Judgment was given to them!!!!!!

[Firstfruits]

According to the following scripture it states that judment was given to them, however it does not say that they were judged.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The following scripture should explain what is meant by judgment was given to them.

1 Cor 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1 Cor 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

I hope that helps regarding judgment in Revelation 20:4

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[divaD]

According to the following scripture it states that judment was given to them, however it does not say that they were judged.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The following scripture should explain what is meant by judgment was given to them.

1 Cor 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1 Cor 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

I hope that helps regarding judgment in Revelation 20:4

God bless you!

Firstfruits

FF, out of curiosity, when do you believe that the saints shall begin judging the world per 1 Cor 6? Since you apparently link this to Rev 20:4, would the saints start judging the world before or after Christ returns? I guess that's what I'm getting at.

[Firstfruits]

FF, out of curiosity, when do you believe that the saints shall begin judging the world per 1 Cor 6? Since you apparently link this to Rev 20:4, would the saints start judging the world before or after Christ returns? I guess that's what I'm getting at.

According to Revelation 20 judgment is not until after the millenium is finished and the gathering for the final battle has been fulfilled.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[divaD]

According to Revelation 20 judgment is not until after the millenium is finished and the gathering for the final battle has been fulfilled.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years


Notice the ':' in that verse. This tells us that 'And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them' has a direct connection to the remainder of the verse.

What does the remainder of the verse tell us in relation to the 1000 yrs?

and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Obviously this living and reigning with Christ would have to begin when the 1000 yrs begins, correct? If they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years after the 1000 yrs was complete, that sort of defeats the whole purpose of living and reigning during the 1000 yrs, does it not?


So why would you conclude that judgment was given to them at the end of the 1000 yrs, when nowhere in that verse even states that, nor even implies that?


If your conclusions were correct, then perhaps verse 7 should have stated something like this:

7 And when the thousand years are expired, I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them, and Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Wouldn't it just be much simpler to stick with what is written? Verse
4 tells us the judgment was given to them at the beginning of the 1000 yrs. Why change that?

[Firstfruits]

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years


Notice the ':' in that verse. This tells us that 'And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them' has a direct connection to the remainder of the verse.

What does the remainder of the verse tell us in relation to the 1000 yrs?

and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Obviously this living and reigning with Christ would have to begin when the 1000 yrs begins, correct? If they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years after the 1000 yrs was complete, that sort of defeats the whole purpose of living and reigning during the 1000 yrs, does it not?


So why would you conclude that judgment was given to them at the end of the 1000 yrs, when nowhere in that verse even states that, nor even implies that?


If your conclusions were correct, then perhaps verse 7 should have stated something like this:

7 And when the thousand years are expired, I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them, and Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Wouldn't it just be much simpler to stick with what is written? Verse
4 tells us the judgment was given to them at the beginning of the 1000 yrs. Why change that?

With the understanding that after the millenium is judgment those in the first resurrection are ready to judge. As I said before they are not being judged or judging during the millenium but they have been give the job to do so as was promised.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Which other judgment is there that they could judge the world?

1 Cor 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1 Cor 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[divaD]

With the understanding that after the millenium is judgment those in the first resurrection are ready to judge. As I said before they are not being judged or judging during the millenium but they have been give the job to do so as was promised.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Which other judgment is there that they could judge the world?

1 Cor 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1 Cor 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?

God bless you!

Firstfruits

FF, apparently you are misunderstanding me. So let me start over by stating this. I agree with your conclusion that this judgment is related to those 2 verses you supplied. I feel you made a very good point there. This is the reason I asked my very first question to you in this thread.

FF, out of curiosity, when do you believe that the saints shall begin judging the world per 1 Cor 6? Since you apparently link this to Rev 20:4, would the saints start judging the world before or after Christ returns? I guess that's what I'm getting at.

Then you stated:

According to Revelation 20 judgment is not until after the millenium is finished and the gathering for the final battle has been fulfilled.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

I'm simply pointing out, according to what is written in Rev 20:4, your conclusions would be incorrect, because it shows judgment was given to them at the beginning of the 1000 yrs, not at the ending of it. This of course throws a monkey wrench into your position, because you believe this judgment given, occurs upon Christ's return, which indeed it does, except you claim this judgment given them occurs after the 1000 yrs, when in fact, Rev 20:4 shows just the opposite. This would have to mean that Christ returns pre the 1000 years, and not post the 1000 yrs.

[T W Taylor]

Hello Firstfruits, and David, You are both right, Judgment was given after the tribulations when Jesus returns. At the start of the 1,000 year reign of Christ and His bride. It don’t say Jesus fired them all at the end of the 1,000 years. At the end of the 1,000 years will be the second resurrection, (the rest of the dead live after the 1,000 years) Then Satan will be set lose to deceive all the nations again. So looks like the Judging job during the 1,000 would just be practice for the job after the 1,000 years
Troy W Taylor

[Firstfruits]

FF, apparently you are misunderstanding me. So let me start over by stating this. I agree with your conclusion that this judgment is related to those 2 verses you supplied. I feel you made a very good point there. This is the reason I asked my very first question to you in this thread.




Then you stated:




I'm simply pointing out, according to what is written in Rev 20:4, your conclusions would be incorrect, because it shows judgment was given to them at the beginning of the 1000 yrs, not at the ending of it. This of course throws a monkey wrench into your position, because you believe this judgment given, occurs upon Christ's return, which indeed it does, except you claim this judgment given them occurs after the 1000 yrs, when in fact, Rev 20:4 shows just the opposite. This would have to mean that Christ returns pre the 1000 years, and not post the 1000 yrs.

Thanks DivaD,

What I am pointing out is that they are given the job of judging which they will perform at the time of judgment, so the begining of the millenium is not judgment, which takes place when the millenium is finished.

I hope that is a bit clearer.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Firstfruits]

Hello Firstfruits, and David, You are both right, Judgment was given after the tribulations when Jesus returns. At the start of the 1,000 year reign of Christ and His bride. It don’t say Jesus fired them all at the end of the 1,000 years. At the end of the 1,000 years will be the second resurrection, (the rest of the dead live after the 1,000 years) Then Satan will be set lose to deceive all the nations again. So looks like the Judging job during the 1,000 would just be practice for the job after the 1,000 years
Troy W Taylor

Thanks T.W. Taylor,

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[divaD]

Thanks DivaD,

What I am pointing out is that they are given the job of judging which they will perform at the time of judgment, so the begining of the millenium is not judgment, which takes place when the millenium is finished.

I hope that is a bit clearer.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

FF, I just don't think we're on the same page here. In Rev 20 it speaks of the WTJ. Do you feel saints will take part in that, where they are among the ones judging the condemned?


Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

From what I can tell, and in accordance with other Scriptures, God is the sole judge here. The judgment that the saints are given in Rev 20:4, this would have nothing to do with the WTJ. With that in mind, the judgment was given to the saints pre the 1000 yrs, and not post. Read Daniel ch 7 for more insight.

[Firstfruits]

FF, I just don't think we're on the same page here. In Rev 20 it speaks of the WTJ. Do you feel saints will take part in that, where they are among the ones judging the condemned?


Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

From what I can tell, and in accordance with other Scriptures, God is the sole judge here. The judgment that the saints are given in Rev 20:4, this would have nothing to do with the WTJ. With that in mind, the judgment was given to the saints pre the 1000 yrs, and not post. Read Daniel ch 7 for more insight.

At what point would the following scripture take place if not at the WTJ?

Mt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Lk 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jesus will give the authority for those that have followed him to judge according to his gospel.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[pinky]

According to the following scripture it states that judment was given to them, however it does not say that they were judged.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The following scripture should explain what is meant by judgment was given to them.

1 Cor 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1 Cor 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

I hope that helps regarding judgment in Revelation 20:4

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Some verses from Daniel 7 to add to that....


Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

[Firstfruits]

Some verses from Daniel 7 to add to that....


Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Thank you for the scriptures Pinky,

All agreed.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[pinky]

You're most welcome.

Glod bless you too.

In Christ our Risen Lord,
pinky