.

I have read the book many times, yet I don't come to the same conclusions as you. I have prayed earnestly for God's help in understanding the book and I have the same Spirit in me as you have in you. So, we don't need to go there.

What I was asking for is specific text where Jesus clearly speaks of an earthly kingdom, but I guess you don't have that.

[Raybob]

Just read the Book. It is Jesus talking. It takes prayer and spiritual discernment and the Holy Spirit's guidance, but the message is there.

I read the book and didn't find one reference to an "earthy" kingdom whatsoever.

[Desperaux]

In John 5:28-29 Jesus doesn't just mention the unrighteous dead.

John 5
28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

Jesus taught that a singular time is coming when literally all who are in the graves, saved and lost, will be resurrected. The saved will rise to eternal life. They will have immortal bodies, as Paul taught. The lost will rise to be condemned. They will all be raised at that singular future time that Jesus said is coming. Your view would force the text to say "two separate times are coming when the dead will be raised" but Jesus said "a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out".

It doesn't happen at the same time. No other Scripture will speak of an event congruous with your interpretation.

Jesus shouts and the righteous dead rise, and the living righteous rise immediately after. One event. First resurrection.

Scripture tells us that the wicked dead rise after the Millennium at the Great White Throne Judgment. Second event. Second death.

Revelation 20:4-6
4 Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their forehead or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.

[John146]

Yep, during the Millennium, Jesus will reign and rule with righteousness and swift, strong justice! Amen!

Is that what the passages I quoted teach? It seems to me that those teach that He will deliver strong justice on the day of His coming.

[John146]

It doesn't happen at the same time. No other Scripture will speak of such an event.

Jesus shouts and the righteous dead rise, and the living righteous rise immediately after. One event. First resurrection.

Scripture tells us that the wicked dead rise after the Millennium at the Great White Throne Judgment. Second event. Second death.

Revelation 20:4-6
4 Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their forehead or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.

So, we should just disregard passages like John 5:28-29 and Matthew 25:31-46 then, right? And when Jesus taught that unbelievers will be judged on the same day (the last day) that believers are resurrected, we should not bother taking that into account when reading Rev. 20, correct?

[Desperaux]

Is that what the passages I quoted teach? It seems to me that those teach that He will deliver strong justice on the day of His coming.

Yes, and while He reigns and rules. What's the prob?

[John146]

Yes! What's the prob?

The "prob" is that I disagree with your interpretation of those passages. None of them say anything at all about an earthly kingdom and each speak of Him delivering punishment to unbelievers upon His appearing and not over the course of a long period of time.

[Desperaux]

I have read the book many times, yet I don't come to the same conclusions as you. I have prayed earnestly for God's help in understanding the book and I have the same Spirit in me as you have in you. So, we don't need to go there.

What I was asking for is specific text where Jesus clearly speaks of an earthly kingdom, but I guess you don't have that.

It doesn't matter whether we agree totally on eschatological matters, in the scheme of things. It has no effect on salvation. what does matter is the behaviour of the children of God in hashing these things out--calling people out as if they were in dire spiritual error is disgusting.

No, Jesus doesn't verbally speak of a lot of things, but His Word teaches it nonetheless.