OSAS, Ex-Christians will receive Greater Damnation?

[Bladers]

We all know about the OSAS movement, it is nothing new.
To me, I personally believe it is quite dangerous, extremely risky and completely unscriptural.

But apart from that the scripture states:

Hebrews 10:26
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

The AMP states: "there is no longer any sacrifice left to atone for [our] sins [no further offering to which to look forward]."

Of course, those who believe in Eternal Security have no answer to this verse and since there is not such thing as eternal Security.
It is not in the Bible. But there is such a thing as Eternal Life, and his name is Jesus.
But this is not the reason for the topic, If you go on it says...

Verse 27
[There is nothing left for us then] but a kind of awful and fearful prospect and expectation of divine judgment
and the fury of burning wrath and indignation which will consume those who put themselves in opposition [to God]

Now comes the scary part:

Verse 29
Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated(DISGRACED) the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.

The scriptures also warns us about the former people who did such thing: "But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them."

Now that's scary, and the scriptures have warned us to stand fast lest we fall in manner of unbelief and be ungrafted(Romans 11) from the tree of Life, Christ Jesus!

Here the writer of Hebrew is warning Christians again of this dangerous thing,
DO NOT Waver From Your Faith in Christ. He warned us in verse 23.

"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering", He said.
Right before this verse, he called them "brethren" in verse 19. Genuine believers of Christ!

What he had to say to them began in 10:19 and continues throughout the remainder of the chapter is clearly an exhortation to
believers.

These brethren—fellow Christians—were exhorted to “hold fast
[their] confession” (10:23). What does he mean by “the confession of our
hope”? For the author of Hebrews, “our hope” is the very blood of Christ
that has been presented in the heavenly tabernacle on our behalf.

This explains why he could write in Heb 6:19, “This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters
within the veil.” They are to hold fast this confession he said!

This was the second warning, the first warning came in Heb 3:26 when he warned them to hold fast their confidence and the boast of their hope firm until the end.

so in Heb 10:26-31, he is warning the true believers AGAIN who needed to hold fast the confession of their hope in the blood of Christ.
Then he presented the alternative if they did not, he writes in Heb 10:26, “For if we willfully sin” this is the same believers he exhorts in Heb 10:19 and following.

(He also uses “we,” to include himself within the scope of the warning.)

And Immediately after issuing the warning passage of 10:26-31,
he turns their attention to the former days, “when after being enlightened,
you endured a great conflict of sufferings.” At some point in their past,
they had suffered greatly for their faith. The author very specifically says
that this took place after they had been “enlightened,” after the time
of their conversion.

2Pe 2:1: "even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction"

This is serious And we see how dangerous it is to loose this confession and many have. “For some are already turned aside after Satan.“ (1Tim 5:14)

[markedward]

The book of Hebrews provides the most blatantly anti-OSAS Scripture in, well, Scripture.

Hebrews 6.4-6: For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

The author outright says that these people "have tasted the heavenly gift" and they "have shared in the Holy Spirit". He's not talking about non-believers who went to a church service and saw believers enjoying their salvation. He says that these people have taken part in the Christian faith. These people are Christians.

He says that they "have fallen away". How can they "fall away" from Christ if they weren't raised up by him to begin with?

He says that "it is impossible ... to restore them again to repentance". How can they be restored "again" to repentance if they weren't restored to repentance once before?

OSAS has no leg to stand on in relation to Hebrews 6.4-6. There is simply no way to claim the author was speaking about people who were "never really saved" to begin with, because the author describes these people as if they were saved and then left the faith. You can't leave the faith if you weren't "really" a part of it to begin with.

No one can snatch a believer away from Christ against their will. But a believer can walk away from Christ of their own will.

[-SEEKING-]

But lets remember that the book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews. You have to take that into consideration.

[markedward]

Well, with the audience in consideration... how does that change the meaning of 6.4-6? Could you please clarify what you intend to mean?

[-SEEKING-]

Well we've always been under the assumption that those who have tasted applies to Christians. But why can't that just as easily be applied to the Jews/Hebrews. They saw all of God's works and miracles, pre Jesus, and were privy to His blessings. But at the point that Jesus comes they reject him. Not all of them obviously, but especially when you look at the Pharisees. They professed to know God and do His work yet they couldn't recognize Jesus as God when He showed them all His wonderful works. Miracles, teachings and His daily living. Yes in spite of all these things they saw, they purposely turned their backs on Him and rejected him, over and over and over and over, to the point where Jesus tells them that at that point they are sinning the unpardonable sin.

So understanding that the audience of the epistle were Hebrews and not Christians do you not see why there could be the whole debate of OSAS and NOSAS?

[kay-gee]

Well we've always been under the assumption that those who have tasted applies to Christians. But why can't that just as easily be applied to the Jews/Hebrews. They saw all of God's works and miracles, pre Jesus, and were privy to His blessings. But at the point that Jesus comes they reject him. Not all of them obviously, but especially when you look at the Pharisees. They professed to know God and do His work yet they couldn't recognize Jesus as God when He showed them all His wonderful works. Miracles, teachings and His daily living. Yes in spite of all these things they saw, they purposely turned their backs on Him and rejected him, over and over and over and over, to the point where Jesus tells them that at that point they are sinning the unpardonable sin.

So understanding that the audience of the epistle were Hebrews and not Christians do you not see why there could be the whole debate of OSAS and NOSAS?

HUH? The book of Hebrews was written to Jewish CHRISTIANS. (Heb 3:1)

all the best...

[Bladers]

But lets remember that the book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews. You have to take that into consideration.

The author had first mentioned their “confession” as early as Heb 3:1, where he had referred to the readers as “holy brethren.”

He used the adjective “holy” (hagios) to describe them, precisely because they had been “sanctified” (hagiazo„) by the “leader of their salvation” (2:10-11).

Furthermore, those partaking of this sanctification (at the new birth)
are those whom He is not ashamed to call “brethren” (2:11).

There should be no mistaking that after this careful definition of “brethren” in chapter two,
subsequent references throughout the book clearly have in mind “genuine believers.”
For this reason, his address to them as “brethen“ and also stated how they suffered for Christ.

Hebrews 3:1
"Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;"

Then he later said, ""Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering", unless if we don't then worse punishment awaits

[kay-gee]

But lets remember that the book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews. You have to take that into consideration.

And that matters how?

all the best...

[Partaker of Christ]

The book of Hebrews provides the most blatantly anti-OSAS Scripture in, well, Scripture.

Hebrews 6.4-6: For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

The author outright says that these people "have tasted the heavenly gift" and they "have shared in the Holy Spirit". He's not talking about non-believers who went to a church service and saw believers enjoying their salvation. He says that these people have taken part in the Christian faith. These people are Christians.

He says that they "have fallen away". How can they "fall away" from Christ if they weren't raised up by him to begin with?

He says that "it is impossible ... to restore them again to repentance". How can they be restored "again" to repentance if they weren't restored to repentance once before?

OSAS has no leg to stand on in relation to Hebrews 6.4-6. There is simply no way to claim the author was speaking about people who were "never really saved" to begin with, because the author describes these people as if they were saved and then left the faith. You can't leave the faith if you weren't "really" a part of it to begin with.

No one can snatch a believer away from Christ against their will. But a believer can walk away from Christ of their own will.

I would say it is very much, one of the most Pro OSAS there is!!!!!!!!!!
It is one of the passages that turned me from NOSAS, to very much OSAS

Matt 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

[Slug1]

One of the most relevant scriptures that shows that OSAS isn't possible is this:

John 15: 1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

In v2, Jesus is speaking about those in "Him". That those who don't bear fruit... "He", or God the Father, takes away.

In v6, Jesus tells us what happens to those who were once in Him but didn't abide... they're tossed in the fire and burned.

So, those "in Me" as we read in v2 are those who have put their faith in Jesus otherwise they wouldn't be "in Him"... but for their lack of obedience, get cut away (removed by God the Father)... this I would assume is a Christian falling away from faith in Jesus and never seeking repentance.

[-SEEKING-]

That's an excellent point Slug. Honestly right now I don't know where I stand on the topic. I made mention of Hebrews because I felt it was worth at least considering. But your post is a very strong case against OSAS.

[My heart's Desire]

One of the most relevant scriptures that shows that OSAS isn't possible is this:

John 15: 1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

In v2, Jesus is speaking about those in "Him". That those who don't bear fruit... "He", or God the Father, takes away.

In v6, Jesus tells us what happens to those who were once in Him but didn't abide... they're tossed in the fire and burned.

So, those "in Me" as we read in v2 are those who have put their faith in Jesus otherwise they wouldn't be "in Him"... but for their lack of obedience, get cut away (removed by God the Father)... this I would assume is a Christian falling away from faith in Jesus and never seeking repentance.

But then again, in the midst of all that He says "you are ALREADY clean because of the word I've spoken to you". Now if abiding in Him was all there was to it then why have an extra line about already being clean because of the word? Perhaps because only someone already clean will abide in Him to begin with? And if so then that person will bear fruit.

We also know that though the works of some will some day be burned yet He himself will be saved as yet by fire.

[ThyWordIsTruth]

But then again, in the midst of all that He says "you are ALREADY clean because of the word I've spoken to you". Now if abiding in Him was all there was to it then why have an extra line about already being clean because of the word? Perhaps because only someone already clean will abide in Him to begin with? And if so then that person will bear fruit.

We also know that though the works of some will some day be burned yet He himself will be saved as yet by fire.

Not true, because Christ said:

Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

We cannot be in Christ unless we were first truly regenerated. That is what the Holy Spirit does at regeneration isn't it, it makes us one with Christ.

There are also other verses in the Bible like these:
1Ch 28:9 "And you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a whole heart and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches all hearts and understands every plan and thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever.

Rom 11:19 Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.
Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
Rom 11:22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

1Co 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
1Co 15:2 and by which you are being saved, IF you hold fast to the word I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.

Col 1:22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,
Col 1:23 IF indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Heb 3:12 Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called "today," that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14 For we have come to share in Christ, IF indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

Mat 24:13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Rev 3:5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.
- the clear opposite is clear; the one who does not conquer will have his name blotted out of the book of life.

[ThyWordIsTruth]

2Ti 2:11 The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him;
2Ti 2:12 IF we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;

Examples of those who fell away:
1Ti 1:18 This charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, that by them you may wage the good warfare,
1Ti 1:19 holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith,
1Ti 1:20 among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

2Ti 2:16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,
2Ti 2:17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,
2Ti 2:18 who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some.

[Slug1]

But then again, in the midst of all that He says "you are ALREADY clean because of the word I've spoken to you". Now if abiding in Him was all there was to it then why have an extra line about already being clean because of the word? Perhaps because only someone already clean will abide in Him to begin with? And if so then that person will bear fruit.

We also know that though the works of some will some day be burned yet He himself will be saved as yet by fire.

I underlined the part I want to key in on cause this is basically the line all OSAS campers use. They basically say... "well, they weren't really saved then".

Fine... but scripture in v2 says "in Me". So "they" that the scripture is talking about ARE saved because if they weren't, then they would not be "in Christ".

Yet God the Father "takes" them away from His Son due to their lack of willingness to produce fruit.

It falls in the 'faith without works is dead', we read in James chapter 2. Those "in Christ" (saved Christians or they wouldn't be in Christ) but become dead for whatever the reason and the reason in all this scripture is production of fruit... God the Father, basically boots them out.