If we are in the millenium?????

[Desperaux]

In my spirit too.


Bible does not say that.

The scriptures posted in the OP are clear. The Lord does teach us to be alert and sober for the devil seeks to steal, kill and destroy. The best way he can do that is to deceive us with lies...nice-sounding ones that give the impression that he is no threat to our salvation or our blessing in knowing Jesus Christ as Lord.

[Instrument]

The scriptures posted in the OP are clear. The Lord does teach us to be alert and sober for the devil seeks to steal, kill and destroy. The best way he can do that is to deceive us with lies...nice-sounding ones that give the impression that he is no threat to our salvation or our blessing in knowing Jesus Christ as Lord.

Also I say it.

Unfortunately my English is not very good. But this matter should be
addressed seriously in the light of Scripture.


Blessings.

[Desperaux]

Also I say it.

Unfortunately my English is not very good. But this matter should be
addressed seriously in the light of Scripture.


Blessings.

Read the OP again, then. Scripture is clear.

[Instrument]

Read the OP again, then. Scripture is clear.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit And a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and Set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that I must be loose to little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw throne, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, And which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.



This has already happened. Christ descended into the abyss, after dying on the cross went into the abyss and then resurrected.

[Desperaux]

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit And a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and Set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that I must be loose to little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw throne, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, And which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.



This has already happened. Christ descended into the abyss, after dying on the cross went into the abyss and then resurrected.

That is absolutely false.

Jesus never descended into any abyss. He went to Hades (the grave), the place of the dead to reveal Himself to those OT saints who were looking to the Messiah as their Messiah, and to gather them, and set them free to enter heaven with Him, as He alone has the keys to life and death.

Revelation 1:18
I am the living one. I died, but look—I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and the grave.

The abyss is a totally separate place where Satan will be kept for a thousand years, which has yet to occur, and it is obvious in keeping with the verse that you have already quoted:

Revelation 20:1-4
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pit[and a heavy chain in his hand. 2 He seized the dragon—that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan—and bound him in chains for a thousand years. 3 The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he must be released for a little while. 4 Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their forehead or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.



When has the beast revealed himself? Did we miss him?

Where is his likeness or statue? Did I miss it?

What is this mark in the hand or forehead? When have we had the opportunity to accept or reject it in Christ?

Where are the dead in Christ alive again?

I think it is very difficult for some people to understand Revelation when John records his vision in the past tense. I think that may be your problem in interpreting the book.

[webhead]

That is absolutely false.

Jesus never descended into any abyss. He went to Hades (the grave), the place of the dead to reveal Himself to those OT saints who were looking to the Messiah as their Messiah, and to gather them, and set them free to enter heaven with Him, as He alone has the keys to life and death.

Revelation 1:18
I am the living one. I died, but look—I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and the grave.

The abyss is a totally separate place where Satan will be kept for a thousand years, which has yet to occur, and it is obvious in keeping with the verse that you have already quoted:

Revelation 20:1-4
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pit[and a heavy chain in his hand. 2 He seized the dragon—that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan—and bound him in chains for a thousand years. 3 The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he must be released for a little while. 4 Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their forehead or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.



When has the beast revealed himself? Did we miss him?

Where is his likeness or statue? Did I miss it?

What is this mark in the hand or forehead? When have we had the opportunity to accept or reject it in Christ?

Where are the dead in Christ alive again?

I think it is very difficult for some people to understand Revelation when John records his vision in the past tense. I think that may be your problem in interpreting the book.

Amen.

Jesus’ suffering ended the moment He died. The payment for sin was paid at Calvary. He then awaited the resurrection of His body and His return to His glory in His ascension. Did Jesus go to Hell? No. Did Jesus go to Sheol / Hades(the grave)? Yes. Some Christians may use the Apostles Creed to substantiate their claims about Jesus descending into hell but they shouldn't. Because in light of Scripture Jesus didn't descend into hell. Although the Apostles' Creed is a good summary of Christian doctrine, it is not found in the Bible. The Apostles’ Creed was not written by the apostles. Rather, it was written at least 150 years after the apostles had all died.

[Instrument]

That is absolutely false.

Jesus never descended into any abyss. He went to Hades (the grave), the place of the dead to reveal Himself to those OT saints who were looking to the Messiah as their Messiah, and to gather them, and set them free to enter heaven with Him, as He alone has the keys to life and death.

Revelation 1:18
I am the living one. I died, but look—I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and the grave.

The abyss is a totally separate place where Satan will be kept for a thousand years, which has yet to occur, and it is obvious in keeping with the verse that you have already quoted:

Revelation 20:1-4
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pit[and a heavy chain in his hand. 2 He seized the dragon—that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan—and bound him in chains for a thousand years. 3 The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he must be released for a little while. 4 Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their forehead or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.



When has the beast revealed himself? Did we miss him?

Where is his likeness or statue? Did I miss it?

What is this mark in the hand or forehead? When have we had the opportunity to accept or reject it in Christ?

Where are the dead in Christ alive again?

I think it is very difficult for some people to understand Revelation when John records his vision in the past tense. I think that may be your problem in interpreting the book.

obviously you do not know the Scripture.


the grave is not the abyss. The confession of the Christian faith is clear: Christ died, descended into hades and then resurrected.


10:6 But the righteousness Which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, Which We Preach: 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Blessings

[billy-brown 2]

I don't think we ought to be gauging things by Satan. If Jesus isn't reigning yet on earth, then we aren't in the Millennium!

The Millennium doesn't come about until after the return of Jesus Christ. I think we will know it when that happens!

Until then, this discussion is moot.

Desperaux,

Here are several translations of Rev. 20:4:

NIV©
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

NAS©
Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

WEY
And I saw thrones, and some who were seated on them, to whom judgment was entrusted. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded on account of the testimony that they had borne to Jesus and on account of God's Message, and also the souls of those who had not worshipped the Wild Beast or his statue, nor received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands; and they came to Life and were kings with Christ for a thousand years.

ISV©
Then I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. They came back to life and ruled with the Messiah for a thousand years.

GWT©
I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were allowed to judge. Then I saw the souls of those whose heads had been cut off because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its statue and were not branded on their foreheads or hands. They lived and ruled with Christ for 1,000 years.

KJV
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

AKJ
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark on their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

ASV
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

BBE
And I saw high seats, and they were seated on them, and the right of judging was given to them: and I saw the souls of those who were put to death for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and those who did not give worship to the beast, or to his image, and had not his mark on their brows or on their hands; and they were living and ruling with Christ a thousand years.

DRB
And I saw seats; and they sat upon them; and judgment was given unto them; and the souls of them that were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not adored the beast nor his image, nor received his character on their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

DBY
And I saw thrones; and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them; and the souls of those beheaded on account of the testimony of Jesus, and on account of the word of God; and those who had not done homage to the beast nor to his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and hand; and they lived and reigned with the Christ a thousand years:

ERV
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

WBS
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

WEB
I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn't worship the beast nor his image, and didn't receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived, and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

YLT
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand, and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years;

Now, the red matter in these translations is the sticking point, yes?

Indeed, almost all who believe in two physical general resurrections favor the first four translations on this list, while those who believe in one physical general resurrection favor the other translations.

However, look at Rev. 20:5:

5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

So, a great concept is expressed with this verse, yes? Notice this phrase: "the rest of the DEAD . . ."

Thus, Rev. 20:4-6 deals with what two groups of DEAD people are now doing:

1) The rest of the DEAD are non-Christian, and are not living at all (during a "1000-year" "binding" of Satan).
2) The Christian DEAD, however, are living now in heaven although having been beheaded while on earth by the Beast (during a "1000-year" "binding" of Satan).

So, how can the DEAD live . . . while DEAD?

Well, let's look at Rev. 20: 6:

6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Thus, these DEAD people in verse 6 were beheaded (see Rev. 20:4)--since they died at the hands of the Beast of Rev. 13. Also, though DEAD, they . . . reign with Him for a "thousand years."

So, the reign of these DEAD people has a clear time limit--a "1000-years" with Christ, yes?

On the other hand, Christ's reign is limitless and eternal, yes?

Since His resurrection/ascension, Christ Jesus has already been reigning, and reigns currently FOREVER. Indeed, Christ has been reigning for at least 2000 years so far at the Father's right hand in an ETERNAL HEAVENLY sanctuary.

And this reign of Christ affects the earth now (from this heavenly tabernacle) without Him being physically present on the earth.

Do you understand?

Look at Heb. 8:1-5 concerning this:

1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.
3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer.
4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law;
5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “SEE,” He says, “THAT YOU MAKE all things ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN WHICH WAS SHOWN YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN.”

Now, can you imagine this eternal tabernacle of Heb. 8:1-2 being destroyed at all? The answer seems to be that NO ONE will destroy it.

This is the reason I have suggested that Jesus' rule is not limited to "1000 years" at all.

Indeed, His rule has been already since His resurrection/ascension, and is forever, and His vindication by YHWH in this is crystal clear (see the red words in Eph. 1:18-21):

Eph. 1:18-21 (from Paul):
18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
19 and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might
20 which He (YHWH) brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

So, what is the dividing line between these "two ages" in verse 21 above? Is it not "the resurrection from the dead" of Luke 20?

Luke 20
34 Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage,
35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
36 for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Now, the resurrection of the dead of Luke 20 has not happened yet, because it happens concurrently with the Second Coming of Christ, and Second Coming of Christ has not happened yet, yes?

Look at Phil 3:20-21 concerning this:

20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;
21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

The first resurrection, therefore, can not be physical, because it deals with what the "souls of DEAD people" are doing (coming to life and ruling with Christ "1000 years") or not doing (not coming to life and ruling with Christ "1000 years") right now.

So, in closing, consider James, the great martyr of Christ during the days of the book of Acts:

Acts 12
1 Now about that time Herod the king laid hands on some who belonged to the church in order to mistreat them.
2 And he had James the brother of John put to death with a sword.
3 When he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded to arrest Peter also. Now it was during the days of Unleavened Bread.
4 When he had seized him, he put him in prison, delivering him to four squads of soldiers to guard him, intending after the Passover to bring him out before the people.
5 So Peter was kept in the prison, but prayer for him was being made fervently by the church to God.

Now, James the brother of John was martyred by Herod--in the first century. Tradition indicates also that this occurred by beheading. (See the Matthew Henry Commentary and other sources.)

Since James the brother of John was martyred by Herod in the 1st century, would this make James one of the many martyrs that are reigning currently with Christ?

If so, then the "1000 years" can not be future from now.

After all, does James the brother of John have the glorified body of eternal salvation spoken of in Phil 3:21 at the present time?

All of this has great implications for the OP.

[nzyr]

With these things in mind, are we in the millennium?

No we're not in the millennium yet. It won't begin until the second coming of Jesus Christ. Here's some scriptures that refer to the millennium:

And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. -Zechariah 14:9

And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. -Isaiah 2:4

The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. -Isaiah 11:6-7

And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. -Ezekiel 37:24-25

[Instrument]

No we're not in the millennium yet. It won't begin until the second coming of Jesus Christ. Here's some scriptures that refer to the millennium:

And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. -Zechariah 14:9

And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. -Isaiah 2:4

The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. -Isaiah 11:6-7

And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. -Ezekiel 37:24-25

Zechariah 14 does not speak of a millennial kingdom.
There will be a visitation on Jews in last times, but is different of a literal kingdom for 1,000 years.

There is not the word "millennium" in Zechariah 14.


Blessings.

[Desperaux]

obviously you do not know the Scripture.


the grave is not the abyss. The confession of the Christian faith is clear: Christ died, descended into hades and then resurrected.


10:6 But the righteousness Which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, Which We Preach: 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Blessings

I know Scripture! I have walked with Jesus for 47 years!

I have never spoken of the abyss as the grave. Jesus went to the grave, or Sheol, or Hades, to the place of the righteous dead. Jesus NEVER went to the abyss---that is the place for Satan.

I guess you didn't really read my post.

[Instrument]

I know Scripture! I have walked with Jesus for 47 years!

I have never spoken of the abyss as the grave. Jesus went to the grave, or Sheol, or Hades, to the place of the righteous dead. Jesus NEVER went to the abyss---that is the place for Satan.

I guess you didn't really read my post.

wait, the grave is not hades. The grave is not seol.
seol= hades but is not the grave.

the grave is THE GRAVE. ¿do i make me understand?
hades is place into the abyss. Jesus went to hades.



Bless you.

[nzyr]

Zechariah 14 does not speak of a millennial kingdom.
There will be a visitation on Jews in last times, but is different of a literal kingdom for 1,000 years.

There is not the word "millennium" in Zechariah 14.

I believe it does. These things won't happen until the second coming of Jesus...

And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. -Zechariah 14:8-11

[Instrument]

I believe it does. These things won't happen until the second coming of Jesus...

And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. -Zechariah 14:8-11

Greetings.

I think Zac 14 will happen after that the fullness of the Gentiles have entered to the Kingdom of God, then God will remove the hardening of the Jews.

But this will happen just before the Second Coming of Christ.


Blessings.

[Desperaux]

wait, the grave is not hades. The grave is not seol.
seol= hades but is not the grave.

the grave is THE GRAVE. ¿do i make me understand?
hades is place into the abyss. Jesus went to hades.



Bless you.

Sorry, but you are making an error. You seem to need a bit more study and seeking to understand, I believe. Hades and Sheol are synonymous with the grave all throughout Scripture.

The Abyss is the pit that is created for Satan and His angels.

Revelation 9:2
When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss.


Nowhere in Scripture does it ever say that Jesus entered the Abyss, a place of torment!