For it is written...

[TryTheSpirits]

If someone states that something is written in the bible and it's not, what does that mean?

[tango]

I'd hazard a guess that either they are mistaken, or they are lying.

If it's not there word-for-word as they have said it could be they are using a different translation. If it's not there at all, either they got it wrong or they are trying to mislead you.

It's worth remembering a lot of things people say aren't quite correct in terms of text and meaning. To give a classic example a lot of people think the Bible says "money is the root of all evil" where it actually says "the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil"

[TryTheSpirits]

I made a mistake by saying in the bible when I should have been more specific, sorry. I meant in the old testament.

Paul wrote, "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."

I have yet to see this written anywhere in the Hebrew scriptures.

Thank you.

[jayne]

What about these passages?

Psalm 14:1-3

"(1)The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.


(2)The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

(3)They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one."

Psalm 53:3

"(3) Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."

[texastig]

Psa 14:3
They are all gone aside, they are [all] together become filthy: [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one.

Psa 53:3
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one.

Thanks,
TT

[Athanasius]

I made a mistake by saying in the bible when I should have been more specific, sorry. I meant in the old testament.

Paul wrote, "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."

I have yet to see this written anywhere in the Hebrew scriptures.

Thank you.

Romans 3:10 is in reference to the Psalms. If you looked at Romans 3:10 in most Bible's, there would be reference points back to Psalms.

[TryTheSpirits]

Please look at the subject in all of those references. Ps. 14 for instance the subject is people that do not believe there is a God, not all people. In all of those references it is talking about evil people against God.

In fact, in Ps. 14:5 does mention the righteous people. God is in the generation of the righteous. There are many righteous people mentioned in the old and new testaments. Using the word "all" is an absolute. No where does it state that "all" are unrighteous. It is quite the opposite.

Here are examples of righteous people in the bible:

-Gen 7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous [men] have desired to see [those things] which ye see, and have not seen [them]; and to hear [those things] which ye hear, and have not heard [them].

Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

[watchinginawe]

If someone states that something is written in the bible and it's not, what does that mean?
...
I made a mistake by saying in the bible when I should have been more specific, sorry. I meant in the old testament.

Paul wrote, "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."

I have yet to see this written anywhere in the Hebrew scriptures.

Hello TryTheSpirits, welcome to Bibleforums.

Do you disagree with Paul's conclusion regarding both Jew and Gentile?

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

If I were to summarize Paul's thought that he makes in the opening of Romans, I would say that he suggests that being a Jew and of the circumcision and perfect in the works of the law does not make one self righteous before God. There were several who strongly disagreed with Paul and many sought to kill him as well. So it isn't new that even today there is strong diagreement regarding his writings.

Paul said this regarding those who disgareed with him and also of works performed for righteousness:

Galatians 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

Paul used his persecution as evidence that he did not preach circumcision or works of the law for righteousness. He suggests that doing so would take away that which the cross was intended for. He also suggests that his persecution would go away if he did. Paul chose persecution and the Truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

God Bless!

[Athanasius]

Please look at the subject in all of those references. Ps. 14 for instance the subject is people that do not believe there is a God, not all people. In all of those references it is talking about evil people against God.

In fact, in Ps. 14:5 does mention the righteous people. God is in the generation of the righteous. There are many righteous people mentioned in the old and new testaments. Using the word "all" is an absolute. No where does it state that "all" are unrighteous. It is quite the opposite.

Here are examples of righteous people in the bible:

-Gen 7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous [men] have desired to see [those things] which ye see, and have not seen [them]; and to hear [those things] which ye hear, and have not heard [them].

Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

The subject of Romans 3:10 is the same as Psalm 14 / 53. In Romans 3, however, what we're reading is a discussion on righteousness / unrighteousness as it relates to the Law (no one is made righteous through the law, 3:20) and as it relates through faith in Jesus Christ (we are made righteous through faith in Jesus, 3:21-26).

We read Romans 3:9, "What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin." Which leads into the verse under discussion, v.10, however, if we move forward and read v.11-12, "there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." We then get a better idea of who is the subject of discussion, those who have not sought God, do not know God, etc. This is substantiated with v.21-22, "But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe."

[IMINXTC]

And while all the above is true, and Paul is almost universally regarded to be referencing the Psalms here, while the verbatem quote cannot be found in the canon of the Old Testament, Paul affirms that it is nevertheless "Written," and is a universal truthism (axiom?), applying to all men, Jew and Gentile, widely understood and accepted by the Hebrew, and supported by the corpus of canonical Scripture.

Jude cites a prophetic statement by Enoch, (Jude 14), affirming it's authenticity, yet this prophecy did not find it's way into Old Testament canon.

So, the statement, "It is written," does not always demand a verbatem counterpart in the canon of the Old Testament.

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Romans 1:17

Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. Habakkuk 2:4


Edit: The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God... Ps 14:2

[TryTheSpirits]

Thank you for the kind responses.

The core of this is as follows:
1. Paul taught that no one is righteous.
2. The old and new testaments appear to teach the exact opposite.

So, the statement, "It is written," does not always demand a verbatem counterpart in the canon of the Old Testament.

Respectfully and without harsh intent, according to whom is it not demanded? According to the old and new testaments we are to be on the lookout for these things. Jesus said, "it is written man should not live by bread alone." You can find that this is written in the Hebrew scriptures.
De. 8:3
3 So He humbled you, allowed you to hunger, and fed you with manna which you did not know nor did your fathers know, that He might make you know that man shall not live by bread alone; but man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the LORD.

The crux is not a verbatim recitation of the Hebrew scriptures, it is the concept that no one is righteous. I have yet to see any support of this statement within the Hebrew scriptures, prophets or Jesus.

(no one is made righteous through the law, 3:20)

Not according to the prophet Ezekiel - 18:9 "He follows my decrees and faithfully keeps my laws. That man is righteous; he will surely live, declares the Sovereign LORD."

Zechariah and Elizabeth were found righteous for observing the Law.
Luke 1:5-6
5 In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah; and he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.
6 They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord.

Thank you.

[markedward]

There is also the matter that the people who translated the Bible into English may have translated things slightly inconsistently. Translating words can be a difficult, subjective process. As a result, even if you have two Bible verses in the same book that use the exact same phrase in, say, Hebrew, they might be translated ever-so-differently because they were several chapters apart. And even moreso will you find slight differences between the Old Testament and New Testament, because they come from different languages. But the fact that we were able to find a direct match between what Paul said in Romans and in the Psalms, despite the slightly different wording, shows that what Paul was quoting was in the Scriptures.

On the other hand, it might be more troublesome to find a Bible passage like this one:

John 7.38: "Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, 'Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.'"

This a verse that has no direct equivalent in the Old Testament. However, there are several different Bible passages that, when read together, form into a whole, coherent thought that is of the same essence as what Christ is "quoting". From that, we know Christ wasn't trying to make a direct quotation of the Old Testament, he was merely speaking a coherent truth that can be found in the Old Testament.

[Athanasius]

Not according to the prophet Ezekiel - 18:9 "He follows my decrees and faithfully keeps my laws. That man is righteous; he will surely live, declares the Sovereign LORD."

Zechariah and Elizabeth were found righteous for observing the Law.
Luke 1:5-6
5 In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah; and he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.
6 They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord.

Thank you.

They had faith in Christ

[pekoe]

Hi TryTheSpirits.

Paul wrote, "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."

I have yet to see this written anywhere in the Hebrew scriptures.

Thank you.

The OT does say'
"For there isn't a righteous person on earth who does [only] good and never sins." Ecc.7:20

We (that is, all of us) know that this is true. Righteousness may be defined as obedience to the law;

"It will be righteousness for us if we are careful to obey all these mitzvot before Adonai our God, just as He ordered us to do." De.6:25

Also, that people like Zachariah and Elizabeth were blameless doesn't mean they never sinned. The law had provisions for the forgivness of sins and they no doubt used them, therefore they were righteous.

[TryTheSpirits]

The law had provisions for the forgivness of sins and they no doubt used them, therefore they were righteous.

Yes, I do see that as well. Solomon's writing in Ecc. 7:20 is additional evidence that there are righteous people. "For there isn't a righteous person on the earth who (they do exist) does good and never sins."

The concept of righteousness from the Hebrew scriptures is different from that of Paul. Righteousness is not about being sinless. It is about obeying God's Law.

Thank you pekoe for the reference in De. 6:25. I haven't seen that before.

They had faith in Christ

Please look at the dispensation of this from Luke. He is setting the stage and describing Zechariah and Elizabeth before the Messiah was born. This was before the unborn John leaped for joy. They were obeying the Law (which made them righteous before God).

On the other hand, it might be more troublesome to find a Bible passage like this one:

John 7.38: "Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, 'Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.'"

This a verse that has no direct equivalent in the Old Testament. However, there are several different Bible passages that, when read together, form into a whole, coherent thought that is of the same essence as what Christ is "quoting".

Jo. 7:8 in my opinion is not a solid comparison. The essence that no one is righteous or that the Law does not make one righteous is baseless according to the Hebrew scriptures. The essence that the Messiah will be a spiritual savior does exist in the Hebrew scriptures in my view.

The core of this is, "what is the Christian answer for saying that no one is righteous?" From my study, it appears that only Paul has this view which is in direct opposition to the Hebrew scriptures and that of Jesus. I have yet to see any evidence backing the essence of this teaching.

To say that no one is righteous is speaking against them in my view. Please look at Ps. 31:18 "Let the lying lips be put to silence; which speak grievous things proudly and contemptuously against the righteous."

Thank you all for the responses.