Second Death

[Beckrl]

Which one would you determine the second death apply too?

• Spiritual death
• Physical death
• Both

Why?

[divaD]

Which one would you determine the second death apply too?

• Spiritual death
• Physical death

Why?

Aren't unbelievers already spiritually dead, even when alive? How can one be spiritually dead twice?

[Beckrl]

Aren't unbelievers already spiritually dead, even when alive? How can one be spiritually dead twice?

Asking your own questions? ha ha

What then would this scripture imply?

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Would you say that those that go to hell that their soul is killed?

[jeffweeder]

Which one would you determine the second death apply too?

• Spiritual death
• Physical death

Why?

Both.

God said that the day you eat of the fruit that I command ye not to eat -you will surely die.
He died spiritually that day, bringing certain physical death.

We would all be particepants of the seond death if it wasnt for Jesus Christ and the first ressurection.
If you are born again, the seond death has no power over thee.
You will live, you have the guarantee of the Gift of the Holy Spirit, in the knowledge that Christ has overcome and is the giver of Eternal Life.
For all who believe.
Blessed be him forever

[Steven3]

Which one would you determine the second death apply too?

• Spiritual death
• Physical death

Why?

As with all Revelation questions, we close the book and go to simpler books to find the answer first

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna (the Valley of Hinnom).

Matthew 10:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.... 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. .... 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. .... 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

John 5:28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of condemnation.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets, 15 having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust.

Acts 10:42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, at his appearing and his kingdom:

1 Peter 4:5 but they (mockers) will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

So the above shows that Christ will come back, raise the dead, and judge living and dead. The sheep will enter the kingdom, the goats will enter the fire of the valley of Hinnom.

Now on to Revelation

This is for once a question why Revelation actually makes life easy by including the phrase in the letters to the 7 churches, so the "second death" must be the opposite of the eternal life at the judgment promised "to him who overcomes":

Rev 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’ = he who overcomes will be as the sheep, he who does not, will be as the goats.



Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. = those raised and entering the kingdom will reign (1000 years doesn't have to be literal)



Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. = symbolic, how can 'Hades-hell' literally be thrown into Gehenna-Hell? But it means neither concept is needed. See 1Co 15:24-25



Rev 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

[Beckrl]

Both.

God said that the day you eat of the fruit that I command ye not to eat -you will surely die.
He died spiritually that day, bringing certain physical death.

We would all be particepants of the seond death if it wasnt for Jesus Christ and the first ressurection.
If you are born again, the seond death has no power over thee.
You will live, you have the guarantee of the Gift of the Holy Spirit, in the knowledge that Christ has overcome and is the giver of Eternal Life.
For all who believe.
Blessed be him forever

Yes, Jeff
I should have made that amendment to my question.
The second dead is both spiritual and physcial. For they are separated from God which is deaf for eternity.

[T W Taylor]

Hello again Beckrl,
Spirits don’t die.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. TWT

[TrustingFollower]

I would have to conclude from reading in Revelation 20 that they will not die spiritually and also say I don't know about the body.

Revelation 20

10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20

15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

We see that the beast and the false prophets are in the lake of fire and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then a little further down in the same chapter we see anyone who's name was not found written in the book of life also thrown into the lake of fire. So if the beast and the false prophets, who will be people of the same likeness as we are only not born of the Holy Spirit, will be there forever and ever for torment thus so will the others who are thrown in there be tormented forever and ever.

[Beckrl]

Hello again Beckrl,
Spirits don’t die.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. TWT

Being spiritual dead. The sinner is dead alreadly because they aren't born again. Being separated from God.

Although the sinner will live for eternity because they are immortal. The second death then is death by a spiritual separation and now a physical separation (death/ ie second death).

The righteous will live with Christ and God in their midst.
The righeous lived with Christ spiritual and now we will physically be with him. (ie. no more physical separation)

[Beckrl]

I would have to conclude from reading in Revelation 20 that they will not die spiritually and also say I don't know about the body.

Revelation 20

10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20

15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

We see that the beast and the false prophets are in the lake of fire and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then a little further down in the same chapter we see anyone who's name was not found written in the book of life also thrown into the lake of fire. So if the beast and the false prophets, who will be people of the same likeness as we are only not born of the Holy Spirit, will be there forever and ever for torment thus so will the others who are thrown in there be tormented forever and ever.

So what would be your conclusion of the second death?

Death by separation!!!

[Steven3]

I would have to conclude from reading in Revelation 20 that they will not die spiritually and also say I don't know about the body.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

We see that the beast and the false prophets are in the lake of fire and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then a little further down in the same chapter we see anyone who's name was not found written in the book of life also thrown into the lake of fire. So if the beast and the false prophets, who will be people of the same likeness as we are only not born of the Holy Spirit, will be there forever and ever for torment thus so will the others who are thrown in there be tormented forever and ever.

It's always possible that not everything in Revelation is literal.

But it'd be nice if it was. I'd certainly enjoy eternity more if my neighbours and work colleagues were treated by God as the beast and false prophets and will be tormented day and night forever and ever.writhing in eternal torment.

[moonglow]

Here's what Adam Clarke has to say about this:

Verse 14. And death and hell were cast into the lake
Death himself is now abolished, and the place for separate spirits no longer needful. All dead bodies and separated souls being rejoined, and no more separation of bodies and souls by death to take place, consequently the existence of these things is no farther necessary.

This is the second death.
The first death consisted in the separation of the soul from the body for a season; the second death in the separation of body and soul from God for ever. The first death is that from which there may be a resurrection; the second death is that from which there can be no recovery. By the first the body is destroyed during time; by the second, body and soul are destroyed through eternity.

*********************
In regards to being spiritual dead without God...the way I understand it is, we are born spiritually dead to start with. We aren't alive in this way, ..then made 'alive' in Christ. I see the spirit as a seperate thing from the soul..we all have souls or we couldn't be physically alive. Upon physical death the soul is separated from the body. In the second death there is no chance of being made alive in Christ...death is permanent. I also think God is involved in the life of a nonbeliever (while they are physically alive) and works through them, whether they realize it or not...they are not unseen or forgotten by Him at all. He is very much aware of them and as the bible says, wants all to come to repentance...doesn't want anyone to perish.

But once the final judgment comes...well..its final just like it says.

Its kind of like having different degrees of death spiritually I think...very similar to someone that 'dies' from a heart attack then is revived...they weren't dead, dead...beyond all hope of recovery in this state of death. But if the heart cannot be revived they become dead..dead...beyond all hope.

God bless

[TrustingFollower]

It's always possible that not everything in Revelation is literal.

I see no reason to not believe this is literal. No where in scripture will you find a case where God completely destroyed a spirit/soul however you want to term it. Annihilationism is an unbiblical doctrine and thus a Hersey to the church.

But it'd be nice if it was. I'd certainly enjoy eternity more if my neighbours and work colleagues were treated by God as the beast and false prophets and will be tormented day and night forever and ever.writhing in eternal torment.

I would say this should be an even bigger motivation for all to spread the good news of the gospel to our neighbors and co workers. Our God is a just God, justly rewarding those whom choose His son and justly punishing those whom reject His son.

[Beckrl]

Here's what Adam Clarke has to say about this:

Verse 14. And death and hell were cast into the lake
Death himself is now abolished, and the place for separate spirits no longer needful. All dead bodies and separated souls being rejoined, and no more separation of bodies and souls by death to take place, consequently the existence of these things is no farther necessary.

This is the second death.
The first death consisted in the separation of the soul from the body for a season; the second death in the separation of body and soul from God for ever. The first death is that from which there may be a resurrection; the second death is that from which there can be no recovery. By the first the body is destroyed during time; by the second, body and soul are destroyed through eternity.

*********************
In regards to being spiritual dead without God...the way I understand it is, we are born spiritually dead to start with. We aren't alive in this way, ..then made 'alive' in Christ. I see the spirit as a seperate thing from the soul..we all have souls or we couldn't be physically alive. Upon physical death the soul is separated from the body. In the second death there is no chance of being made alive in Christ...death is permanent. I also think God is involved in the life of a nonbeliever (while they are physically alive) and works through them, whether they realize it or not...they are not unseen or forgotten by Him at all. He is very much aware of them and as the bible says, wants all to come to repentance...doesn't want anyone to perish.

But once the final judgment comes...well..its final just like it says.

Its kind of like having different degrees of death spiritually I think...very similar to someone that 'dies' from a heart attack then is revived...they weren't dead, dead...beyond all hope of recovery in this state of death. But if the heart cannot be revived they become dead..dead...beyond all hope.

God bless

moonglow
I think your quote from Adam Clarke is spot on.
It's sad to know that for those of the second death that there will be no more hope for them.

[moonglow]

moonglow
I think your quote from Adam Clarke is spot on.
It's sad to know that for those of the second death that there will be no more hope for them.

I think he is right too on this...and yes it is sad once its done, its done...