Joshua-Judges

[Richardlss]

Im going to number list a few question because I tend to get carried away in drawn out sentences Im having trouble understanding Joshua 24.

1. (Joshua 24:2 And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.)
Q. "Other side of the flood"? what exactly does that mean? Flood of Noah was generations before Abram.
Q. Abram's father's Terah and Nachor served other gods?
2. (Joshua 24:3 I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his seed, and gave him Isaac.)
Q. Canaan would be the land of Israel later correct?
Q. Abram also had a son Ishmael through the egypt servent to Sarah. Ishmael almost died and God said before Sarah's servent that Ishmael's seed would be multiplied. I've read elsewhere that muslum's believe Ishmael's seed is the chosen people instead of Abrams lineage through Isaac and Jacob/Israel which later begot Christ. Muslims say Ishmaels lineage begot Muhammed? So WHY is it that Joshua 24:3 only mentions Isaac as Abraham's son?
3. (Judges 1:1 Now after the death of Joshua it came to pass, that the children of Israel asked the LORD, saying, Who shall go up for us against the Canaanites first, to fight against them?)
Q. I thought that Joshua led them to the Canaanite's and defeated them? Maybe I've just missunderstood Joshua 23 because GOD gave them rest from their enemies, and Joshua began to divide up the land?
4. Joshua 22... Whats the deal with the Children of Gad and Reuben? They didnt want to fight so God said he would punish them by walking 40 years in the wilderness until the earth consumes them, OR fight and be forgiven and get the land across from Jordan before the land promised to Israel. So they chose to fight and live. And then built an Altar for God, which enraged the other 10 tribes of Israel? So much they wanted to go to war with Gad and Reuben. Reuben explained it wasnt a Burnt offering altar but an altar to show generations to come the witness between the 2 tribes and the other 10 tribes of Israel... I think? But as I said whats the deal with Gad and Reuben? Ungrateful?

Beyond those questions...

Tabernacles were sacred shrines for the lord which only the family of Levites could enter? If anyone else or anyone of sin were to touch or go in would certainly die? Am I correct on that? I believe it is written in Numbers about it... and I've heard from someone that someone was walking near the tabernacle and it was about to collapse over and they tried catching what seemed to be falling but when they touched it they died?


And just a last note from Joshua, The walls of Jericho comming down was amazing to read

Im sure I had more questions but I've lost myself in this LONG post... I hope to get some good feedback, thank you all for reading and your input!

[jayne]

1. (Joshua 24:2 And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.)
Q. "Other side of the flood"? what exactly does that mean? Flood of Noah was generations before Abram.

This is the Hebrew word, נהר (Nahar), better translated as "river", specifically the Euphrates River.

Q. Abram's father's Terah and Nachor served other gods?

Ur, according to most historians, was a place of moon god worship. This is one reason that God told Abram to get away from his family.

2. (Joshua 24:3 I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his seed, and gave him Isaac.)
Q. Canaan would be the land of Israel later correct?

And parts of modern day Palestine, Egypt, and some others nations.

Q. Abram also had a son Ishmael through the egypt servent to Sarah. Ishmael almost died and God said before Sarah's servent that Ishmael's seed would be multiplied. I've read elsewhere that muslum's believe Ishmael's seed is the chosen people instead of Abrams lineage through Isaac and Jacob/Israel which later begot Christ. Muslims say Ishmaels lineage begot Muhammed? So WHY is it that Joshua 24:3 only mentions Isaac as Abraham's son?

Because Isaac is the son of the promise. Ishmael is not.

In Genesis 22, Isaac is referred to three times, by God, as Abraham's only son.

3. (Judges 1:1 Now after the death of Joshua it came to pass, that the children of Israel asked the LORD, saying, Who shall go up for us against the Canaanites first, to fight against them?)
Q. I thought that Joshua led them to the Canaanite's and defeated them? Maybe I've just missunderstood Joshua 23 because GOD gave them rest from their enemies, and Joshua began to divide up the land?

Many, many times in the Old Testament (I'm thinking of 1 and 2 Kings), the term "rest from their enemies" refers to a time of no war - not necessarily a time when enemies have been wiped out.

4. Joshua 22... Whats the deal with the Children of Gad and Reuben? They didnt want to fight so God said he would punish them by walking 40 years in the wilderness until the earth consumes them, OR fight and be forgiven and get the land across from Jordan before the land promised to Israel. So they chose to fight and live. And then built an Altar for God, which enraged the other 10 tribes of Israel? So much they wanted to go to war with Gad and Reuben. Reuben explained it wasnt a Burnt offering altar but an altar to show generations to come the witness between the 2 tribes and the other 10 tribes of Israel... I think? But as I said whats the deal with Gad and Reuben? Ungrateful?

The 10 other tribes thought that they were practicing pagan worship and worried that God was going to strike them all dead for it. So they got mad before they got all of the facts and threatened to go to war with their own people.

The Reubenites and Gadites explained that they didn't want future generations to think that the Jordan River was a dividing line between those tribes God loved and those He rejected. They built an altar to keep the lines of communication open with the 10 tribes across the river - as a reminder to future generations that all of the tribes, whether separated by the Jordan River or not are all God's people.

Beyond those questions...

Tabernacles were sacred shrines for the lord which only the family of Levites could enter? If anyone else or anyone of sin were to touch or go in would certainly die? Am I correct on that? I believe it is written in Numbers about it... and I've heard from someone that someone was walking near the tabernacle and it was about to collapse over and they tried catching what seemed to be falling but when they touched it they died?

There was just one Tabernacle, or Tent of Meeting. It was a place for God to physically reside (as a cloud, or smoke...) with His people. It was a forerunner of the Temple, which was a permanent structure.

http://www.bibletruth.net/florlane/T...e/tabernac.htm

What you are thinking of is the ark of the covenant. It held the Ten Commandments, the rod of Aaron, and a jar of mannah (sp?)

It could only be carried by Levites. And yes, there is a passage in 2 Samuel 6, about a group of people bringing the ark back to King David and the ark slipping and the man who reached out to steady it was killed by merely touching it.

King David had a pity party for a little while before bringing it back. That's another lesson all together.

[Richardlss]

Ur, according to most historians, was a place of moon god worship. This is one reason that God told Abram to get away from his family.

Is Ur the place where Joseph married the egyptian woman? (southern egypt?) the sheep herders?

Because Isaac is the son of the promise. Ishmael is not.

But Jacob and Esau sons of Isaac. Jacob continued the lineage, and Esau went elsewhere became a prince elsewhere and begot prince's i've read... But yet unlike Ishmael and Isaac, both Jacob and Esau are recognized as Isaac's son, but only Isaac is said to be Abrahams purely because he carried the Lineage? But yet "he begot he, begot he, etc..." and the Generations of the 12 tribes are mentioned throughout Numbers and Joshua, So im having trouble undestanding why its more important to mention the generations of the tribes of Israel, and Jacob and Esau, but not mention Ishmael being Abrahams.

Thats all the questions i had with your responses, the rest of them were great answers! Thank you jayne

[JohnDB]

JOS 24:2 Joshua said to all the people, "Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, ‘From ancient times your fathers lived beyond the 1 River, namely, b Terah, the father of Abraham and the father of Nahor, and they served other gods.
JOS 24:3 ‘Then c I took your father Abraham from beyond the 2 River, and led him through all the land of Canaan, and d multiplied his 3 descendants and gave him e Isaac.

Here is a NASB translation that seems a bit more accurate than the translation that you are using...I am also going to reccomend the NIV or some other translation than the one that you seem to be currently using...I am not sure where that one you have came from...but there seems to be some innacuracies that are giving you trouble.

And Ur is in the land of the Chaldeans. That is over in the area known as Iraq now. It all is part of an area known as the Fertile Cresent. It was considered at one time to be the "known world" and thus...it is sometimes referred to as north when they really mean west...

[Richardlss]

JohnDB, im using King James Version, I actually like reading it more than the other ones... Its not really the translations on Joshua giving me problems, its my lack of knowledge of it... I was unaware of Abram's fathers worshiping a different god, and just why only Isaac was mentioned. I've said before that im just reading the bible for the first time and its alot of knowledge to take in... and being a first go around its hard to understand how things were done in the old testament!

[JohnDB]

JohnDB, im using King James Version, I actually like reading it more than the other ones... Its not really the translations on Joshua giving me problems, its my lack of knowledge of it... I was unaware of Abram's fathers worshiping a different god, and just why only Isaac was mentioned. I've said before that im just reading the bible for the first time and its alot of knowledge to take in... and being a first go around its hard to understand how things were done in the old testament!

I agree it is a lot of knowledge to try to absorb.

One of the things that is difficult also is the King James English.
Tera (Abraham's father) didn't worship the Moon God or other gods in that neighborhood even though the rest of them that lived in that neighborhood did. It is just a quirk of King James English and the Hebrew language mixed together versus modern writing styles that can be very confusing.
The "call" to move from Ur to another Land was likely from Shem (Noah's son) himself who outlived Abraham by 75 years. But the idioms of speech in the Hebrew language and customs allows for this to be said in such a fashion as to make it very difficult to acertain this. you would have to create a time line to see this.

You are doing a great Job though studying and reading all of this. The manner you actually are following is actually a very very old learning style known as Halak (Hebrew for walk) and it is where you ask questions and the answers are found. Sometimes the answers must come from those with a bit of Anthropology, geography, and historic knowledge...many of the answers you have also come from the scriptures themselves.
Often the answers to the questions you find create more questions...which in turn the answers only create even more questions...a never ending cycle.
Keep going...you are doing better than most ever do.

[Richardlss]

Thank you JohnDB is good to get a compliment But i see what your saying about answers being somewhere in the scriptures, I just have to get there first I've understood that 1 question equals 1 answer and that 1 answer equals 5 more questions and so on, and its a good way to get your brain heated up! The problem is, when I read through the bible and later when I read through it again I'll find 1,000 more questions!!!

[JohnDB]

Thank you JohnDB is good to get a compliment But i see what your saying about answers being somewhere in the scriptures, I just have to get there first I've understood that 1 question equals 1 answer and that 1 answer equals 5 more questions and so on, and its a good way to get your brain heated up! The problem is, when I read through the bible and later when I read through it again I'll find 1,000 more questions!!!

LOL...been there and done that...

But the best way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time...

But, like you, I do try the "spaghetti cooked?" method...throw it all up at the cieling or wall and whatever sticks is done...It usually creates a situation where you have to go back and relearn some things...an ability to admit you are wrong sometimes is an ability most prized by God...and highly respected by those of a true understanding of scripture.

"Spaghetti cooked" isn't the most reccomended method...but it sorta works too.

Just know that just about each book of the Bible has at least one encyclopedia set worth of book commentaries on every single last one of them. Some are OK...some aren't. Some are full of opinion and morality lessons. I tend to stick with the ones that only provide contextual aides such as ones pertaining to grammar, construction, anthropology, History, Geography, and ancient writings explaining their lines of thoughts/theologies. None of which is considered "light reading" LOL...but the opinions and morality that is taught to me by scripture tends to be a lot different than some denominations teach. (well...ok...just about all of them if not all) But I am more interested in the text and what it says, how it says it, why it says it the way that it says it, when it said it and to whom it was said than any theology system out there.

You don't have to go that far with your studies...everyone has their limits. Yours are determined by you. Some answers don't come easy...I got questions that are ones that take a bit of time to find the answers for. (most don't know these questions exist) Tedious, painstaking research involving huge chunks of scripture and information...(curiosity may have killed the cat but satisfaction brought him back) (but you did touch on one result tonight of some of miy research...the revealing of God/Jesus) I figure I'll be done when I get to Heaven.

[Richardlss]

Trying to think of a word to fit what you said... You list off aides for better understanding the Bible, and describe going that step further isnt "light reading" when the Bible is no "light reading" itself I chuckled after reading that.

I try to break down everything I can, with everything I do: Why do something if your not going to give it your all? Or try your best? I open up the bible to Moses or Joshua and read the words, If i dont understand I read again, if still nothing then I Wikipedia it to get a general idea, Ask my coworker or dad, see if theres an interpretation for the verse, and if im still not satisfied then I come here where the last 3 threads have been answered and im satisfied Later it would be good for me to find other reference books, but for now this method is working great... Oh and I did get an audio on CD from a friend and I found out later that even though the guy seemed pretty knowledgable I turned away from it because of him not believing the Trinity, and believing the "serpent seed", and his teachings reflected it...

Now off to take my mucinex before my lungs explode!!!!!!!!

[Richardlss]

Hey JohnDB, I have no clue how to turn on private messages... In my User CP theres only an option to recieve e-mails... but nothing about private messages through here?