Salvation by grace through faith NOT works?

[arcadia]

When the people came to John the Baptist and were Baptized he told them to do works. Don't steal, extort, collect extra taxes etc. Jesus said that a tree is known by it's fruit(works?). Some say just receive Jesus and you are in. Apparently the "sinners prayer" was not used in conversion until about 50 years ago. The Greek word for saved is apparently sozo which means healed or saved. My Greek /Hebrew bible definition for this word is: (1) Salvation from material or temporal deliverence from danger or suffering sickness etc..(2) Spiritual and eternal salvation.

Perhaps believe in your heart and confess with your tongue (Romans 10:9)and you will be "sozo" means that you will be healed? Lots of people believe that they are Christians. Yet I see their continuous sin (I work in a jail). Where is repentance? Where is the fruit of the Spirit? Where is the love? Where is the works? Not the works to obtain salvation for it is a free gift but the fruit. Love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, Kindness, Gentleness, faithfulness and self control. Works/Deeds = fruit? Where is it?? Do you LOVE the LORD? Do you Love your neighbor??

[Moxie]

Santification. The process God has for us to make us more like His Son, Jesus. We have to be willing to be in God's Word and in prayer to Him, submitting to Him in order to reap the benefits of renewal. There are people who have genuinely professed Christ to be their Savior but they don't know how to take hold of the promises of God because no one has taught them. Discipleship is important and it is a command--we are to teach them (Mt. 28:20).

I volunteer at a jail. I can tell you that the ladies I work with are professing Christians and like us, each has their own stuff to work out with God. For many, they have had childhood abuses, substance abuse and domestic violence. They have so many layers of "stuff" to get through in their sanctification process. They cry themselves to sleep, they journal to God and they read their word. Their prayer requests are specific as they cry out to a Holy God as their source of help. They praise Him and they say, "We are Blessed and Highly Favored". But they didn't come to jail that way, someone had to teach them, guide them and love on them.

Sometimes the 'fruit' is just taking hold of the process of renewal and allowing God to heal us; allowing ourselves to surrender to Him; learning of Him and leaning on Him. It is in that surrendering process that we will be truly used by God.

[Bible2]

Salvation by grace through faith NOT works?

That's right: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

But once we do get saved by our faith in Jesus, we do need to do good works: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10).

If we just sit back after we get saved and refuse to do any good works of faith, we could lose our salvation in the end: "His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant ... cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 25:26,30).

For our faith in Jesus is kept alive and efficacious unto salvation by our good works of faith: "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (James 2:14-26).

In the end, we will obtain eternal salvation by both our faith and our active obedience to God the Father and Jesus: "Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life" (Romans 2:6-7). "He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him" (Hebrews 5:9). "Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him" (2 Corinthians 5:9).

But it's not like after God the Father grants us his miraculous gift of faith in Jesus (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65) that he then just sits back and says "Get to work!" No, he and Jesus and his Spirit are all living inside us, encouraging us, helping us, empowering us, making it possible for us to be diligent in doing good works of faith unto our ultimate salvation: "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:12-13). "Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily" (Colossians 1:29).

If we abide in Jesus, we will without fail perform good works of faith: "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.*I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing" (John 15:4-5).

But if we stop abiding in Jesus, we will end up not doing any good works of faith, and so will end up losing our salvation: "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned" (John 15:6). "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate" (Titus 1:16).

[Equipped_4_Love]

Fruit is not the same as works. Paul was talking about works of righteousness here....more like works of self-righteousness. Works of the law type of thing.

Not all works are works of the law. There are also works of the Spirit, which is Jesus Christ working through you. You do not help the homeless because you are earning brownie points with God...You help the homeless because Jesus has placed it on your heart, because of His love working through you.

You do good works because when Christ fills your heart, your heart becomes inclined to do them. I think one of the greatest works of this type of this is prayer...although I'm not sure that's a work!!!

[notuptome]

When the people came to John the Baptist and were Baptized he told them to do works. Don't steal, extort, collect extra taxes etc. Jesus said that a tree is known by it's fruit(works?). Some say just receive Jesus and you are in. Apparently the "sinners prayer" was not used in conversion until about 50 years ago. The Greek word for saved is apparently sozo which means healed or saved. My Greek /Hebrew bible definition for this word is: (1) Salvation from material or temporal deliverence from danger or suffering sickness etc..(2) Spiritual and eternal salvation.

Perhaps believe in your heart and confess with your tongue (Romans 10:9)and you will be "sozo" means that you will be healed? Lots of people believe that they are Christians. Yet I see their continuous sin (I work in a jail). Where is repentance? Where is the fruit of the Spirit? Where is the love? Where is the works? Not the works to obtain salvation for it is a free gift but the fruit. Love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, Kindness, Gentleness, faithfulness and self control. Works/Deeds = fruit? Where is it?? Do you LOVE the LORD? Do you Love your neighbor??

Johns ministry was one of repentance. His message was repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. OT saints were deemed righteous by their faith that God would send the Messiah. Works the keeping of the law was an evidence of their belief. The OT says blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth not sin.

The NT message is that Messiah, Jesus Christ has come the redemption has been made. It is finished was His cry. We receive salvation by grace by trusting in the blood of Christ as the atonement for our sin. Past sin, present sin and future sin are all covered by the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. Christ will present us faultless before the Father. What could we hope to add to what Christ has done? Can we improve on His perfection?

You could say the theif on the cross prayed the first sinners prayer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[arcadia]

Johns ministry was one of repentance. His message was repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. OT saints were deemed righteous by their faith that God would send the Messiah. Works the keeping of the law was an evidence of their belief. The OT says blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth not sin.

The NT message is that Messiah, Jesus Christ has come the redemption has been made. It is finished was His cry. We receive salvation by grace by trusting in the blood of Christ as the atonement for our sin. Past sin, present sin and future sin are all covered by the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. Christ will present us faultless before the Father. What could we hope to add to what Christ has done? Can we improve on His perfection?

You could say the theif on the cross prayed the first sinners prayer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So true. Jesus did it all. I agree 100%. But there is still a place for repentance. Salvation is a work of God. It's supernatural. A NEW birth! A new creature! What about the parable of the soils? What does it mean? Can we fall away? The book of Revelation tells of a GREAT FALLING AWAY. Comments? Scriptures?
Thanks everyone.

PS What about being born of the water (repentance)and the Spirit?

[crossnote]

For both Jew and Gentile saving repentance is not a work of man but that which is granted by God.

Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
(Act 5:31)

When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
(Act 11:18)

[firstpeterone]

Jesus died and saved us from our sins. But before Jesus died, He also told others to take up their cross everyday and follow Him. Even Jesus had someone help Him carry His cross. Did Jesus leave us a model to help others carry their cross when lead by God, when they are unable do it alone because of wounds from this world. What a war we are in, though not all at the same place. When we can we should help each other.

[th1bill]

... As is my custom I'm going to make this personal. When I was saved it was because God had mercy on me and forgave me my sins because I wanted, with all my heart, to turn from them and to Him. My being a teacher, a Christian musician, a minister in a prison ministry and on are the works that the world can see and are the measure of my devotion and love of God and my fellow man.
... I used to love fresh vegtables and fruit. As a result I tilled the ground, every year, and I planted, watered and fed my crops. As a result of my works I harvested tomatoes, potatoes, water melons and many other tasty delights. The product was the fruit of my labor. An Apple will yield a seed that when planted, watered, fed and cared for will produce more Apples. The fruit of a Christian is another Christian! Our labor is the demonstration of our love and our faithfulness, New Christians, as a result of our labors, our works, is the fruit we produce.

[arcadia]

... As is my custom I'm going to make this personal. When I was saved it was because God had mercy on me and forgave me my sins because I wanted, with all my heart, to turn from them and to Him. My being a teacher, a Christian musician, a minister in a prison ministry and on are the works that the world can see and are the measure of my devotion and love of God and my fellow man.
... I used to love fresh vegtables and fruit. As a result I tilled the ground, every year, and I planted, watered and fed my crops. As a result of my works I harvested tomatoes, potatoes, water melons and many other tasty delights. The product was the fruit of my labor. An Apple will yield a seed that when planted, watered, fed and cared for will produce more Apples. The fruit of a Christian is another Christian! Our labor is the demonstration of our love and our faithfulness, New Christians, as a result of our labors, our works, is the fruit we produce.

good!! thanks for sharing!

[theBelovedDisciple]

It is by GRACE that ye are Saved.. thru Faith.. it is a Gift From God..... this According to His Will and Foreknowledge.. not according to your religious works.. or you somehow being good enough.. to warrant God to swing His Head around and 'take notice' of you.. no..

The 'works' you walk in as a Genuine Believer.. these God had 'preordained'..even before the day He Saved you.. and when You are Born AGain..

He will direct you into them...

'works' are the evidence of your Faith...

He will direct you into them... so that you can walk in them daily... empowering you to do so.. as He leads you by His Spirit and His Word...

your works will be 'tested'... and if they are 'grounded' in His Will (no other foudnation laid but Christ Jesus) they will survive the test of 'fire'... and you will recieve a reward.... and they will continue to 'abide'..... if they don't then they will burn up or evaporate... but you yourself will still be Saved.. and from there He will direct you into His Will and His Righteous Works.. He had pre ordained .. that you should walk in them...

no ye not that ye are the Temple of the Living God.. and the Spirit of the Living God lives in you....... if any man 'defile' the temple.. him/her God will destroy..

He is Faithful.. Faithful is He that calleth you.. and will do it..

He will direct you into His Works for you... and His Will for your life..

if there is something else.. He will make that 'known' to you..

He doesnt leave you in the Dark as to the Will of God for your life... and the Righteous Works He has 'preordained' that ye should walk in them...

[ThyWordIsTruth]

When the people came to John the Baptist and were Baptized he told them to do works. Don't steal, extort, collect extra taxes etc. Jesus said that a tree is known by it's fruit(works?). Some say just receive Jesus and you are in. Apparently the "sinners prayer" was not used in conversion until about 50 years ago. The Greek word for saved is apparently sozo which means healed or saved. My Greek /Hebrew bible definition for this word is: (1) Salvation from material or temporal deliverence from danger or suffering sickness etc..(2) Spiritual and eternal salvation.

Perhaps believe in your heart and confess with your tongue (Romans 10:9)and you will be "sozo" means that you will be healed? Lots of people believe that they are Christians. Yet I see their continuous sin (I work in a jail). Where is repentance? Where is the fruit of the Spirit? Where is the love? Where is the works? Not the works to obtain salvation for it is a free gift but the fruit. Love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, Kindness, Gentleness, faithfulness and self control. Works/Deeds = fruit? Where is it?? Do you LOVE the LORD? Do you Love your neighbor??

The problem is that there is genuine saving faith, and false faith. This is the false faith that James talks about. Genuine saving faith will produce works without a doubt, whereas a false profession of faith will not. False faith does not lead to repentance nor good works.

However, even if it does produce works and an outward morality, remember that even that does not give full evidence of true saving faith, because the Pharisees, rich young ruler and most probably Nicodemus were also full of good works but were not saved. I have come across many legalistic "Christian" friends who were clearly unsaved yet evidenced good works and a form of outward morality, so do not be decieved. I was also one of them and I thought myself saved all this while then but I was not, I only realized this when I was truly born again.

On believing in your heart and confessing with your mouth.

First, what constitutes real belief? Is it intellectual ascension to who Christ is and what he did? I think not. If you truly believed that He is the Son of God, you'd do everything he commanded and taught. You'll also believe his promises in eternity and wouldn't take this life and the things in it too seriously. You live your life according to what you really believe.

You'd put the advancement of God's kingdom first and foremost as the priority in your life, as his kingdom matters more than anything else. You'll take his warnings about sin and hell very seriously. Most of all you'd have a constant and great love and loyalty towards God and Christ, and esteem them very highly, and you'll also love people sacrificially.

So someone can say they believe, but the Bible is clear on the degree of belief that is necessary to evidence saving faith. One must believe enough to lay down his life and take up his cross and follow Christ. in

Secondly, confessing with your mouth in Paul's time means nothing like what it means now. It does not mean to raise your hand and come up to the front and saying with your mouth that Jesus is Lord. Confessing with your mouth in the time of Paul means you're signing your own death warrant. It had very real, and mostly very unpleasant, consequences. There were consequences if you were a Jew, and consequences if you were a Pagan, and none of them were pleasant or neutral.

When the Romans came and asked you to pay homage to Caesar as Lord and you say Christ is Lord, its off with your head and goodbye to your family (including your wife and kids who may depend on you to survive). That is what it meant by confessing Jesus as Lord. You're willing to give your life for His namesake and His cause.

The truth is sad, but the truth is this. There are very few really born again people even among those who call themselves Christians. In a good church which preaches the true word of God and the true Gospel, perhaps the majority will be born again. In others, even the pastors may be lost people and worse, blind false teachers leading the blind followers into eternal destruction. No different in the time of Jesus, no different now. Christ himself declared that those who will find it are few.

Hope this answers your question.

[ThyWordIsTruth]

This verse might prove helpful. Many of the authorities believed in Jesus, but their belief did not lead to true salvation. The reason for their unwillingness to confess their faith is given in verse 43.

Joh 12:42 Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue;
Joh 12:43 for they loved the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God.

[crossnote]

Joh 12:43 for they loved the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God.

Just an interesting side note here. Many think that the greek word agapao/agape means 'God's love'. Now note in verse 43 the Pharisees loved (word here is agapao/agape) the glory that comes from man. So this 'agape' is not always used as God's unmerited love.
The better description of this word 'agape' is sacrificial love. That is, the pharisees would sacrificially give of themselves in order to get glory from man.
Here is another verse containing agapao/agape in a sense other than 'God's love'
Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.
(Luk 11:43)

Yes agape is the way God loves us...sacrificially.

[Butch5]

The problem is that there is genuine saving faith, and false faith. This is the false faith that James talks about. Genuine saving faith will produce works without a doubt, whereas a false profession of faith will not. False faith does not lead to repentance nor good works.

However, even if it does produce works and an outward morality, remember that even that does not give full evidence of true saving faith, because the Pharisees, rich young ruler and most probably Nicodemus were also full of good works but were not saved. I have come across many legalistic "Christian" friends who were clearly unsaved yet evidenced good works and a form of outward morality, so do not be decieved. I was also one of them and I thought myself saved all this while then but I was not, I only realized this when I was truly born again.

On believing in your heart and confessing with your mouth.

First, what constitutes real belief? Is it intellectual ascension to who Christ is and what he did? I think not. If you truly believed that He is the Son of God, you'd do everything he commanded and taught. You'll also believe his promises in eternity and wouldn't take this life and the things in it too seriously. You live your life according to what you really believe.

You'd put the advancement of God's kingdom first and foremost as the priority in your life, as his kingdom matters more than anything else. You'll take his warnings about sin and hell very seriously. Most of all you'd have a constant and great love and loyalty towards God and Christ, and esteem them very highly, and you'll also love people sacrificially.

So someone can say they believe, but the Bible is clear on the degree of belief that is necessary to evidence saving faith. One must believe enough to lay down his life and take up his cross and follow Christ. in

Secondly, confessing with your mouth in Paul's time means nothing like what it means now. It does not mean to raise your hand and come up to the front and saying with your mouth that Jesus is Lord. Confessing with your mouth in the time of Paul means you're signing your own death warrant. It had very real, and mostly very unpleasant, consequences. There were consequences if you were a Jew, and consequences if you were a Pagan, and none of them were pleasant or neutral.

When the Romans came and asked you to pay homage to Caesar as Lord and you say Christ is Lord, its off with your head and goodbye to your family (including your wife and kids who may depend on you to survive). That is what it meant by confessing Jesus as Lord. You're willing to give your life for His namesake and His cause.

The truth is sad, but the truth is this. There are very few really born again people even among those who call themselves Christians. In a good church which preaches the true word of God and the true Gospel, perhaps the majority will be born again. In others, even the pastors may be lost people and worse, blind false teachers leading the blind followers into eternal destruction. No different in the time of Jesus, no different now. Christ himself declared that those who will find it are few.

Hope this answers your question.

Well said my friend!