Hardened heart

[GreenEyes]

Hey folks.. Been a while since I posted here, though I've been quietly reading along with some topics.

Anyway, to get to the point: I've seen the concept of a 'hardened heart' mentioned semi-frequently in some of the topics here. Particularly in those dealing with people who - like me - seem to have trouble 'seeing' God despite opening themselves up to the possibility (albeit tentatively). In fact, if I recall correctly, it has been suggested that I might possess such an adamantine organ, as well!

In the past, I dismissed this quite quickly, as I thought it meant being cold and unemotional, which I am quite decidedly not. But I started reading a bit more (finding, amongst other things, this explanation) and now understand that the meaning of the phrase is a bit more complex.

In fact, one curious thing in that article is that it suggests the culprit is often letting one's feelings guide you rather than reason and logic, which is admittedly the opposite of what I expected.

Pride is also mentioned as a major factor. Of course, I wouldn't say I consider myself to be prideful - but then, most people probably wouldn't.

Anyway.. How would one determine if they have, in fact, hardened their heart? And how would one overcome such a obstacle?

[HisLeast]

I think those with hardened hearts wouldn't care, and would be insulted by the suggestion. They've made their decision, are comfortable with it, and furthermore stare down their noses at those who do believe.

[Jeffinator]

Depends how hardened their heart is. Sometimes God uses the little bit of light we let in to spark an interest in us and learn more and more til we are saved. Others only pretend to let God in hoping it will make them a better person or for God to answer all their prayers. Its a long process though, I have been a Christian a long time and I still am knocking a few hard spots off my heart with certain areas. Its hard to let God into all the areas of our life because we designate God for certain things then say other things are "private" and make exceptions for them. For example, I will admit that I had sex before marriage, but I considered that part of my life the exception and rationalized that it was okay. But it eventually caught up to me and I paid the price for it, big time. I believe everyones in the process of un-hardening their hearts, but some require more work than others.

As far as how to go about it, sometimes we dont realize our hearts are hardened until we hit rock bottom and realize theres a problem or a void in our life. But sometimes its too late. But if you do realize this dont blow it off. Let God speak to you in this area and read on what He has to say about it, then live up to it. It can be really hard especially if your caught in an addiction, routine, or just dont want to break old habits. But I guess thats where real love for you Maker comes in by obeying Him and loving Him through your obedience. Through this process I have opened by heart and eyes to Christ and continue to know Him more and more. And I will tell you this much, I am a lot better because of it and have received peace from it that I otherwise would have never attained without Him.

[watchinginawe]

Anyway.. How would one determine if they have, in fact, hardened their heart? And how would one overcome such a obstacle?

Hello GreenEyes. It is good to see you around.

Take heart, by that article you linked most of the Christians on this forum, including me, have a "heardened heart". As is common with articles of those with the beliefs of the author, the target audience is... believers.

I will simply offer that, probably inadvertantly, the author of the article is right in their portrayal of what constitutes a hardened heart. We can discuss the article if you want but I don't think it will be helpful beyond the following observation: a hardened heart for the context in which you are asking is a stubborn wrong heart against a particular belief or issue.

So we might all remember a time when we have hardened our heart in an argument or action in which we were wrong about. The hardening happens when we devise defenses for our wrong beliefs or actions. This usually escalates to a point where the consequences of our hardened heart become even greater than the original matter. We all know of entire lives that have been lived where the issues of a hardened heart were never resolved or only resolved at the very end.

Where Jesus Christ is concerned, a hardened heart is an unbelieving heart (this can be about several matters). One might recognize that they are hardening their heart in recognizing an inordinate amount of effort spent in defending their unbelief.

Overcoming stubborness in unbelief starts with first identifying what it is you do believe and seeing if there is good reason to form some doubt of that belief. Said simply, we have to begin to suspect that we are wrong and thus are hardening our heart. Take a read of this post where I attempted to show how this might work.

God Bless!

ps: I like your user title. Maybe not so adamantine. ( Thinking of some real life uses of the new word I learned: Instead of "You aren't so tough" I'll use "You aren't so adamantine".)

[GreenEyes]

Thank you for the different perspectives, everyone - the meaning of this phrase really was more flexible and nuanced than I thought, but I'm beginning to get the gist of it, now.

Take heart, by that article you linked most of the Christians on this forum, including me, have a "heardened heart". As is common with articles of those with the beliefs of the author, the target audience is... believers.

Yes, I figured as much - I'd only seen it used when pertaining to non-believers, though, so it confused me a little initially.

One might recognize that they are hardening their heart in recognizing an inordinate amount of effort spent in defending their unbelief.

I see. So basically, in that context, it involves realizing - or at least suspecting - that what you believe is wrong.. but instead of acquiescing, you instead fight harder and more bitterly?

Yeah, everyone can fall victim to that kind of obstinateness in an argument, I suppose.

Overcoming stubborness in unbelief starts with first identifying what it is you do believe and seeing if there is good reason to form some doubt of that belief. Said simply, we have to begin to suspect that we are wrong and thus are hardening our heart. Take a read of this post where I attempted to show how this might work.

Thank you. I'd been popping into that thread occasionally, already, but your post there is very to-the-point. Myself, I've consciously tried not to refer to myself as a 'seeker,' because I agree that would imply already believing there truly is something to find. Which, in my case, would be a bit presumptuous.

As you already noticed from my usertitle, though, I recognize that what I believe about God is sort of an intuitive (hopefully educated) guess, rather than an absolute certainty. To me, that is the essence of agnosticism. So there is a measure of doubt there; pretty much ingrained.

[Moxie]

Pride is also mentioned as a major factor. Of course, I wouldn't say I consider myself to be prideful - but then, most people probably wouldn't.

Hi Greeneyes,

I like to touch on pride a bit. A friend of mine mentioned to me recently that pride is simply anytime we exalt ourselves, our feelings or our thoughts above God, His will or His Word. Therefore, even in this questioning stage that every unbeliever has we are prideful because thoughts of whether or not salvation is needed clearly does not line up with God's will or Word. We all fall short of the glory of God, (Romans 3:23) we are all sinners in one manner or another and are in need of a Savior, Jesus Christ. God wants you to freely accept the gift of His Son Jesus Christ. If you will allow Him to do so, He will guide your heart to His Son. When He does, I would urge you to accept Him with your heart, trust Him and believe.

[GreenEyes]

A friend of mine mentioned to me recently that pride is simply anytime we exalt ourselves, our feelings or our thoughts above God, His will or His Word. Therefore, even in this questioning stage that every unbeliever has we are prideful because thoughts of whether or not salvation is needed clearly does not line up with God's will or Word.

Hello, Moxie!

I do see what you mean. Contrasted with the notion of man being hopelessly sinful in nature, holding yourself - or humanity in general - in any higher esteem would seem like hubris. And it would certainly seem to subvert the neccessity of salvation through Christ. Small wonder that it is the first hurdle to tackle on the "Roman Road".. or even the "Way of the Master."

There's a bit of a rift between us there, though.. It is hard for me to accept so seemingly negative a view of human nature, in the same way that it is hard for me to comprehend believers who view life without God as empty or meaningless. Is it foolish pride that makes me shy away from such views? I don't know. It doesn't feel like it, to be honest.

However, I readily admit that, by the Biblical standard, I am without a doubt a sinner. My unbelief alone runs afoul of a Commandment - the very first, no less.

[Moxie]

GreenEyes,

Let me ask two questions, Who is Jesus to you? and if you were to die today where would you spend eternity? I've got to run now, but I'll be on later this evening and check back with you.

Moxie

[Dani H]

The hardening of the heart in Biblical context has to do with one's regard of God's authority and submission to Him.

It doesn't necessarily mean that a person doesn't care. It just means that they don't care about what God has to say.

One can have their hearts hardened towards God and be quite emotionally accessible by people and care about them. It's possible.

You're in a good spot though. Looks to me that the Holy Spirit has been working on opening your eyes to your true state before the Lord. Can't repent without realizing these things.

[GreenEyes]

Who is Jesus to you?

To me, he is a historical figure. A man whose life, teachings and ministry gave rise to Christianity.

If you were to die today where would you spend eternity?

Heh.. I've been given cause to contemplate this question a bit more, lately. But, as far as I know, I would simply cease to be.

[calidog]

Anyway.. How would one determine if they have, in fact, hardened their heart? And how would one overcome such a obstacle?

the Holy Spirit, according to the bible, is alongside every unbeliever convicting them of sin, righteousness, and judgement. It is when a person continually rejects what the Spirit is telling the unbeliever that the heart begins to harden. Fortunately even the elderly have come in to the faith.

[tango]

Hey folks.. Been a while since I posted here, though I've been quietly reading along with some topics.

Anyway, to get to the point: I've seen the concept of a 'hardened heart' mentioned semi-frequently in some of the topics here. Particularly in those dealing with people who - like me - seem to have trouble 'seeing' God despite opening themselves up to the possibility (albeit tentatively). In fact, if I recall correctly, it has been suggested that I might possess such an adamantine organ, as well!

In the past, I dismissed this quite quickly, as I thought it meant being cold and unemotional, which I am quite decidedly not. But I started reading a bit more (finding, amongst other things, this explanation) and now understand that the meaning of the phrase is a bit more complex.

In fact, one curious thing in that article is that it suggests the culprit is often letting one's feelings guide you rather than reason and logic, which is admittedly the opposite of what I expected.

Pride is also mentioned as a major factor. Of course, I wouldn't say I consider myself to be prideful - but then, most people probably wouldn't.

Anyway.. How would one determine if they have, in fact, hardened their heart? And how would one overcome such a obstacle?

Hi GreenEyes, good to see you back!

Pride is a tricky thing to be trying to spot. I wouldn't have considered myself prideful but when God came knocking in my life the thought of admitting to myself that I'd spent my entire adult life chasing the wrong target wasn't an easy pill to swallow. It really was like realising I'd spent so many years chasing something that was ultimately worthless, and had previously walked away from something priceless. Ultimately I did, but not before fighting it quite hard.

If you had truly hardened your heart you most likely wouldn't be here posting the kinds of questions you are. I would expect someone with a hardened heart to either not ask questions at all, or ask loaded questions intended to ridicule or otherwise put down people of faith.

It's not really a case of being cold and unemotional, it's more about being unwilling to consider the divine and how it relates to us. Someone can be emotional to the point of not functioning normally but have a heart hardened to God. I guess you could think of it in terms of the way we relate to other people - sometimes we see people who are utterly unmoved by human suffering in general but care extremely deeply for specific individuals. Or we might find someone who cares for people in general but has a total contempt for certain individuals or groups and would literally do nothing to help them regardless of the situation they were in.

When someone's heart is hardened it's not so much something they necessarily overcome themselves, it might just mean God has to knock a lot louder before they respond. God had to knock pretty loudly before I showed any interest.

[Moxie]

Greeneyes,

What has caused your to contemplate where you would spend eternity?

[GreenEyes]

Hi GreenEyes, good to see you back!

Pride is a tricky thing to be trying to spot. I wouldn't have considered myself prideful but when God came knocking in my life the thought of admitting to myself that I'd spent my entire adult life chasing the wrong target wasn't an easy pill to swallow. It really was like realising I'd spent so many years chasing something that was ultimately worthless, and had previously walked away from something priceless. Ultimately I did, but not before fighting it quite hard.

Hey Tango. Thanks. *blush*

I imagine it would be quite tricky.. It's hard to spot one's own mistakes, and perhaps harder still to admit to being wrong. I take some comfort, though, in the fact that I don't feel like I've been wasting my life, even if I should prove to be mistaken.

What has caused your to contemplate where you would spend eternity?

Well, I've thought about it before, of course. *smiles* But I've been reminded of my own mortality by, of all things, a small lump - the nature of which is yet to be determined.

[Gypsy]

19 I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. 20 Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

Hey GreenEyes,

When I was a kid, I was a good reader. So much in fact that usually, while the other kids were having reading class, me and usually one or two other kids would sit in a corner of the classroom, reading independently. To motivate us, when we finished a book our teacher would let us pick a treat out of a box full of posters and candy and stuff. I remember one time, I was near finishing a book and I knew that there was a poster in that box with all of the star constellations on it. Oh, how I wanted that poster! Well, I finished at the same time as another student and we both went to the box at the same time. I remember him saying to me 'well, I don't care. Which one do you want'? I was embarrassed of wanting the star poster so much that I said 'Oh, I don't care either' - he picked the poster first. I was crushed, but can remember being so embarrassed of my disappointment that I instead of admitting that I handled the situation wrong - i.e. misrepresented myself and what was important to me, I pretended that the poster was never that important to me to begin with. I hardened my heart a little. It was just fear plain and simple.

That kind of thinking grows up with you. In high school - 'Oh, I wasn't really interested in that girl anyway' or 'Oh, I didn't really want to make the basketball team anyway' until as an adult before I was saved, I would actually find myself saying stuff to myself like 'Oh, I wasn't really happy in that marriage anyway' or 'Oh, my kids are probably much better off with me not so much in their life's anyway'. Or, 'Oh, it's just a lump in my breast. No big deal, I can deal with it'. It's just fear plain and simple.

I think that maybe that's how this stuff works - us hardening our hearts I mean. That is that we forget what's really important to us and because of that we are constantly finding disappointment in life. We think that we know best how to deal with the world and when we're faced with the fact that we don't, it's kinda scary to us, so we deal with that by convincing ourselves that this isn't important or that's not important - 'Oh, I don't care anyway'. If we never admit that something is important to us than we never have to bare the shame of being disappointed by our own means. It's just fear plain and simple.

I doubt any heart has ever been as hardened as Saul. Understand that Saul didn't just not like Christianity. He didn't just disagree with it. He wanted it gone! His name, in early new testament times was synonymous with persecution and the complete and total eradication of Jesus' followers. Surly no one would have presumed to witness to Saul. Try to share the good news of Jesus' sacrifice for him. I don't know if anyone ever even prayed for Saul's eyes to be opened. I'm sure everyone thought that he was too far gone for that. But, with God all things are possible:

Acts 9

Saul's Conversion

1Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest 2and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" 5"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.
"I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. 6"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."
7The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.
10In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!"
"Yes, Lord," he answered.
11The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight."
13"Lord," Ananias answered, "I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. 14And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name."
15But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. 16I will show him how much he must suffer for my name."
17Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

Now I'm no preacher and I don't pretend to know what everything about everything in the bible means, but to me it's significant that in order to be saved it was necessary for Saul to loose his sight - as if to say that in order for us to see the truth, we have to stop seeing that which is not true. Sounds simple, but easier said than done I think, because so many of us are so used to distorting that what we see with our eyes, because we need to process it into something that we can control and predict, that I might actually look out my window as I'm writing and convince myself that this great angel oak standing behind my garden ended up there without any thought to it's placement or design. That it is simply the end result of some great cosmic accident. That it exists as anything but a very obvious example of the grandeur of His creation is nuts to me, but I might convince myself of that so that it seems more controllable. I can explain it. I can predict it. I can control it. There's no chance of me being helpless. It's just fear plain and simple.

Jesus says that he wants us to come to him like children"

The Little Children and Jesus

13Then little children were brought to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked those who brought them. 14Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." 15When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there.

with soft humble hearts and open wondering eyes, not corrupted by a lifetime of distortion. I love to watch my 3 month old in his swing, staring past the big fancy, musical, brightly colored mobile hanging on his swing at a stone in the wall. To him, they're equally as wondrous. It's because he's seeing them both for the first time, with new eyes, uncorrupted by pride and shame and fear. He doesn't pretend to have to know how to understand it. He doesn't need to control it or even to know what it is. It's just wonder. Openness. Trust unfettered by doubt. He doesn't even know what doubt is.

To come to Christ we need to see with those kind of eyes. We need to shed our pride and shame and doubt and fear and see Him as if it's the first thing we've ever seen. We need new eyes. Fresh, unspoiled by our cynicism and fear and doubt. In short we must be born again:

3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

I've already said that I'm no preacher and I don't pretend to know the way to soften your heart, but I know He does. Close your eyes and quiet yourself, GreenEyes. You'll find Him. He's walking right next to you and He loves you as much as me or anyone here. He does. You can't see it, because you've been looking with eyes distorted by life. He'll soften your heart. He'll clear your eyes. He'll take the fear away - plain and simple.

God bless and I will keep you in my prayers.