We're going to the Fathers House soon

[jeffweeder]

Maybe sooner than you think
The precious promise
　

JOHN 14
　
"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
4 "And you know the way where I am going."

　
　
JOHN 17

24 "Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.



MATT 25
34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdomprepared for you from the foundation of the world.
　

　
I see from the above scripture, that Jesus has ascended to the place that existed before the foundation of the world , to prepare a place for us there .
He will come again and recieve / gather us, and we shall see that glory he had with Father before the earth ever existed.
　

2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

　
　

This sounds better than the garden of Eden doesnt it?
God created man and then prepared a garden for him, where we walked with God in the cool of the day.
Jesus is the way back into this relationship with God, only this time we will be with God in his own house that existed before the foundations of this world were put in place.
　
It looks something like this
　

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."
5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."
6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.
7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son

　
　
Peter and the early Church look for this to happen when Christ comes again like a thief, according to his promise.
　
　

Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!
13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,
15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,
16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,
18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

　
Even so come Lord Jesus.

[My heart's Desire]

What more can be added? Even so, come Lord Jesus Come.

[jeffweeder]

What more can be added? Even so, come Lord Jesus Come.

Why add to his promise?

A lot of people add a 1000 years from the time he comes, till the time we actual see the new Heaven and earth, and the glory he had with father before the world began...and have our tears wiped away.

I see no such thing mentioned in the scriptures I posted.

What I see is an enormous crowd of people from every nation standing before the Throne, being comforted by the Father immediatly after Great Tribulation.


Rev 7
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.
16 "They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat;
17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."

[Steven3]

Except that's not what the text says. According to John 14 and 2Co5 we are not going to the Father's house. It is coming to us.

[jeffweeder]

Except that's not what the text says. According to John 14 and 2Co5 we are not going to the Father's house. It is coming to us.

For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven,

Is there a difference?
Jesus comes for us, recieves us in the air so we can be with him forever in the kingdom of his Father.
Our change happens at this time so we can inherit that very kingdom that was prepared before the world ever existed.


Job 14
So man lies down and does not rise.
Until the heavens are no longer,
He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.
13 "Oh that You would hide me in Sheol,
That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You,
That You would set a limit for me and remember me!
14 "If a man dies, will he live again?
All the days of my struggle I will wait
Until my change comes.

1cor 15
Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
55 "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?"
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.



22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,
24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.

[Steven3]

Hi J

Is there a difference?
Jesus comes for us, recieves us in the air so we can be with him forever in the kingdom of his Father.

Well, yes there's a difference in direction, since "clothed with our dwelling from heaven" means from , and no one believes that the "air" is the final destination. It's either air->back to heaven, or air->Jerusalem, either way the kingdom is not in the "air".

Also there's possibly in terms of attitude to this world/life a difference. I know this is a caricature, a stereotype, but some non-Christians can very easily get the following impression:

• 1. rapture-to-heaven Christians = selfish, all about their salvation, rats jumping from the sinking ship, leave the rest to perish. Think Al Gore faked that video of a chunk of Antarctic as big as New Jersey falling into the sea. Not bothered about the ozone layer disappearing, anti medicare, etc.

• 2. rapture-to-Jerusalem Christians = more socially responsible, about Christ coming and healing the earth, don't expect their neighbours to be slaughtered by angels or the birds, beavers and chipmunks to be incinerated in a global forest-fire. Not averse to doing things to start healing the environment, society, before Christ gets here.

Those are ridiculous caricatures of course, but that is what is sometimes sounds like to non-churchgoers when they hear those two positions discussed.

"We're going to the Father's house soon" sounds "I'm alright Jack" to some. Sorry, but it does.
S.

[Raybob]

Hi J

Well, yes there's a difference in direction, since "clothed with our dwelling from heaven" means from , and no one believes that the "air" is the final destination. It's either air->back to heaven, or air->Jerusalem, either way the kingdom is not in the "air".

Also there's possibly in terms of attitude to this world/life a difference. I know this is a caricature, a stereotype, but some non-Christians can very easily get the following impression:

• 1. rapture-to-heaven Christians = selfish, all about their salvation, rats jumping from the sinking ship, leave the rest to perish. Think Al Gore faked that video of a chunk of Antarctic as big as New Jersey falling into the sea. Not bothered about the ozone layer disappearing, anti medicare, etc.

• 2. rapture-to-Jerusalem Christians = more socially responsible, about Christ coming and healing the earth, don't expect their neighbours to be slaughtered by angels or the birds, beavers and chipmunks to be incinerated in a global forest-fire. Not averse to doing things to start healing the environment, society, before Christ gets here.

Those are ridiculous caricatures of course, but that is what is sometimes sounds like to non-churchgoers when they hear those two positions discussed.

"We're going to the Father's house soon" sounds "I'm alright Jack" to some. Sorry, but it does.
S.

Steven,
What, exactly, do you tell non-believers about the good news when you witness to them?

It doesn't sound to me like you are saying what Jesus wants you to say:

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
(Mar 16:15-16)

[My heart's Desire]

Except that's not what the text says. According to John 14 and 2Co5 we are not going to the Father's house. It is coming to us.

2 Cor 5 speaks of the body, not an actual house. John 14 refers to a dwelling place.

The body we are given, the house is where we go.

[notuptome]

The church is going to be in the presence of Christ during the tribulation not here on earth. Jesus will reward those who are His at the judgment seat of Christ and each one will stand before Him. The tribulation is Gods judgment on unrighteousness and ungodliness on the earth. Christ will chastise individual believers but no where in scripture do I see a general judgment on the church. The enemy of the church is satan. A house divided against itself cannot stand. God will not subject the church to the judgment of the tribulation.

Can't wait to check out the new digs. Streets of gold are cool but the Lamb of God in the midst is gonna' be the bees knees.

I long to see my Savior first of all. I shall know Him by the print of the nails in His hands. Fanny Crosby caught a great thought about what we should expect. The only thing better than knowing Him is Him knowing me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[My heart's Desire]

Why add to his promise?

A lot of people add a 1000 years from the time he comes, till the time we actual see the new Heaven and earth, and the glory he had with father before the world began...and have our tears wiped away.

I see no such thing mentioned in the scriptures I posted.

."

Oh, I thought you were just rejoicing in the soon coming of the Lord, but....I see there is going to be debate....again...sigh!

[jeffweeder]

Oh, I thought you were just rejoicing in the soon coming of the Lord, but....I see there is going to be debate....again...sigh!

I was , but i made it sound more exciting by suggesting that we are going straight into the Fathers arms.
When i think about the idea of having to stay on this earth for 1000 years when Christ comes, I see that being with Father is a long way off, before I can be with him and have him wipe my tears etc etc.

Thats not the idea I got when I read the sciptures I posted.

I think the Lord is telling us that he has ascended to the Fathers house to make it ready for us, and when he comes ,we will be there.

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,

13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
14 who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

[My heart's Desire]

I was , but i made it sound more exciting by suggesting that we are going straight into the Fathers arms.
When i think about the idea of having to stay on this earth for 1000 years when Christ comes, I see that being with Father is a long way off, before I can be with him and have him wipe my tears etc etc.

Thats not the idea I got when I read the sciptures I posted.

I think the Lord is telling us that he has ascended to the Fathers house to make it ready for us, and when he comes ,we will be there.

Well I think that also. I think the Church is in the New Jerusalem and Israel (saved remnant) and those saved during the trib will be on the earth 1000 yrs.

[Bible2]

Regarding those in Revelation 7:9,14, at that moment they may not be in the Father's house (the city of New Jerusalem: Revelation 21:2-3), but in the temple building in heaven (Revelation 7:15, cf. Revelation 11:19, 14:17, 15:5). There is no temple building in the city of New Jerusalem itself (Revelation 21:22).

Also, those in Revelation 7:9,14 may not be in heaven after the tribulation, but after only the first stage of the tribulation, the six seal events of the chapter just prior (Revelation 6). The seven trumpets of the tribulation could subsequently come out of the seventh seal (Revelation 8:1-2).

Also, those in Revelation 7:9,14, may not be in heaven by being raptured there at the second coming of Jesus, but by dying in the six seal events of the chapter just prior (Revelation 6). For when Christians die their souls go into heaven to be with Jesus (Philippians 1:21,23, 2 Corinthians 5:8, Revelation 6:9-11).

Even though those in Revelation 7:9,14 could die and go into heaven during only the first stage of the tribulation (Revelation 6), others in the church will survive the first stage (e.g. Revelation 7:3) and go through the subsequent trumpets (e.g. Revelation 9:4), including the reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4).

[jeffweeder]

Hello Bible 2

Rev 7 sees a crowd of people that no-one can count from all nations, that come out of the great tribulation. They are before the throne and God wipes all tears away and tabernacles among men...(all things new)
I believe this crowd is the same one spoken of in Rev 21, their names being found in the book of life, where God is seen to wipe all tears and tabernacle with us.

1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."


5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."
6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.
7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son

That suggests to me that we come out of the tribulation period to find ourselves before the Throne, in the lap of God , having our tears wiped away.

(I dont see us coming out of a millenial reign, before he wipes those tears away.)

[Bible2]

Rev 7 sees a crowd of people that no-one can count from all nations, that come out of the great tribulation. They are before the throne and God wipes all tears away and tabernacles among men...(all things new)

Actually, unlike Revelation 21:1-5, the passage of Revelation 7:15-17 doesn't refer to God dwelling with men on the new earth at that time, nor does Revelation 7:15-17 refer to "all things new". Revelation 7:15-17 can occur in heaven after only the first stage of the coming tribulation (Revelation 6), while Revelation 21:1-5 will occur on the new earth and not until after the entire tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-18) and after the subsequent second coming (Revelation 19:7-20:3) and after the subsequent millennium (Revelation 20:4-6) and after the subsequent Gog/Magog event (Revelation 20:7-10) and after the subsequent great white throne judgment is all over (Revelation 20:11-15).

That suggests to me that we come out of the tribulation period to find ourselves before the Throne, in the lap of God , having our tears wiped away.

Revelation 7:9-17 could refer to those who will come out of the tribulation and enter into heaven by dying during only the first stage of the tribulation: the six seal events of the chapter just prior (Revelation 6). The seven trumpets of the tribulation could then come out of the seventh seal (Revelation 8:1-2). Some in the church will survive the first six seals (e.g. Revelation 7:3) and so will still be alive on the earth during the subsequent trumpets (e.g. Revelation 9:4), including the reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 12:6-17, 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4). Just as is the case currently, whenever those in the church will die during any stage of the coming tribulation, their souls will go into heaven to be with Jesus (Philippians 1:21,23, 2 Corinthians 5:8, Revelation 6:9-11).

God can wipe the tears of the saved away whenever they die and enter into heaven to be with Jesus. For in his presence is fullness of joy (Psalms 16:11).

(I dont see us coming out of a millenial reign, before he wipes those tears away.)

The millennium will already be over (Revelation 20:7), as will the subsequent Gog/Magog event (Revelation 20:8-10) and the subsequent great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), before God creates the new earth and wipes all tears away from all of the saved on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-4). The saved on the new earth will include those who got saved during the millennium (Isaiah 66:19-21). So after the millennium and subsequent events are over, those who got saved during the millennium will get their tears wiped away on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-4), just as those saved before them who had died during the tribulation had had their tears wiped away earlier, in heaven (Revelation 7:14-17).