Neither Jew Nor Gentile
Why do you ask? Just joking!!!!!!!!!Originally Posted by Truthinlove
Totally off-topic question, but.....
Firstfruits....why do your threads always so have so many !!!!!! ??????????
I had to ask
ok
I cannot really say, I can only say that it helps to know what others believe and sometimes a question helps.
God bless you!!!!!!!!!
Tell me, what do you think about.................LOL!!!!
Firstfruits
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
Has the spirit of God not already revealed to us what to expect of the antichrist when he comes, and by what means he shall deceive the earth?
Firstfruits
Afr.Forum Mod
But not every one knows........ even tho He has told us....
And because of that, they shall be deceived
Fenris: "There are two ways to shoot an arrow into a bulls-eye You can shoot the arrow into the bulls-eye or you can shoot the arrow and paint the bulls-eye wherever it hits"
Romans 12:19 Don't seek revenge ... give place to God's wrath. For it is written "Vengeance belongs to me; I will repay, says the Lord"
Isa. 30:32
And every blow of the rod of punishment, which the Lord will lay on him, will be with the music of tambourines and lyres; And in battles, brandishing weapons, He will fight them
G_d was gracious He has shown favor
What are you willing to die for? Now live for it!
guest
When the illumination of Gods Spirit is removed there will be only darkness. Who then can find his way in the darkness? The entrance of Gods word giveth light. His word is a light unto our path and a lamp unto our feet.
Apart from God we stumble and curse the darkness.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Formerly moonglow
Well first the beast is not THE antichrist...nor does he claim to be Christ or comes in Christ Name. None of this will make sense to you if you add things to the scriptures that aren't there like calling him the antichrist. Hollywood movies call him the antichrist..and sadly many Christian based books but the bible never ever refers to him as an antichrist.
Nor does it say he deceives anyone into thinking he is God either.
Show me where in Revelation 13 you are seeing this stuff:
Revelation 13
The Beast from the Sea
1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
The Beast from the Earth
11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.
Ok to rehash this..the first beast blasphemy against God...he does not claim to be God at all. Second he makes war against the saints...meaning us..believers. Third, it says the only ones deceived are those who's names are not written in the book of life...meaning nonbelievers. There is not one thing there about either beast deceiving believers. Those that refuse to worship the image and take the mark are killed.
To avoid things from getting too complicated at this point, because first we have to see scriptures as they are without mixing them up with other verses in the bible, I am going to say this:
First we know those that are deceived are not Christians. We know many people throughout the world follow other religions or belief systems where they claim great miracles have taken place. A person could easily say at this point that the nonbelievers all start worshiping Allah because a follower did some astounding things...or maybe one of those Hindu statues did something...or possibly its a whole new religions all together, something unheard of as yet and the beasts pull off what appears to be a great miracles. You would be surprised how fickle people are. I have watched video's on other faiths on youtube before and read the comments and seen people say because the music was so beautiful they wanted to become a Hindu...I have seen people in Islamic chat rooms enjoy the recorded soothing male voice reading parts of the Quan say they want to become followers because of the simple calming effect the voice had on them.
It doesn't seem to take much for those not anchored in a solid belief to be swayed to something new. They are easily deceived ..These are the people from the earth..born from the dirt of the earth as we all are ..as the bible says from dust we came to dust we will return again.
Genesis 3:19
By the sweat of your brow will you have food to eat until you return to the ground from which you were made. For you were made from dust,and to dust you will return.”
As Christians though we are not those who dwell on the earth but born of the spirit when we are born again.
John 3
5 Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. 6 Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. 7 So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can’t tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can’t explain how people are born of the Spirit.”
9 “How are these things possible?” Nicodemus asked.
10 Jesus replied, “You are a respected Jewish teacher, and yet you don’t understand these things? 11 I assure you, we tell you what we know and have seen, and yet you won’t believe our testimony. 12 But if you don’t believe me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things?
Before you can understand who the beast is though you have to quit saying he will claim to be God because Revelation 13 doesn't say that. And you have to quit calling him the antichrist too because the bible doesn't address him that way. You have to first just not add to what Revelation says...just see what it says without all the preconceived ideas.
Ok?
God bless
"People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson
Formerly moonglow
Ok I thought I replied to this but now I can't find the post...I did a quick reply and its lost??? Or I am just not seeing it..
I think this new layout is boggling my brain!
I'll come back later and look again...
"People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson
Veteran
Hello Firstfruits,
What we have been talking about is Matthew 24:4-5 . These Deceivers are not saying they are God. They are coming in Christ name, saying (preaching) Jesus is Christ. And I think I see some ways that Christians might have been deceived already, because a lot of Christians don’t ask why they do things that they do as Christians. As a example, -- A while back I was studying about Easter and Passover. I found that Jesus and all the apostles and Paul kept the Passover, and I was wondering why and when it was changed to Easter. A opportunity to ask came up a thread and I ask Why. The response I got was that - We keep Easter because we are Christians. (Somebody had to change it -- Constantine ?) Now I have more questions, like -- The apostles and Paul all kept the Sabbath, Even Gentiles are grafted in and become Israel. It is the 4th commandment and it says KEEP IT. (Ex 31:13 )a sign between God and His people. Who changed it? I found this answer, -- Constantine made the change, March 7, 321. But not very many Christians question anything they do, and think somehow God will stop them. Revelations 13, is not antichrist , It is the two Beast, I think the first is Constantine. But nobody looks to see what else Constantine did to Deceive the Christian Church.By what means does he deceive the earth into beliieving that he is God, as many have claimed to be the messiah? So what sets apart the antichrist of Revelation 13 from all others?
Mt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many
TWTaylor
Formerly moonglow
Ok going to try to remember what I said before where I guess it didn't go through on the quick reply..
Even the JW get it right with that one statement..Jesus is the Messiah..the rest of the stuff they add of course isn't right or the truth of course. Even the demons as someone posted declare Jesus the Messiah...that is the truth. The rest of what they might say though may not be the truth of course. So my point it no matter who says Jesus is the Messiah is saying the truth. What I thought T W Taylor was saying was anyone saying this was saying something false...but its not false to say Jesus is the Messiah.
I understand what you are saying but the beast in Revelation never says he comes in the name of Jesus at all. In fact he says some pretty bad things about God. If someone curses God which the beast does, why would any Christian in their right mind think they were coming in the name of Christ or God? It would make no sense to be even remotely tricked into taking a mark by someone cursing God. There is nothing either in Revelation that say the beast will try to trick us into taking the mark to prove we believe in God either. Nor does it say he will try to get us to break the law to prove we believe in God. I just posted the whole chapter on Revelation 13 so you can read for yourself and see if what I say is true or not. I hope it benefits you. I also hope you are having a good day.T W Taylor
Quote Originally Posted by moonglow
I just don't understand your post. you say this:
I say Jesus is the Christ...how would that make me or you a deceiver when that is the truth?
Hello Moonglow, I would think that if a (Master) deceiver that wanted to deveive us, -- he would want you think he was comming in Jesus name. preaching to us about Jesus being the Christ, and then getting you to want to maybe take a mark on your forehead to show that you belong to Christ, or maybe, take a little image of that mark and hold it in your hand or maybe get you to break God's Law, and the sign that you are God's people and get you to worship on another day, or (if you are of Israel) make you think you are a gentile. But to keep from being deceive, We have to scaerch the scriptures, to find out if what he says is true, And I have seen that you know how to study and find the truth. I hope God gives you a good day Moonglow. TWT
God bless
"People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson
Formerly moonglow
That is true and a good post though I am surprised many didn't agree with you on that. Easter was made to remember the Risen Christ..its not a holiday listed in the bible though of course the passages about His rising are there. More and more Christians on here are having Passover services..we go to one at my mom's church every year before Easter...I think its extremely important to know why the Jews observed this and why Jesus had His last supper then too..the two are intertwined.
There are many Christians on here in fact that will not celebrate Easter at all. I would explain why but it will get us off topic too far. Its not good or bad to celebrate Easter actually.
Colossians 2:16
So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths.
We have freedoms in Christ and as Christians don't follow alot of the Jewish customs as the Jews do. Though some Christians do to have a deeper and better understanding of Jesus..which I think it great. I haven't done alot of studying on the festivals and all their holidays like some on here have though.
You might have been discussing that passage on here but fristfruit keeps bringing up Revelation 13..and with the wording done I think mixing that in along with several other passages and trying to apply them to the beast which is causing alot of confusion.What we have been talking about is Matthew 24:4-5 . These Deceivers are not saying they are God. They are coming in Christ name, saying (preaching) Jesus is Christ.
So I think it might help with any further posts people state what passages they have in mind like you just did. I am focused only on Revelation 13 currently and the two beasts.
God bless
"People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson
Love edifies
With lying signs and wonders. This is how the world will be deceived, but nothing says that he will pretend to be Jesus or claim to come in His holy Name. He will come in his own name and make blasphemous claims, claiming himself to be god.
Actually I am very fond of emphasizing my words by bolding, underlining, caps or changing colors and I also love !!
It's just funny because I know a post is started by you when I see !!!! hahahaha
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
Thanks Ta-An,
What is it that we have been told to expect concerning the antichrist, that we will not believe,and that we would rather believe a le and be deceived?
Firstfruits
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
Does the darkness not apply to all antichrists?
What therefore makes the antichrist that Jesus spoke of regarding that which Daniel wrote different to the rest?
Firstfruits
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
Then if what Jesus said we should look for, and what Daniel said, and that which is written in 2 Thesalonians 2 are not the same person, if not, then all those events have not yet been fulfilled. So at some point the antichrist will claim to be God, as others have done before, but it will not be like those gone before.Well first the beast is not THE antichrist...nor does he claim to be Christ or comes in Christ Name. None of this will make sense to you if you add things to the scriptures that aren't there like calling him the antichrist. Hollywood movies call him the antichrist..and sadly many Christian based books but the bible never ever refers to him as an antichrist.
Nor does it say he deceives anyone into thinking he is God either.
Show me where in Revelation 13 you are seeing this stuff:
Revelation 13
The Beast from the Sea
1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
The Beast from the Earth
11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.
Ok to rehash this..the first beast blasphemy against God...he does not claim to be God at all. Second he makes war against the saints...meaning us..believers. Third, it says the only ones deceived are those who's names are not written in the book of life...meaning nonbelievers. There is not one thing there about either beast deceiving believers. Those that refuse to worship the image and take the mark are killed.
To avoid things from getting too complicated at this point, because first we have to see scriptures as they are without mixing them up with other verses in the bible, I am going to say this:
First we know those that are deceived are not Christians. We know many people throughout the world follow other religions or belief systems where they claim great miracles have taken place. A person could easily say at this point that the nonbelievers all start worshiping Allah because a follower did some astounding things...or maybe one of those Hindu statues did something...or possibly its a whole new religions all together, something unheard of as yet and the beasts pull off what appears to be a great miracles. You would be surprised how fickle people are. I have watched video's on other faiths on youtube before and read the comments and seen people say because the music was so beautiful they wanted to become a Hindu...I have seen people in Islamic chat rooms enjoy the recorded soothing male voice reading parts of the Quan say they want to become followers because of the simple calming effect the voice had on them.
It doesn't seem to take much for those not anchored in a solid belief to be swayed to something new. They are easily deceived ..
Genesis 3:19
By the sweat of your brow will you have food to eat until you return to the ground from which you were made. For you were made from dust,and to dust you will return.”
As Christians though we are not those who dwell on the earth but born of the spirit when we are born again.
John 3
5 Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. 6 Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. 7 So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can’t tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can’t explain how people are born of the Spirit.”
9 “How are these things possible?” Nicodemus asked.
10 Jesus replied, “You are a respected Jewish teacher, and yet you don’t understand these things? 11 I assure you, we tell you what we know and have seen, and yet you won’t believe our testimony. 12 But if you don’t believe me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things?
Before you can understand who the beast is though you have to quit saying he will claim to be God because Revelation 13 doesn't say that. And you have to quit calling him the antichrist too because the bible doesn't address him that way. You have to first just not add to what Revelation says...just see what it says without all the preconceived ideas.
Ok?
God bless
Firstfruits
Neither Jew Nor Gentile
Is Jesus not God?
Is the beast not against Jesus and God?
Is the antichrist not against Jesus and God?
All that are against God and Jesus are antichrist.
Firstfruits
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