Does This Prove We Should All Speak in Tongues?

[RedemptionAddict]

I’ve been developing a study on the subject of praying in tongues and wanted to get some feedback from you guys. For me, the best way to see if a doctrine holds water is to expose it to a barrage of differing viewpoints and criticisms.
So my question to you is: Can you locate any biblical errors in the following points?

Objective:
Prove that every believer can and should pray
in tongues:
1. God tells all believers to pray in the Spirit (Eph 6:18, Jude 1:20). The only biblical description of “praying in the Spirit” is given in 1Cor 14:2 and 1Cor 14:14-16


2. God tells all believers to pray with “every kind of prayer”(Eph 6:18) And praying in tongues is a kind of prayer (1Cor 14;2 and 1Cor 14:14-16)

3. God inspired Paul to tell every Christian that His intent and purpose for them is to pray in tongues (1Cor 14:5)

Now let me preface this by saying I’m not sure if this discussion will be a success since I am usually only able to check the boards once a week (people get bored easily if you don’t respond quick enough).
Second, to just kind of give you an idea of where I’m coming from: I’m a big fan of Occam’s Razour. And I try to stay as close to the actual text of the Bible as possible. In other words, if you were to ask me what John 3:16 means I’m more likely to quote it back to you than to give a ten page discourse of ‘what it really means.’ To me, this is usually the safest route to take.

[markedward]

Read two chapters earlier...

1 Corinthians 12.29-31: Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

Are all apostles? No.
Are all prophets? No.
Are all teachers? No.
Do all work miracles? No.
Do all possess gifts of healing? No.
Do all speak with tongues? No.

[goykodesh]

Jesus taught the crowd to pray like this when He recited the Amidah.

He also told us how not to pray.

Mat 6:7 NKJV
(7) And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words

You can't go wrong following Jesus.

[RedemptionAddict]

Read two chapters earlier...

1 Corinthians 12.29-31: Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

Are all apostles? No.
Are all prophets? No.
Are all teachers? No.
Do all work miracles? No.
Do all possess gifts of healing? No.
Do all speak with tongues? No.

Thanks for the input. I thought about this scripture too. But it does not say whether we SHOULD it only says that not all do. We could ask the same question of salvation 'are all saved' No. But does God want all to be saved? yes.

But beyond that, he includes prophecy in this list too. Yet we know all can prophesy (1Cor 14:31, 14:39) and all should. So if I were to rule out tongues because of the question I would also rule out prophesying.

[markedward]

Thanks for the input. I thought about this scripture too. But it does not say whether we SHOULD it only says that not all do.

Right... it only says that not all do. So... why would it be wise to assume that all should if Paul doesn't say that all should?

But beyond that, he includes prophecy in this list too. Yet we know all can prophesy (1Cor 14:31, 14:39) and all should.

For example, here you claim that "all should". Yet you don't provide Scripture to support your claim. Can you provide Scripture that explicitly says all should speak in tongues, or prophesy?

[RabbiKnife]

Basic problem to start with.

You are approaching the text with a preconceived idea trying to see if it "proves" something.

Let the text speak for itself.

You begin with an assumption that "praying in the Spirit" means "praying in tongues."

When you bring presuppositions that are not well founded to the text, you always end up at the wrong conclusion.

[HisLeast]

Thanks for the input. I thought about this scripture too. But it does not say whether we SHOULD it only says that not all do. We could ask the same question of salvation 'are all saved' No. But does God want all to be saved? yes.

The questions are posed rhetorically so as to make their "no" answer obvious.

[RedemptionAddict]

Basic problem to start with.

You are approaching the text with a preconceived idea trying to see if it "proves" something.

Let the text speak for itself.

You begin with an assumption that "praying in the Spirit" means "praying in tongues."

When you bring presuppositions that are not well founded to the text, you always end up at the wrong conclusion.

I defined praying in the Spirit with scripture. You disagree? Why?

[RedemptionAddict]

The questions are posed rhetorically so as to make their "no" answer obvious.

I agree. But asking whether someone does something does not tell us whether they should . . .

For instance . . .

Do all obey the speed limit?

The answer is no . . . But it does not address whether all should. So the text does not address whether we should. See my post to markward

[HisLeast]

I agree. But asking whether someone does something does not tell us whether they should . . .

Should we always assume a "should"?

[markedward]

The context of 1 Corinthians 14.14-16 is speaking in tongues... in no way does Paul say that "praying in the Spirit" can only be done in tongues...

GotQuestions responds to this aptly, I think:

Paul instructs us to “pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests.” How are we to pray with all kinds of prayers and requests and pray for the saints, if no one, including the person praying, understands what is being said? Therefore, praying in the Spirit should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will, not as praying in tongues.

[slightlypuzzled]

I’ve been developing a study on the subject of praying in tongues and wanted to get some feedback from you guys. For me, the best way to see if a doctrine holds water is to expose it to a barrage of differing viewpoints and criticisms.
So my question to you is: Can you locate any biblical errors in the following points?

Objective:
Prove that every believer can and should pray
in tongues:
1. God tells all believers to pray in the Spirit (Eph 6:18, Jude 1:20). The only biblical description of “praying in the Spirit” is given in 1Cor 14:2 and 1Cor 14:14-16


2. God tells all believers to pray with “every kind of prayer”(Eph 6:18) And praying in tongues is a kind of prayer (1Cor 14;2 and 1Cor 14:14-16)

3. God inspired Paul to tell every Christian that His intent and purpose for them is to pray in tongues (1Cor 14:5)

Now let me preface this by saying I’m not sure if this discussion will be a success since I am usually only able to check the boards once a week (people get bored easily if you don’t respond quick enough).
Second, to just kind of give you an idea of where I’m coming from: I’m a big fan of Occam’s Razour. And I try to stay as close to the actual text of the Bible as possible. In other words, if you were to ask me what John 3:16 means I’m more likely to quote it back to you than to give a ten page discourse of ‘what it really means.’ To me, this is usually the safest route to take.

Paul tells us in Rom. 8:26 that the Spirit 'intercedes' for us. Your syllogism only works if the two instances share some sort of equality. It is quite possible that verse 18 is referring back to verse seventeen where the Spirit is mentioned in conjunction with the word of God. Paul could simply be exhorting the Ephesians to pray in the power of the word of God, to use the sword of the Spirit to approach prayer aggressively and powerfully...as the Spirit prays for us, we pray for others in the power of God. The emphasis is not on 'Tongues' but on the mode and attitude of prayer that is needed.

[RedemptionAddict]

Should we always assume a "should"?

Please expound, friend

[HisLeast]

Please expound, friend

Well, a plain reading of that chapter of Corinthians seems to indicate a plain statement that we don't all exercise every one of those gifts. Yet you believe there is a "should" implicit to the passage. Since I can't find a "should" implicit to the passage I'm wondering if its a function of study that I'm missing, whereby I should always assume "I should" when I read "some don't".

[moonglow]

I’ve been developing a study on the subject of praying in tongues and wanted to get some feedback from you guys. For me, the best way to see if a doctrine holds water is to expose it to a barrage of differing viewpoints and criticisms.
So my question to you is: Can you locate any biblical errors in the following points?

Objective:
Prove that every believer can and should pray
in tongues:
1. God tells all believers to pray in the Spirit (Eph 6:18, Jude 1:20). The only biblical description of “praying in the Spirit” is given in 1Cor 14:2 and 1Cor 14:14-16


2. God tells all believers to pray with “every kind of prayer”(Eph 6:18) And praying in tongues is a kind of prayer (1Cor 14;2 and 1Cor 14:14-16)

3. God inspired Paul to tell every Christian that His intent and purpose for them is to pray in tongues (1Cor 14:5)

Now let me preface this by saying I’m not sure if this discussion will be a success since I am usually only able to check the boards once a week (people get bored easily if you don’t respond quick enough).
Second, to just kind of give you an idea of where I’m coming from: I’m a big fan of Occam’s Razour. And I try to stay as close to the actual text of the Bible as possible. In other words, if you were to ask me what John 3:16 means I’m more likely to quote it back to you than to give a ten page discourse of ‘what it really means.’ To me, this is usually the safest route to take.

I don't see 1Cor 14:2 as being an example to pray in the spirit actually. It doesn't say anything about praying but says this:

1 Corinthians 14
Prophecy and Tongues
1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

Even this one it seems Paul is discouraging praying in tongues when others are around:

1 Corinthians 14:14-16 (New King James Version)

14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. 16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?

Paul stresses that when anyone speaks in tongues in church their must be an Interpreter otherwise it does nothing for the body of Christ. Even checking the other verses posted I see nothing that says every believer should only prayer to God in tongues. Especially since Paul says each one of us has different spiritual gifts and not everyone can speak or pray in tongues.

1 Corinthians 12

4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

God bless