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Thread: Do Muslims & Christians Have the Same God?

  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by danm View Post
    Where does Jesus say " I am God, worship me " ?.

    Dan.
    Jesus accepted worship, and He knew that worship was due only to God! The angels rebuked men when they tried to worship them, but Jesus did not rebuke anyone for worshipping Him.
    * Sola scriptura, sola gratia , sola fide, solas Christus, sola deo gloria
    * Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee -- Isaiah 26:3
    * vja4Him Apologetics Blogs

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by danm View Post
    I don't think so.

    Jesus is saying he is The son of God and always refers to The Father or my Father. He states that he is "The son" of man and will be at the right hand of Power, meaning God, if he was saying he is God how could he sit beside himself ?.

    Dan.
    Doesn't the phrase, "at the right hand of power of God" really mean something like Jesus would actually have the power of God, and the authority of God, and that He (Jesus) will be the ultimate Judge?
    * Sola scriptura, sola gratia , sola fide, solas Christus, sola deo gloria
    * Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee -- Isaiah 26:3
    * vja4Him Apologetics Blogs

  3. #78
    No, the emphasis is on the word "at". The meaning would be different if it began with the word "with".

    Dan.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by danm View Post
    No, the emphasis is on the word "at". The meaning would be different if it began with the word "with".

    Dan.
    Well, 'with' would signify some sort of in addition to; something external coming into relation. The word is rendered 'at' and is consonant with what vja4him has said / asked. Meaning that Jesus has the actual power and authority of God (intrinsic power and authority), which entails the reality that Jesus is God. I suppose it could also be that Jesus was with the 'right hand of God' in the sense that Jesus was imbued with God's power and authority. However, that would entail God making a man on level with Himself, as Jesus is capable of doing things only God can do, and that's nonsense.

    Or, that could be a whole load of nonsense and you're arguing semantics in English when you should be looking at the Greek.

  5. #80
    The word "at" in this instance is implying a relative position.The word "with" however would imply possession. God being the ultimate Judge.

    John 14:28 "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."

    Dan.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by danm View Post
    The word "at" in this instance is implying a relative position.The word "with" however would imply possession.

    John 14:28 "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."

    Dan.
    Yes, however it's a figure of speech, it's not literally implying a relative position. God doesn't have a literal right hand (well, I suppose it's anthropomorphic). The phrase is an expression of how God exercises His authority. If we assume your view of Jesus then we must believe that Jesus was given God's power (by God Himself). Necessarily, then, a man - Jesus - has been exalted into the position of God; given the name Y-H-W-H. That's simply nonsense. As I also stated you have to be careful with the word 'with' as it can relate intrinsic possession or imbued possession.

    With respect to John 14:28, the word used for greater (meizon) does not mean a greater type of being, but rather greater in the sense of authority or position. This is the obvious case as God, in Heaven, is greater than Jesus, who is on earth (at the time that was said). However, now the case is that Jesus is in Heaven, at the right hand of the Father (I refer back to Aquinas), hence our rejoicing.

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven3 View Post
    Hi Desperaux Is there any verse in the Bible that says that demons are empowered by belief in them? If that is the case then that is the exact opposite of the famous line from the film The Usual Suspects where Kevin Spacey quotes a revivalist pastor from a story by Baudelaire (in the story "Le Joueur généreux") saying "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist!" .
    Who cares about some secular movie?

    I wasn't stating belief that simply believing in demons empowers them in a person. Allah is Satanic. Those who follow Allah are being led by the satanic. These poor people don't even know what is leading them! They need freedom in Christ.


    But Islam abhors carved idols more than Christianity.
    Prove it.

    How many Protestant churches have pictures of Jesus and crosses (I have no problem with this at all!), to the muslim view that is a graven image no different from statues of Mary or icons of Saints.
    That is RELIGIOSITY. God abhors that also, and so do many Spirit-filled believers who are sensitive to the Lord in these areas.

    + God then goes on in Isaiah to say there is "no other God" with whom he could share, "not one".

    Going back to the Bible, we still only have Paul's words in Acts17 treating people seeking Zeus as if they were seeking the same God as Christians and Jews. Wasn't Paul inspired?
    Paul certainly was inspired and he would say the same thing now to people who would seek after any other god as of it held the same weight as Jesus Christ. To many people, these idols (including fame, wealth and whatnot) hold sway over lives, but are worthless to save.

    Paul, in Acts 14:15 declares:
    “Friends, why are you doing this? We are merely human beings—just like you! We have come to bring you the Good News that you should turn from these worthless things and turn to the living God, who made heaven and earth, the sea, and everything in them.

  8. #83
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    Hey folks, we see a few things here that concern us.

    The biggest one seems to be that a few posters in this thread aren't actually holding to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being one God. The thread's also wandered off course, and it's gone around in more than a few circles.

    Time for it to take a little breather, I think, at least while we review it. If we can re-open it, we will.

    In the meantime... a gentle reminder from the Site's main rules:

    IV. Specific Rules

    Unorthodox teachings or discussing specific doctrines of ANY of these religions will be moved to the "World Religions" Forum:

    Teachings of ANY of these religions and discussion of specific doctrines may be discussed only in the World Religions forum in the interest of seeking factual representation and refuting any doctrinal differences from mainstream Protestantism:

    1. Seventh Day Adventist (SDA)
    2. Jehovah's Witnesses (JW)
    3. Latter Day Saints (LDS)
    4. ANY non-Christian religion, such as Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Wicca, etc.
    5. Roman Catholicism.
    6. ONENESS (DENIAL OF THE TRINITY/DEITY of Christ)
    7. Universalism of any sort to include Universal Reconciliation
    While we're reviewing this thread, I'd encourage anyone posting in this thread who is concerned about their own views not falling in line with the above to please start a Chat to Moderators thread, just so we can discuss some scripture off the main board, and get it sorted out.

    Thanks!
    -- Your ~sister~ in Christ.... a "Kaffinated Kittykat"!!

    ROMANS 5:8. Forgiven. Freed. Humbled. Amazed. Grateful. Relying on Christ.

    Love is not a place to come and go as we please
    It's a house we enter in, then commit to never leave
    So lock the door behind you, and throw away the key
    We'll work it out together, let it bring us to our knees.....
    Warren Barfield




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