Share the Gospel with the Future

[Gilligan]

Question Gilligan...

Since you know next to nothing about me, would you put your life in my hands? Of course not. Why then do we assume that someone that doesn't know or trust us is going to place their eternal life in our hands? People need to trust the messenger before they are willing to trust the message.

Does it happen? Sometimes. But more often than ALL other means combined, people come to accept Christ through a friend (85%). Also, the average number of significant encounters before someone accepts Christ is 5, it is rarely a one time event.

That is a good point.

[Slug1]

That is a good point.

Yep, many times any witness you are led to is to simply plant a seed. The Lord has many more vessels lined up to water that seed until they place trust in God and He causes the seed to sprout into faith in Him.

That seed the Lord used you to plant... may not have even involved any words being exchanged. Here you are, a Christian standing on a street corner and a person sees you go out of your way to help a person on the street. Or you gave a hug to that homeless person who walked by you and you gave them a dollar. Someone sees you praying for a person who accepted your offer of prayer. The Lord can use us in ways we'll never know.

edit: Something I want to say as I reread this... let me pull that example with the dollar back out. Let's say that this was done by the person who is witnessing on the corner to "Look Christian"... you better believe the enemy will take that and use it against them. WHY? Because it was not led by the Holy Spirit and the enemy can play with it. If giving that dollar was placed in the Christian's heart and they were obedient to the prompting, it's a protected act of "GOD", not a work of the flesh to look good, or look credible before others. The enemy can't touch it and the Lord will produce glory from that act of obedience.

[Gilligan]

Good Point. I have had others tell me my ministry is a seed planting one. I got a message on a question and answer forum saying: "The plants outside are dying, water them, even if they are not yours."

[jandl]

Does it happen? Sometimes. But more often than ALL other means combined, people come to accept Christ through a friend (85%). Also, the average number of significant encounters before someone accepts Christ is 5, it is rarely a one time event.

Baloney. What nonsense. 85% through friends? what a laugh. Millions were saved in the eighteeth and nineteenth century through hearing a sermon by someone who wasn't their friend. These names of preachers include Billy Sunday, Spurgeon, Moody, William Carey, and Charles G. Finney. The thing that most offends me about YOU, brother, is that you tell another brother to THROW away his Jack Chick booklets on REVIVAL and christian living.....WHY? This is utterly sickening. The book that he read, "THE LAST CALL," was basically written from the sermons and writings of Charles G. Finney. What the church needs right NOW is the FIRE that Jack Chick and his books and tracts puts into the heart of the reader. If it weren't for the last call, and having read it back in 98, no telling where my life would be right now.
People do get saved from hearing preaching on the street, in parks, in churches, door to door, and other ways, MUCH more than through friendship. I wonder where you got your statistics and why you blatantly left out the revivals of the 17 and 1800's.
God bless Jack Chick and keep reading them brother. The whole thing about not wanting to appear hypocritical to the world is really a CALL to clean your life up and give the world no reason to accuse you of sin.
I have no problem with friendship, but that is a horrible reason to tell a brother to THROW away his Jack Chick material.

[Firefighter]

Baloney. What nonsense. 85% through friends? what a laugh. Millions were saved in the eighteeth and nineteenth century through hearing a sermon by someone who wasn't their friend. These names of preachers include Billy Sunday, Spurgeon, Moody, William Carey, and Charles G. Finney. The thing that most offends me about YOU, brother, is that you tell another brother to THROW away his Jack Chick booklets on REVIVAL and christian living.....WHY? This is utterly sickening. The book that he read, "THE LAST CALL," was basically written from the sermons and writings of Charles G. Finney. What the church needs right NOW is the FIRE that Jack Chick and his books and tracts puts into the heart of the reader. If it weren't for the last call, and having read it back in 98, no telling where my life would be right now.
People do get saved from hearing preaching on the street, in parks, in churches, door to door, and other ways, MUCH more than through friendship. I wonder where you got your statistics and why you blatantly left out the revivals of the 17 and 1800's.
God bless Jack Chick and keep reading them brother. The whole thing about not wanting to appear hypocritical to the world is really a CALL to clean your life up and give the world no reason to accuse you of sin.
I have no problem with friendship, but that is a horrible reason to tell a brother to THROW away his Jack Chick material.

In fear of stating the obvious... You DON"T live in the 18th and 19th century. Welcome to a post modern society. Welcome to the 21st Century.

All of my statistics can be found at Barna's website...

[Firefighter]

People do get saved from hearing preaching on the street, in parks, in churches, door to door, and other ways, MUCH more than through friendship. I wonder where you got your statistics and why you blatantly left out the revivals of the 17 and 1800's.

Now please tell me where you get YOUR statistics from...

[HisLeast]

Baloney. What nonsense. 85% through friends? what a laugh.

Yeah I'm clutching my gut and rolling all over the floor here.... except I haven't met one single person who was saved because an impersonal 3rd party coincidentally convicted them. If we want to talk about laughs, lets talk about Jack Chick included in the ranks of such people as Spurgeon and Moody. Moody ministered to people. The first thing he did was collect the most miserable urchins and societal dregs Chicago could offer and ministered to them in what lowly hovels he could find. Moody was always, always, always where the action was. You can bet your last dollar that people listened to Moody because he had earned their trust and respect (directly or via reputation), and not simply because he was a man-over-there-talkin'. He most definitely didn't minister to people by shoving a track in their hands and walking away with a clear conscience.

The thing that most offends me about YOU, brother, is that you tell another brother to THROW away his Jack Chick booklets on REVIVAL and christian living.....WHY?

Because tracks are impersonal, and too often replace genuine human interaction. Chick tracks in particular are cartoonish charicatures of real life problems and (with notable exceptions) give the impression that everything will magically be ok once one comes to Christ. But the most damning things about track pushing is that...
1) It doesn't address people's ethical and intellectual dilemas about God.
2) It simply doesn't speak to people's hearts.
3) On the off chance that it does convict someone, they're alone and adrift with no other guidance.
4) It is cold and impersonal.

This is utterly sickening.

God forbid we actually get involved in people's lives. God forbid we be there for people. God forbid we answer people's questions personally. What I find utterly sickening is the idea that tracks can substitute for this kind of ministry.

[Gilligan]

In fear of stating the obvious... You DON"T live in the 18th and 19th century. Welcome to a post modern society. Welcome to the 21st Century.

All of my statistics can be found at Barna's website...

Isn't God the same in the 21st century (modern street preachers, Chick tracts, etc.) as He was in the 18th and 19th centuries (days of Wesley, Spurgeon, Finney, etc.)?

[HisLeast]

Isn't God the same in the 21st century (modern street preachers, Chick tracts, etc.) as He was in the 18th and 19th centuries (days of Wesley, Spugeon, Finney, etc.)?

Wesley, Spurgeon, Finney, and Moody weren't anywhere the same as modern street preachers or track pushers.

[Firefighter]

Isn't God the same in the 21st century (modern street preachers, Chick tracts, etc.) as He was in the 18th and 19th centuries (days of Wesley, Spugeon, Finney, etc.)?

Yes. He is the same God He was in the 1st Century before pulpits, church buildings, tracts, the song Amazing Grace, offering plates, etc. What did the disciples use??? What did Jesus use??? Should we really look toward Wesley, Spugeon, Finney, etc. when God has given us HIS WORD???

[RabbiKnife]

I suppose that I should get out my bathrobe and parchments, just to get all "old school" on the evangelism thingy there.

I think I'll go buy a Jack Chick tract to give to my once atheist now agnostic buddy that is going through a miserable divorce. Yeah, that should do it.

[jandl]

In fear of stating the obvious... You DON"T live in the 18th and 19th century. Welcome to a post modern society. Welcome to the 21st Century.

All of my statistics can be found at Barna's website...

Moe baloney. Who cares what DAY today is, or what year. If you really do believe the word, like you say, then you know that IT says, "For it pleased God BY THE foolishness of preaching to SAVE them that believe." Nothing about friendship. Again, in case you blatantly misunderstand me, friendship IS wonderful. I have led several people to Christ that way, but it is NO substitute for preaching. The Bible bears this out.

[jandl]

Now please tell me where you get YOUR statistics from...

Something people call HISTORY books, church history books. MILLIONS upon millions led to Christ through preaching. Jonathan Wesley, Whitefield are some more names I'll throw out there.

[jandl]

Yeah I'm clutching my gut and rolling all over the floor here.... except I haven't met one single person who was saved because an impersonal 3rd party coincidentally convicted them.

Hmmm. I have met about 20 people personally who claimed to get saved after picking up a Chick tract in a phone booth or grocery store shelf. I have read about many more that have as well. What is this eeery movement going on in church's today that deems gospel tracts to be worthless or no longer functioning?

If we want to talk about laughs, lets talk about Jack Chick included in the ranks of such people as Spurgeon and Moody. Moody ministered to people. The first thing he did was collect the most miserable urchins and societal dregs Chicago could offer and ministered to them in what lowly hovels he could find. Moody was always, always, always where the action was. You can bet your last dollar that people listened to Moody because he had earned their trust and respect (directly or via reputation), and not simply because he was a man-over-there-talkin'. He most definitely didn't minister to people by shoving a track in their hands and walking away with a clear conscience.

You are forgetting one ALL-IMPORTANT fact. NOBODY SAVES anybody else. The SPIRIT draws people to a SAVIOR who loves them and convict them of sin. FRIENDS don't do this and neither does Jack Chick, Moody, Spurgeon, and anybody else.

Because tracks are impersonal, and too often replace genuine human interaction. Chick tracks in particular are cartoonish charicatures of real life problems and (with notable exceptions) give the impression that everything will magically be ok once one comes to Christ. But the most damning things about track pushing is that...
1) It doesn't address people's ethical and intellectual dilemas about God.
2) It simply doesn't speak to people's hearts.
3) On the off chance that it does convict someone, they're alone and adrift with no other guidance.
4) It is cold and impersonal.

A piece of advice- quit dogging tracts. Do you realize how many people we CAN'T talk to that CAN read a tract in their free time. A bad impression sometimes simply CANNOT be avoided. After all, the gospel is how that Christ DIED (negative) for SINNERS (very negative). It turns off people. Don't use Chick as a crutch for blaming the gospel for being too impersonal. Tracts do indeed speak to hearts, but as with anything else, that heart has to be ready to hear. Tracts have been used for many centuries. Now is NOT the time to dismiss them. Personal evangelism is great and I in no way disagree with it, but don't abandon tracts because you may not SEE the results. God is a SPIRIT and someday we will know what all he HAS done with even the simple things, like tracts.

God forbid we actually get involved in people's lives. God forbid we be there for people. God forbid we answer people's questions personally. What I find utterly sickening is the idea that tracks can substitute for this kind of ministry.

Nobody is saying that. Get off your soap box and realize that ALL these different forms of evangelism have their part.

[HisLeast]

Hmmm. I have met about 20 people personally who claimed to get saved after picking up a Chick tract in a phone booth or grocery store shelf. I have read about many more that have as well. What is this eeery movement going on in church's today that deems gospel tracts to be worthless or no longer functioning?

Well that's good news, but I'd bet solid cash that there were significant inroads into those persons lives before the track got there. Of every track pusher I've ever seen, the message is clear "Take this paper and GO AWAY". I've been approached by dozens of them.
"Here take this, Jesus loves you".
"I know, and I'm thankfull for him"
"Take this so you can know him"
"I allready know him"
"TAKE THIS TRACK"

See, they practically never care about who I am and where I'm at. The primary focus is the track and "whatever happens after I take it". Impersonal and ineffective.

You are forgetting one ALL-IMPORTANT fact. NOBODY SAVES anybody else. The SPIRIT draws people to a SAVIOR who loves them and convict them of sin. FRIENDS don't do this and neither does Jack Chick, Moody, Spurgeon, and anybody else.

I'm not forgetting that fact at all. In fact, in all my dialog in this thread you'll be hard pressed to find anything I say comes even remotely close to "people save people". I said "MINISTER" to and being where the action is. People like Moody were always where the action was, and always ministering to people. Their presence had direct, measurable, palpable impact on lives that everyone could appreciate... especially those being ministered to. Throwing a track into someone's hands and walking away is not even close to that kind of courage.

A piece of advice- quit dogging tracts. Do you realize how many people we CAN'T talk to that CAN read a tract in their free time. A bad impression sometimes simply CANNOT be avoided. After all, the gospel is how that Christ DIED (negative) for SINNERS (very negative). It turns off people. Don't use Chick as a crutch for blaming the gospel for being too impersonal. Tracts do indeed speak to hearts, but as with anything else, that heart has to be ready to hear. Tracts have been used for many centuries. Now is NOT the time to dismiss them. Personal evangelism is great and I in no way disagree with it, but don't abandon tracts because you may not SEE the results. God is a SPIRIT and someday we will know what all he HAS done with even the simple things, like tracts.

You think I'm using Chick as a crutch for the "gospel being too impersonal"? Go blow hot air up someone else's skirt. I don't need to discredit Chick any more than the man discredits himself. Having suffered both physical violence and social disdain for the sake of the gospel, I need no "crutch". I know exactly how offensive it can be to the sinner, and more importantly I know why. As for tracks, if I'm going to offend, I'd rather offend with the gospel, rather then offend them with how little I know or care about their lives when I shove a piece of paper into their hands then walk away with a clear conscience.

Nobody is saying that. Get off your soap box and realize that ALL these different forms of evangelism have their part.

There are all kinds of people saying that. There are people here using tracks and/or three word signs to the exclusion of actually interacting with people. A "Holiness or Hell" sign isn't evangelism. Its "something". But it ain't evangelism.