Hanging out all the time?

[livingwaters]

Stupes, I just want to say that the OP came here and described the situation and asked for our opinion. As born-again Christians, we have more compassion and mercy than some, if not most; however, the Bible also has something to say about what's going on in this young man's mind and life....does the scripture about being and lazy and being a sluggard come to your mind??? If not, you might want to reread it...

We, as parents are to discipline the child, not spare the rod....the point here is he is not a child and needs to know that God has something to say about being lazy and also about disrespecting parents....it's ok to voice your opinion, but some of us have been here with our own children and no, every situation is not the same....but GOD's Word is the same and it never changes...I'm quite sure the OP has and continues to pray about this situation...but, let us also include her and her family in our prayers...that God's Will be done and HIS Word be enforced!

This young adult, it seems, has been given more than ample time to straighten up...now it's time to pay the piper......you might want to reread the OP's posts...they seem to be very to the point, as well as, showing much concern for the young man! Tough love is sometimes what will open their eyes!

God bless!

[Moxie]

We can speculate all day long as to what is going on in this gentleman's mind, however actions speak much louder than words. His behaviors do reflect his attitude. Sometimes it takes more than just people helping in order for someone to figure it out. At this point in his life he is able bodied enough and intellectually fervent enough to figure things out on his own.

If he is not willing to live by some simple rules then he is free to live by his own, on his own. It's not harsh, it's life. People that young do make it. I moved out of my parents home at 18. It was hard and many days I ate beans, rice and popcorn. But, what I learned about myself and life was invaluable.

As Christians, our duty to one another is to lift each other up; bear each other burdens. Speaking to one another in grace and truth is essential both on this board and in real life. We are called to love one another. In this, we will glorify the Lord.

[Firefighter]

He has been asked to follow some rules. He refuses to follow them. He either needs to follow the rules, or pay his own way so he can follow his own. When I came home from the Army after a serious injury, I decided that I did not want to follow Dad's rules, so I got a job (in less than a week after my return while still on crutches) and moved out. It really is that simple.

[sedux]

Oh boy! You guys are way ahead of me! I am bracing myself as I read this as I know my time will come one day when I will be facing similar issues with my baby. I think everyone here gave great advice, and that includes stupes advice as well. A combination of the Tough Love Discipline along with compassion and PRAYER seem like a winning combo to me. This must be a very tough situation for you, and I'm sorry I don't have any good advice, but I will pray for you and your son.

[stupes]

Stupes, I just want to say that the OP came here and described the situation and asked for our opinion. As born-again Christians, we have more compassion and mercy than some, if not most; however, the Bible also has something to say about what's going on in this young man's mind and life....does the scripture about being and lazy and being a sluggard come to your mind??? If not, you might want to reread it...

I'm sorry I just don't see the details in the OP as saying this kid is a lazy sluggard. He entered the military and had to leave due to an unforeseen medical condition. This doesn't seem like a kid who is choosing to be lazy. Then he can't get a decent job, he only works part time. Well, we are in the highest unemployment rate since the great depression (maybe even higher) - more than 10% of able bodied people are out of work in some areas of the country. The fact that he can't get a decent job in this environment is not indicative of being a lazy sluggard. He doesn't want the debt of college, I don't blame him. I was lucky enough to have my employers pay for my education. My brother is 30 years old, a chemical engineer, and still owes 75K. I see a kid who has just had his work plan for the next 5 years taken away, and he has historically limited options. So he is stuck, doesn't know what to do with himself, and doesn't want to twiddle his thumbs in his bedroom every night. He'd rather play video games with his pals than sit in his room alone.

We, as parents are to discipline the child, not spare the rod....the point here is he is not a child and needs to know that God has something to say about being lazy and also about disrespecting parents....it's ok to voice your opinion, but some of us have been here with our own children and no, every situation is not the same....but GOD's Word is the same and it never changes...I'm quite sure the OP has and continues to pray about this situation...but, let us also include her and her family in our prayers...that God's Will be done and HIS Word be enforced!

I agree - that we as Christians should do everything in full assurance of faith. And every situation is different.

This young adult, it seems, has been given more than ample time to straighten up...now it's time to pay the piper......you might want to reread the OP's posts...they seem to be very to the point, as well as, showing much concern for the young man! Tough love is sometimes what will open their eyes!

God bless!

I am sorry I have stirred up so much trouble here. The OP asked for advice - mine can be ignored if it is deemed as off base.

If it were me. I would tell the kid what behavior is not tolerable. Ask that he respects this and if he can't comply then we will help you move out and find another place to live because that will be best for everyone. I wouldn't just lock him out one day - the kid was booted out of the military for something he couldn't control. Now his parents are just going to kick him out on the street in the worst economy in everyones lifetime. I would only do that if it was in full assurance of faith. I have been in a very similar this situation as this kid. So maybe my experience is worth something here.

[stupes]

He has been asked to follow some rules. He refuses to follow them. He either needs to follow the rules, or pay his own way so he can follow his own. When I came home from the Army after a serious injury, I decided that I did not want to follow Dad's rules, so I got a job (in less than a week after my return while still on crutches) and moved out. It really is that simple.

The only thing that isn't simple is the fact about getting a job that will pay for any living arrangement right now. And the OP says that she has asked that he be home by about 10PM. I don't think it is clear that he has to be home by then or he is out. I think the kid should at least be told that if you aren't home by 10PM during the weekdays - then you just can't live here. That isn't apparent in the OP.

[Firefighter]

It shouldn't have to be. Her house, her rules, period.

The only thing that isn't simple is the fact about getting a job that will pay for any living arrangement right now.

Then I guess he had better show some respect to the one that DOES pay for his living arrangements, huh?

[bc3n1]

Wow. This brings back memories of my three children during their teens and early twenties. I was raising them by myself, so had to do the tough love decision on one to preserve the household. Incidently, the rebellious one did say it was the best thing that could have happened to them. All are Christians, serving the Lord. A lot of prayer and faith in our Lord to do what His Word says brought us through those times.

Stupes, in reading your posts, I thought, gosh, that would be just what is needed to pray for the young man. I commend your advocacy, also, but my impression is that this has been going on for a while and her wishes are known to the young man. His mother's anguish over him is heart wrenching.

[Twin2]

I really don't feel like any of you have stirred up any trouble here. I did ask for opinions, because honestly I am torn. I really haven't known how to respond either. Until I had kids myself, I always said, "My kids will never..." Yeah, right. They have. They do. They will.

I realize some things I have done have enabled my son to take advantage of me. I thought it was coming to an end a year ago, when he gave his life back to the Lord. Then he wouldn't give up his friends and he was back out with them. Slowly I watched him go back into the world, but still things were the best they'd been since he was a young teen. For a while he wasn't drinking anymore, and he was actually trying to stay in at night. He made the decision to go military, and it took them a year from the time he signed up to get him into basic training. I imagine that was because he was going with the guard and not full time. Between times being hard, his lack of skill, and his committment to the military, he couldn't find a job. He had applications in everywhere.
I thought my problems were over when he went off to basic training. Then he was sent home. Now the situation is in my face again.

Sometimes I feel like I am being too harsh, that my expectations are too high. He's not the same person I am and his standards are different. Let's face it, young people live different than most middle aged people. I have always been a bit more serious than even my peers. But he is living in my house and there is no respect. He really doesn't want to be a part of our lives, he just needs a place to stay. When I oppose his hanging out late most nights, he gets angry because I have said I don't know what he's up to. I can't imagine hanging out at night like that can be good. I know in the past he has drank. As a teen, he experimented with drugs. The drugs don't seem to be an issue, except he doesn't come home. I've never seen him in a condition, especially in the last year that he seemed messed up on anything. His girlfriend is away at college, and he doesn't seem to have interests in other girls. Because of the little time my son is around, I don't know him. Then I'm further frustrated because he doesn't want to commit to serving the Lord right now. What is he doing that he has to put off serving the Lord? Then the little bit of time I do see him, I'm usually angry with him about something. I just haven't found a peace about what to do yet. He'll be home a week tomorrow, and we've already had problems with each other starting early this week. I can't keep living like this, but he has nowhere to go. I know too many young people living from friend to friend, and a couple who were on the streets, because mom and dad tried tough love and their kids couldn't work things out. I've also known a few who have allowed their young adults to stay with them, and before they know it they have that 30-40 year old bum living in their house, treating them like they owe them a living.

I know there is no clear cut answer to this issue and it was wrong to throw it out there for debate. I know this problem isn't too big for God and I really need to allow him to help us with this. He's helped before and I saw such a miraculous change in my son then. I know it can happen again, for good this time.

[Desperaux]

You have been given some great advice in this thread, Twin2!

So many young people at age twenty-ish seem to suffer a kind of Peter Pan complex--they just don't want to grow up. I don't blame them! This world is frightening in many aspects! I sure wouldn't want to be a young'un in this generation!

I have three adult daughters, and the baby of them did put me through the wringer with her staying out a lot and eventually she married her fiance, but at the expense of losing a respectful relationship with me and her dad...for a season.

My nephew behaved exactly as your son, Twin2, and my sister and her husband, fine believers they are, my brother-in-law a pastor, did not stand up to their son and he is now 29 years old, unsaved, living with a woman and they have a child together all outside of marriage, not a good job, but loads of ambition, no money for schooling he desperately desires, etc, etc, etc!

Tough love is the answer. Children, no matter how old, are looking for limits and are deep down relieved when they are handed them! It shows that they are cared about and cared for.

My suggestion is to create a contract with him that he can sign and abide by, concerning chores expected, curfew, and any other participation in family activities...very grown up stuff.

[Dani H]

To bring it into balance ... because even though some of the advice you have been given may seem opposing, it's really not.

20 is a difficult age. No longer a child, not a teenager anymore, being an adult, yet still having teenage habits.

I have a 19-year-old and a 20-year-old and I see it in both of them. Granted, they're both girls but the concept is the same. The 19-year-old spent the entire last year receiving many butt-kickings from her parental units (i.e. my husband and myself) to help her get her head out of Teenage Land and into Adult World. She's scraped her knees a few times but she's starting to see it. She still lives with us but a) works almost full time and b) is in college full time. She also pays us for cell phone use and pays her own car insurance and does set chores. The 20-year-old lives with her fiance and carries a full college load plus a full-time job and they have their own bills they pay, so she's pretty firmly rooted in Adult World already.

Does your son help around the house? Does he either do chores or pay rent? He has to understand that nothing in life is free, and you're doing him no favors if you're not making him contribute something, whether he works full time or part time. At his age, being male, I'd make him responsible for yard work, mowing, etc. and the vehicles (washing and waxing the cars etc.). That's over and above keeping his room in good order, of course, and doing his own laundry (no mommy picking up after him!). That's his rent payment to you guys. Because he is no longer in high school, and adults pay their own way through life. Ultimately, when he has to carry the entirety of his load for himself and pay his own way in every way, that's when he will grow up. He's still hanging on to the umbilical cord. Time to ruffle the feathers a little bit, methinks.

This is where you have to step outside of "mom" thinking and ask yourself "if he was living like that with total strangers, what would happen? If he had to pay rent and live on his own, is he ready?" And if the answers to both don't give you the warm fuzzies, it's time to rattle his cage. He's 20 years old. He is an adult. He can "hang" with his friends when his chores are done and his responsibilities are taken care of. Friendships are important at this age still, and there is nothing you can do about it. Ask any teenager or young adult where they want to be and they'll tell you "anywhere but here." It's normal.

Having said that, a 10 o'clock curfew for a 20-year-old is a bit unrealistic IMO. My 19-year-old has a midnight/1 a.m. curfew during the week, and can pretty much stay the night at a friend's house on the weekend. She knows what's required to keep her grades up. She also, no matter what time she goes to bed, is responsible enough to get up the next day and go to work. She also picks her friends pretty well and they all have jobs and are in college.

Having said ALL THAT, you and your husband need to figure out the rules. It's your house, your rules. You set them. You decide the conditions. When you live with your son one day and he pays all the bills, then he'll be allowed to set them. Until then, his only choices are to a) abide by your rules or b) find elsewhere to live. This doesn't have as much to do with his relationship with God as it does have to do with him taking advantage of your kindness. God can handle His relationship with your son. That's His concern, not yours. Your concern is to prepare your offspring for the adult world that he's going to be living in for the rest of his life. Unfortunately, that requires us to crack their little skulls every so often to help them wake up, and grow up. Your son is always going to be your baby. But he is now a man. Time to act like one, and put childish things behind him.

Also, has he checked into joining the military?

[ilovemetal]

hey, I didn't read the other replies, but here's my take as a 27 year old dude.

Recently my mom talked to me about my childhood. Now that I'm old we can talk about 'what she did wrong', apparantly. I still tell her she did fine, but there's always something she can seem to come up with that could have been better. One thing I always had (not sure why) was that I never talked with my parents. Probly because as a young child they never talk to me, so it just happened. We never communicated.

I also used to do nothing with my life, and smoke pot, and drink a bit, and play video games, but there came a day when God punched me spiritually and I just had to get my stuff together. If you raised you son proper, I think he's just where I was where he's not sure what to do with life, and is selfish, and wants to have fun. It's obviously hard as a parent, but I figure, God is in control, no? And He will put your son along the path He has, even if it means a awkward next couple years.

I have confidence your son will get it together one day soon, and, if he thinks 'security' is found in worldly things, he has a bit to learn too.

That's all I got.
~Kev

[Twin2]

As always, I appreciate all the replies, no matter what side you took. I do feel better about my son. I really think I am overly concerned as once again, I have allowed Satan to put fear in my heart. I know better. We serve a mighty God and for that I should not be afraid. My son is going to be fine. I am holding to scripture -

Proverbs 22:6
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

I wasn't a perfect parent, but I tried. My son was raised in church and I believe my husband and I set an example before him, that he knew our intentions were to serve the Lord.

[tango]

As always, I appreciate all the replies, no matter what side you took. I do feel better about my son. I really think I am overly concerned as once again, I have allowed Satan to put fear in my heart. I know better. We serve a mighty God and for that I should not be afraid. My son is going to be fine. I am holding to scripture -

Proverbs 22:6
"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

I wasn't a perfect parent, but I tried. My son was raised in church and I believe my husband and I set an example before him, that he knew our intentions were to serve the Lord.

Seems to me the recurring theme is that for as long as your son is living with you he needs to make some form of contribution. If he's working he can pay some cash towards housekeeping - you can figure how much based on what he makes and what it costs to keep him. If he's not working he can contribute by helping out around the house.

To do neither shouldn't be an option. When I was his age I wasn't expected to help around the house, so when I did move out and get my own place there were a lot of things that came as quite a shock. Of course I knew there weren't elves around the house that did all the chores while we slept but it was still quite a shock to realise just how much effort it was to keep even a small place in a half-way decent condition.

What he does with his own time is his business, and it's not really your business who he spends time with other than to offer advice. But at the same time he can't expect you to clean up after him while he doesn't do anything to support himself.

[Penny]

When he comes home tonight, have all his stuff packed in boxes and sitting on the front porch.

Tell him that the hotel is closed, but that a room can be rented for $69 a night, cash in advance. Meals are $11 each, cash in advance. Shower is $5, cash in advance.

Time to grow up or starve.

RabbiKnife, Are you just really sarcastic? I'm trying to figure it out.