Bullies

[HisLeast]

The problem with telling a child to physically hit someone that is mouthing off though is they can get suspended from school...they are seen as the one in the wrong and told they should have gone to their teacher, principle or bus driver first! And frankly they should...(or the parents in the case of young children of course). I think parents should get involved anyway regardless of how old or young the child is.

If my child is ever bullied, the first thing I'll do is inform the school in writing that its occurring, and that my child is being trained to violently defend his safety. If the school doesn't want liability for personal injury when the situation boils over, I would highly suggest they have the matter taken care of in the next 24 hours.

My child will know how to throw a fight ending punch. My child will understand how to pulverize and dislocate joints. Simply put, my child will be a very dangerous gamble for sub human monsterous demon spawn who are titillated by suffering.

And if the day comes that my child is suspended for refusing to be mentally sodomized, on that day I will treat them to whatever restaurant they like, and provide a full range of entertainment options during their suspension week. Then there will be unmitigated, unscrupulous war on the reputations of both the school principal and the superintendent for the district. These positions should not be filled by impotent people.

[moonglow]

If my child is ever bullied, the first thing I'll do is inform the school in writing that its occurring, and that my child is being trained to violently defend his safety. If the school doesn't want liability for personal injury when the situation boils over, I would highly suggest they have the matter taken care of in the next 24 hours.

My child will know how to throw a fight ending punch. My child will understand how to pulverize and dislocate joints. Simply put, my child will be a very dangerous gamble for sub human monsterous demon spawn who are titillated by suffering.

And if the day comes that my child is suspended for refusing to be mentally sodomized, on that day I will treat them to whatever restaurant they like, and provide a full range of entertainment options during their suspension week. Then there will be unmitigated, unscrupulous war on the reputations of both the school principal and the superintendent for the district. These positions should not be filled by impotent people.

Depending on his age...there is a good chance you will be visiting him in junvie not taking him out to eat...giving a kid a good sock in the nose is one thing...but what you are talking about is going way, way overboard HisLeast. On most issues I agree with you but not on this...though I understand why you feel as strongly as you do about it. I know you were horribly bullied as a child and unable to fight back. I think because of what you endured, the anger, resentment is clouding your vision a bit here. What if you end up with a child so tender hearted he or she will start crying when you try to teach them this stuff? To hurt someone this badly? Scaring the daylights out of them with thoughts of this kind of extreme violence? And if you insist they learn how to "pulverize and dislocate joints" anyway...couldn't you be doing as much harm to them as any bully could ever do?

When I was a kid my dad tried to teach my sister and I some basic fighting/defensive moves..nothing nearly as extreme as what you are talking about and my sister dissolved into tears over the whole thing. It frightened her...she didn't want to physical engage anyone. Now me I had no problems with it...but all he was trying to teach us was how to grab someone trying to hit us by the arm and sticking a leg out...pulling them as they were already moving forward to hit, and tripping them, getting them on the ground. And a few other things I don't really remember. But like I said, my sister couldn't handle it and broke down. I couldn't image if he tried to teach us the stuff you are talking about...that is over the top..it really is. I pray you rethink this.

God bless

[Elijah's Mantle]

how come it is legal for adults to be within the boundaries of keeping the law to exercise their full right to self defense but not school children when it comes to bullies ? seems to me there is some kind of a double standard approach and lets face it folks all one has to do is pick up a copy of students rights and responsibilities hand book to determine they are so opposed to individual freedoms and liberties just the term individualization alone is on the EXTINCT LIST

Is it a extra curricular agenda to convince every one that NO ONE HAS RIGHTS ?

I think we are becoming communist minded when we take away any human beings right to defend them self
especially individuals that are under 21 years of age

[stupes]

Depending on his age...there is a good chance you will be visiting him in junvie not taking him out to eat...giving a kid a good sock in the nose is one thing...but what you are talking about is going way, way overboard HisLeast. On most issues I agree with you but not on this...though I understand why you feel as strongly as you do about it. I know you were horribly bullied as a child and unable to fight back. I think because of what you endured, the anger, resentment is clouding your vision a bit here. What if you end up with a child so tender hearted he or she will start crying when you try to teach them this stuff? To hurt someone this badly? Scaring the daylights out of them with thoughts of this kind of extreme violence? And if you insist they learn how to "pulverize and dislocate joints" anyway...couldn't you be doing as much harm to them as any bully could ever do?

When I was a kid my dad tried to teach my sister and I some basic fighting/defensive moves..nothing nearly as extreme as what you are talking about and my sister dissolved into tears over the whole thing. It frightened her...she didn't want to physical engage anyone. Now me I had no problems with it...but all he was trying to teach us was how to grab someone trying to hit us by the arm and sticking a leg out...pulling them as they were already moving forward to hit, and tripping them, getting them on the ground. And a few other things I don't really remember. But like I said, my sister couldn't handle it and broke down. I couldn't image if he tried to teach us the stuff you are talking about...that is over the top..it really is. I pray you rethink this.

God bless

Yeah I agree - let's save the joint pulverizing for someone that is trying to rape your wife or abduct your kids.

Jesus truly has the power to sanctify our children and comfort them. Not saying kids won't get bullied - but they can be comforted by our Lord in a deep way that pulverizing someone can't do......

[moonglow]

how come it is legal for adults to be within the boundaries of keeping the law to exercise their full right to self defense but not school children when it comes to bullies ? seems to me there is some kind of a double standard approach and lets face it folks all one has to do is pick up a copy of students rights and responsibilities hand book to determine they are so opposed to individual freedoms and liberties just the term individualization alone is on the EXTINCT LIST

Is it a extra curricular agenda to convince every one that NO ONE HAS RIGHTS ?

I think we are becoming communist minded when we take away any human beings right to defend them self
especially individuals that are under 21 years of age

I don't think the schools are saying a cornered student that cannot get away to get help or yell for help can't defend themselves from being physically hurt...

But the thing is MOST of the time they can get away and run to a teacher for help or scream their heads off to get the attention of staff who will stop this.

If a student is truly cornered and being physically hurt and fights back, then in that case I don't think they would get into trouble...unless of course they did something horrible like have a knife and stab them. Weapons of any kind are not allowed in school.

And most of the time, the bullying is verbal...so if the kid being picked on hits them..instead of letting staff know that bullying is happening, then yea they can get into trouble.

There are things a child, teenager can be taught to take down the other student and make them unable to fight back without hurting them too btw that is just as humiliating to the bully as being physically hurt. Children and teens can take self defense classes that would give them the confidence to defend themselves if physically attacked without causing major bodily harm.

It also would give the child or teenage a feeling of self confidences that they could protect themselves and the more confident a child or teen has the less likely they will be picked on in the first place. Bullies tend to pick up on those with a lack of self confident...ones they know are overly sensitive and will react to their verbal attacks. Those that appears slow or weak.

Though there are always exceptions...last night at church our pastor was talking about he was one of the biggest teens in his high school so other boys were always wanting to fight him for some reason. He said he didn't care cause he could take a punch...feel it the next day though. But I thought it was strange as big as he is...way over six foot that smaller boys always wanted to fight him. Though I don't think they went after him like bulling him. Just wanted to fight him for some strange reason.

Also keep in mind bullying doesn't just happen in school...it happens in the neighborhood..a church...pretty much anywhere. Even siblings will bully each other!

God bless

[Firefighter]

I believe in peace through superior fire power. If your kid punches my kid, don't be surprised if your kid gets his arm broke. The object of a fight is to cause as much damage as needed to immediately stop an aggressor... nothing less. nothing more. If you throw a punch and get your arm broke, you wil NOT be throwing another punch anytime soon. Mission Accomplished.

[HisLeast]

I believe in peace through superior fire power. If your kid punches my kid, don't be surprised if your kid gets his arm broke. The object of a fight is to cause as much damage as needed to immediately stop an aggressor... nothing less. nothing more. If you throw a punch and get your arm broke, you wil NOT be throwing another punch anytime soon. Mission Accomplished.

Not only that, but good people don't have the luxury of deciding when violence will occur. Barring the inability to decide when it will start, I will at least give my child every means I can provide to decide when it will stop.

Teaching "just enough force to suppress" is dangerous territory. Ask any cop why. Its why they stand off with pepper spray and stun guns rather than going to fisticuffs. My child won't have that luxury, so I will train him/her for decisive victory. They may not like this training, but they will be thankful for it if they ever need it. They'd enjoy the savagery of bullies much less.

[moonglow]

Wow...you guys! I am shocked and truly saddened by this idea of teaching your children to use excessive force AS IF they were adults and in the miltary or working as police dealing with other adults.

These are CHILDREN we are talking about here. Little kids...

Maybe you guys are thinking further ahead to the high school years but the OP was about his eight year old son. The average weight of eight year old is 40-50's that first cannot physically do these things and second...the 'picking on' starts a young age. I think you both are going to struggle as parents. Toddlers will hit, bite and take toys from each other..it takes years to teach them to share. Preschoolers don't know how to play with each other very well, so will push, shove and hit to get another child's attention...they are inappropriate but not trying to be bullies. They just have really bad social skills.

And again as I said MOST bullying is verbal. Are you really going to teach them to break someone's arm for saying mean things to them?

Teach them the way to solve all their problems is by physically hurting other children? If you teach them this and assume they will know when to use it, you will be sadly mistaken as children are run by their emotions...not rational thought, for the first good ten years of their lives if not longer. They react first and think later when its too late. They are incapable of thinking about long term conquenses of their actions. They will just think 'dad said it was ok' and do it even if all some other child did was look at them funny. You will be in courts, being sued by other parents, your children will be expelled from school so you will have to home school..if the state hasn't removed them that is. Your children will become the bullies...

They will have no friends...lonely birthday parties...many very lonely days sitting at home because no one invites them over because they hurt too many other children. They will have a sad and terrible future. Jesus said those that live by the sword, die by the sword.

I think you both need to read up on some child develop literature and pray about this. Have you asked God if this is ok? Cause I sure don't see it justified in the bible.

[CoffeeCat]

Stepping in here for a sec...

Folks, this thread's getting a little out of hand, and it needs to be pulled back. I'd like to see anyone who responds actually respond to the OP, and their situation.... and kindly add some scripture into it, please. Nowhere in the gospels does Jesus tell us to break someone's arm when they attack us -- and you can bring up the situation in the temple when He drove out the moneychangers, if you'd like, to prove that Jesus had a "temper", but that was a very specific context when they were using His Father's house in a bad way, and it has nothing to do about how we should raise children or for that matter teach them how to treat one another.

Okie dokie?

[Firefighter]

If it is just words, just let it slide and ignore them and they will eventually stop.

If there is a threat of physical violence or intimidation, teach him how to defend himself, even if it means a butt whoopin'. I am not real sure Jesus wants us to be door mats to anyone. When he stands up to them, even if the outcome is less than desired, they will stop.

Maybe you missed this post Moonglow...

The reason someone tries to fight you is to cause you physical harm. The problem is, you do not know how much. After you are stunned and have landed on your butt is NOT the time to find out. What if it is the little 7 year old that attended my church that has already stabbed 4 people??? If it is talk... walk away, PERIOD. If they are an immanent threat and you are forced to fight, DESTROY them, PERIOD.

[Firefighter]

Stepping in here for a sec...

Folks, this thread's getting a little out of hand, and it needs to be pulled back. I'd like to see anyone who responds actually respond to the OP, and their situation.... and kindly add some scripture into it, please. Nowhere in the gospels does Jesus tell us to break someone's arm when they attack us -- and you can bring up the situation in the temple when He drove out the moneychangers, if you'd like, to prove that Jesus had a "temper", but that was a very specific context when they were using His Father's house in a bad way, and it has nothing to do about how we should raise children or for that matter teach them how to treat one another.

Okie dokie?

Jesus told his disciples to sell their coats and buy swords. I can only imagine that He did not expect them to play "Pick Up Sticks" with them. To say, or even suggest, that the Bible does not allow us to defend ourselves is a gross misunderstanding of scripture.

[HisLeast]

Wow...you guys! I am shocked and truly saddened by this idea of teaching your children to use excessive force AS IF they were adults and in the miltary or working as police dealing with other adults.

Its only "excessive" because you find it distasteful. To me, if it causes a bully to cease the physical domination, it is sufficient. Some bullies know how to take a punch... but few humans are immune to excruciating pain.

These are CHILDREN we are talking about here. Little kids...

It isn't my fault if some little booger eater has been allowed to become a monster. My child will NOT be put through years of torment and subjection because others have a distaste for violence.

Maybe you guys are thinking further ahead to the high school years but the OP was about his eight year old son. The average weight of eight year old is 40-50's that first cannot physically do these things and second...the 'picking on' starts a young age. I think you both are going to struggle as parents. Toddlers will hit, bite and take toys from each other..it takes years to teach them to share. Preschoolers don't know how to play with each other very well, so will push, shove and hit to get another child's attention...they are inappropriate but not trying to be bullies. They just have really bad social skills.

And again as I said MOST bullying is verbal. Are you really going to teach them to break someone's arm for saying mean things to them?

I'm not talking about a specific age group, and I'm definitely not talking about petty childhood disagreements. I'm talking about the focused and premeditated commitment to make someone's life miserable with whatever means are necessary. Lets also be clear that I'm not talking about name calling. I'm talking about the kids who want to steal lunch money. Kids who want to dump your lunch box in the garbage just for the satisfaction that you can't eat it. I'm talking about the kids who will hold you down to **** on your face. I'm talking about the kids who will corner you and threaten to beat the daylights out of you just to watch you cry and to listen to the promises you'll make in abject submission. And I'm talking about much much worse.

Teach them the way to solve all their problems is by physically hurting other children? If you teach them this and assume they will know when to use it, you will be sadly mistaken as children are run by their emotions...not rational thought, for the first good ten years of their lives if not longer. They react first and think later when its too late. They are incapable of thinking about long term conquenses of their actions. They will just think 'dad said it was ok' and do it even if all some other child did was look at them funny. You will be in courts, being sued by other parents, your children will be expelled from school so you will have to home school..if the state hasn't removed them that is. Your children will become the bullies...

Please, I'm not stupid. I'm not going to teach a child how to inflict violence without keeping them acutely aware of the consequence of action. When I finally learned how to fight, it scared the daylights out of me... but at least nobody would be holding me down and farting on my face, or kicking me out of the gym naked. Too bad I learned too late.

You also must have missed the fact that by the time my child retaliates I would have already given the school plenty of legal recourse to stop the harassment. Likely, if my child has to defend him/herself I'll have already become a legal nightmare to the school and district in question.

I think you both need to read up on some child develop literature and pray about this. Have you asked God if this is ok? Cause I sure don't see it justified in the bible.

I'm not training my child to kill. I'm training my child to inflict bladder spilling amounts of pain. In my readings of the old testament, I see nothing unlawful with the use of force in defense of one's self.

[HisLeast]

Stepping in here for a sec...

Folks, this thread's getting a little out of hand, and it needs to be pulled back. I'd like to see anyone who responds actually respond to the OP, and their situation.... and kindly add some scripture into it, please. Nowhere in the gospels does Jesus tell us to break someone's arm when they attack us -- and you can bring up the situation in the temple when He drove out the moneychangers, if you'd like, to prove that Jesus had a "temper", but that was a very specific context when they were using His Father's house in a bad way, and it has nothing to do about how we should raise children or for that matter teach them how to treat one another.

Exodus 22:2 - If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed.
- If this is true, then what struck the thief. Ostensibly someone in the house that didn't feel like being robbed or assaulted.

Deuteronomy 22:25-27 "for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the betrothed girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her."
- What should we suppose the rescuer would have done to stop the rape? Ostensibly some kind of encounter ending violence.

Deuteronomy 25: "If two men fight together, and the wife of one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of the one attacking him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; your eyes shall not pity her"
- And what of the two men who were fighting? If all acts of violence are prohibited, what then is their punishment.

As for Jesus in the temple, it was more than just harsh words and chasing. He used a scourge, which is purpose built to rend flesh. Anyone he struck would have scars to remind them for the rest of their lives.

[moonglow]

Maybe you missed this post Moonglow...

The reason someone tries to fight you is to cause you physical harm. The problem is, you do not know how much. After you are stunned and have landed on your butt is NOT the time to find out. What if it is the little 7 year old that attended my church that has already stabbed 4 people??? If it is talk... walk away, PERIOD. If they are an immanent threat and you are forced to fight, DESTROY them, PERIOD.

I think a little seven year old could be physically restrained ...don't you? I restrained my raging son at that age and older and me having a bad back. Even though yes he did hurt me...(before I got him restrained) do you really think the police would understand me 'destroying him' and not put me in jail...?

HisLeast: I'm not training my child to kill. I'm training my child to inflict bladder spilling amounts of pain. In my readings of the old testament, I see nothing unlawful with the use of force in defense of one's self.

Every notice when people want to justify something they use the OT? Are we Christians...followers of Christ...or Jews still following OT laws? All the verses you posted were about adults not children. And re-read the verse of Jesus using the whip in the temple...no one was struck! He hit no one...

I don't think traumatizing a child to learn to be overly violent in order to protect them from being traumatized by bullies makes much sense btw. Trauma is trauma. I think it would be worse coming from his own dad...

At any rate..yes both of you become a legal nightmare to the school FIRST...or the neighborhood...or where ever...as I said its not always in school this happens.

[HisLeast]

I think a little seven year old could be physically restrained ...don't you? I restrained my raging son at that age and older and me having a bad back. Even though yes he did hurt me...(before I got him restrained) do you really think the police would understand me 'destroying him' and not put me in jail...?

You could restrain him because you are an adult of greater stature, strength, and experience. Would a seven year old be able to restrain another seven year old as easily? No. But he COULD issue a wholloping that ultimately both children will walk away from.

Every notice when people want to justify something they use the OT? Are we Christians...followers of Christ...or Jews still following OT laws? All the verses you posted were about adults not children. And re-read the verse of Jesus using the whip in the temple...no one was struck! He hit no one...

Just the same as when people want to show a behavior as unlawful they leave out the law. The Old Testament is full of case law justifying violence in various circumstances. Nothing in the New Testament changes that.

I don't think traumatizing a child to learn to be overly violent in order to protect them from being traumatized by bullies makes much sense btw. Trauma is trauma. I think it would be worse coming from his own dad...

Understanding violence does not traumatize. Violence traumatizes. Good people don't dictate the terms of how and when violence visits them, but they can, with proper training, dictate how it ends. They can decide "I'll be the one who is held down and farted on while my lunch is taken away" or they can decide to end it with the finality that only pain can bring.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find people with lasting consequences to their mental health because their father taught them how to throw a punch. The consequences of years of focused bullying on the other hand are easy to see.

At any rate..yes both of you become a legal nightmare to the school FIRST...or the neighborhood...or where ever...as I said its not always in school this happens.

I'm sure the neighborhood would not find my child a nightmare for standing up to the same bully who's likely terrorizing the rest of the children.