When are we born of the Spirit. First birth, Second birth, Both?

***ross3421*** · Oct 13th 2009, 10:56 AM

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Take a closer look.

Mark

***calidog*** · Oct 13th 2009, 11:57 PM

first birth is by water, the second is by Spirit

***Steven3*** · Oct 14th 2009, 03:19 AM

the first (in Adam) is of flesh - or in Jewish terminology "of blood"

John 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

the second (in Christ) is of water-and-spirit. Compare Titus 3:5.

***crossnote*** · Oct 14th 2009, 03:36 AM

What is that quip?

Born once...die twice.
Born twice...die once.

I think I'll go with the 2nd.

***ross3421*** · Oct 14th 2009, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by calidog

first birth is by water, the second is by Spirit

OK, so are you saying then we are not born with a spirit?

***JohnDB*** · Oct 14th 2009, 01:48 PM

Born of Water and Spirit?

Both are together and not separate.

Being born of "water" refers to the process known today as "sanctification"...and is present in every believer.

Which is an ongoing proccess of changing their minds about some of the activities that they are regularly involved with.

Most Christians have changed their minds about a lot of things that they do...usually immediately upon giving their life to Christ...and some changes take time.

***My heart's Desire*** · Oct 14th 2009, 05:42 PM

Obviously a water birth is a normal birth from the womb. In context, Nic asks can one go back to the womb and be reborn? The translators have Spirit in capital. If correct, Spirit means born of the Holy Spirit. Leaving out spirit is not saying the body has been born without animate life (spirit). It is capitalizing on the importantance of being reborn by the work of the Holy Spirit.

***My heart's Desire*** · Oct 14th 2009, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by ross3421

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Take a closer look.

Mark

Not sure what you are asking. Oh wait, in John 3:6 one Spirit is capitalized and the other is not. Is that what you are seeing. Does that mean that someone not born of the Holy Spirit doesn't have a spirit? They are flesh without a spirit?

surely not? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

I've always believed man is body, soul, spirit, but what does this verse say? Those not born again only have body and soul?
double

**David Taylor** · Oct 14th 2009, 05:51 PM

Yep, that's it exactly.

We are all born of water, from the emneionic fluid of our mother's womb.

Only some of us however, are later born-again; born of the Holy Spirit.

When we become true Christians and believe, repent, and as II Corinthians 5:17 explains, are changed into a new Creature in Christ.

That's the born of water, and born of Spirit part.

All human beings are born of water; and
all human beings have a immaterial spirit within them....

But only God's faithful redeemed are born of the Holy Spirit from above.when they turn to follow Him.

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. "

"ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."

***calidog*** · Oct 14th 2009, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by ross3421

OK, so are you saying then we are not born with a spirit?

man's spirit died because of Adam and Eve, we are born spiritually dead

***theBelovedDisciple*** · Oct 14th 2009, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by ross3421

OK, so are you saying then we are not born with a spirit?

All humans born have a spirit... When a person is born of the Spirit.. that is something that is done by God Himself... the Operation and Work of the Holy Ghost..... the 'spirit' of the person is Quickened.. or made alive again... thru the Work and Operation of the Holy Ghost...

prior to the New Birth.. Born of the Spirit...

men women and children .. their spirits are dead in trepsassses and sins..

In the New Testament it is recorded....

there was a man who wanted to follow Jesus, but told Jesus...

first let me go back and bury my father..

Jesus's response to him..

let the 'dead' bury the dead... you come and Follow Me...

the dead burying the dead? How can that be?

He is referring to those who are 'spiritually dead'.. not born Again... burying those who have physically died..(dead)

all humans have spirits...

if your 'spirit' has been 'quickened' made alive by the Operation and Work of the Holy Ghost.. then you are Born Again .. Born of the Spirit..

born of Water.. and Born of the Spirit...

human birth....(water)

then being Born Again.. Quickened by the Holy Ghost... this a 'spiritual rebirth'... from a spirit that is dead in trespasses and sins... to a 'spirit' that has been washed and set free by the Blood of Christ... free and able to comprehend and understand the Things of God..

First birth is carnal... Second birth is Heavenly.. and Its Initiated In Heaven by God Himself.. as He Draws and He Reveals Himself to the sinner, and He Converts.. then Empowring the person and the 'quickened' spirit to walk in His Ways and Communicate with Him... this all possible by what Jesus the Christ accomplished on that Bloody TRee.. then coming out of the Tomb... Alive again..

the Second Birth.. comes from the Second Adam.. Jesus... who is a 'quickening Spirit'...

***My heart's Desire*** · Oct 14th 2009, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by theBelovedDisciple

All humans born have a spirit... When a person is born of the Spirit.. that is something that is done by God Himself... the Operation and Work of the Holy Ghost..... the 'spirit' of the person is Quickened.. or made alive again... thru the Work and Operation of the Holy Ghost...

prior to the New Birth.. Born of the Spirit...

men women and children .. their spirits are dead in trepsassses and sins..

the Second Birth.. comes from the Second Adam.. Jesus... who is a 'quickening Spirit'...

Meaning we all have one (spirit) but it is dead to God? unless it is made alive by the Holy Spirit. right? Has to be in the sight of God b/c if the spirit is dead then it is like not having one. It has no life?

***My heart's Desire*** · Oct 14th 2009, 06:37 PM

These discussions are hard for me being biologically inept.

We do know though that you can slice open the brain and see no personality. You can do the same with the heart but see no personality. But the mind does can produce feeling and the body can also. You cut yourself, you hurt. etc
Mind boggling. I'm sure scholars somewhere have looked up scriptures references of soul, spirit and in context have discovered the meanings.

***John146*** · Oct 14th 2009, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by My heart's Desire

Not sure what you are asking. Oh wait, in John 3:6 one Spirit is capitalized and the other is not. Is that what you are seeing. Does that mean that someone not born of the Holy Spirit doesn't have a spirit? They are flesh without a spirit?

surely not? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

I've always believed man is body, soul, spirit, but what does this verse say? Those not born again only have body and soul?
double

Everyone has a spirit. Those who are not born of the Spirit are spiritually dead in their trespasses and sins. Those who are born of the Spirit have been quickened, or made spiritually alive, and are no longer dead in their trespasses and sins.

Eph 2
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

**Butch5** · Oct 14th 2009, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by ross3421

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Take a closer look.

Mark

When you are baptized.