Trump of God, Voice of the Archangel

[FinalTrump]

How do we interpret these scriptures:
1) What is the Trump of God? Can we hear it? Could we hear the 6 other trumpets in Revelation?
2) what does the "voice of the Archangel" mean? Who is the archangel?

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets
.

Rev 11:15 And theseventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms

of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

[markedward]

1 Corinthians 15 explicitly connects the Second Coming of Christ to the defeat of Death. Revelation 20 depicts this as happening after the "thousand years". Revelation 11 describes the beginning of Christ's eternal Kingdom upon the world. Revelation 20 depicts this as beginning before the "thousand years". Hence, "the last trumpet" happens after the thousand years, but "the seventh trumpet" happens before the thousand years. There is nothing that necessitates the connection of "the last trumpet" of Paul's letters with "the seventh trumpet" of the Revelation.

[vinsight4u8]

55: O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56: The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57: But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory

First - only death will be defeated for believers - at the coming of the Lord Jesus.

1 Cor. 15 shows it is us that has the victory.

[vinsight4u8]

54: So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


death - swallowed up in victory\\ is only for those that put on immortality

mortal - becomes immortal
- then -brought to pass - death is swallowed up in victory


still 1 Cor. 15

[FinalTrump]

1) What is the Trump of God? Can we hear it? Could we hear the 6 other trumpets in Revelation?
2) what does the "voice of the Archangel" mean? Who is the archangel?

[Firstfruits]

1 Corinthians 15 explicitly connects the Second Coming of Christ to the defeat of Death. Revelation 20 depicts this as happening after the "thousand years". Revelation 11 describes the beginning of Christ's eternal Kingdom upon the world. Revelation 20 depicts this as beginning before the "thousand years". Hence, "the last trumpet" happens after the thousand years, but "the seventh trumpet" happens before the thousand years. There is nothing that necessitates the connection of "the last trumpet" of Paul's letters with "the seventh trumpet" of the Revelation.

If those that reign with Jesus during the millenium are in heaven before the seven trumpets even start, then the last trumpet is also the seventh trumpet, as that would be when the rest of the dead are raised.

Firstfruits

[divaD]

1) What is the Trump of God? Can we hear it? Could we hear the 6 other trumpets in Revelation?
2) what does the "voice of the Archangel" mean? Who is the archangel?

I think I sense at what you're getting at here. So let me illustrate how 2 opposing positions might reason things.

The pre tribber asks, "can the prev 6 trumpets be heard that are recorded in Revelation"? The post tribber, responds, "I have no idea, but probably not". The pre tribber then responds with, "How can they hear the 7th trumpet then? Isn't the 7th trumpet supposed to be the last trump that Paul spoke of? Won't the last trump be heard by those that rise?"

The post tribber ponders for a moment, then responds by asking the following. "If the last trump is not the 7th trumpet, and if the dead is supposed to hear the last trump, then what about all the trumps before the last trump? Did they hear any of them too?"

My point is, you can't have a last trump, without there first being a prev trump or trumps. So if it seems illogical that no one would hear the 6 trumpets prior to the 7th one, then that's no more illogical that not hearing the trump or trumps that precede the last trump. If the last trump that Paul spoke of can be heard by the dead, then so can the 7th trumpet, because they are both one and the same. Neither requires that one must hear any prev trumpets. The idea is to wake the dead. Why would the dead be bothered with other trumpet sounds prior to their awakening?

[T W Taylor]

Hello Final Trump,

How do we interpret these scriptures:
1) What is the Trump of God? Can we hear it? Could we hear the 6 other trumpets in Revelation?

The Trumpet was, (is) to be blown on the feast of trumpets and on the year of the Jubilee. The last trump is talking about the last Jubilee.

(The feast of Trumpets) - Le 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a Sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

(The year of the Jubilee) - Le 25:8 And thou shalt number seven Sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven Sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years.

Le 25:9 Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubilee to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.

Le 25:10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubilee unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.

2) what does the "voice of the Archangel" mean? Who is the archangel?

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets

.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms
of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Da 12:11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Da 12:12 "Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

The Hebrew word for days also means years. The last Trump is only 45 years, instead of 49 years.

Mr 13:20 "And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days. TWTaylor

[ross3421]

[QUOTE]

1) What is the Trump of God? Can we hear it? Could we hear the 6 other trumpets in Revelation?

I believe the trumpet sounds an alarm. I would say that yes those on the earth will hear this last trump, a battle cry so to speak.

Joe 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

2) what does the "voice of the Archangel" mean? Who is the archangel?

The same voice which raises the dead.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

[FinalTrump]

[QUOTE=ross3421;2321727]

The same voice which raises the dead.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

I will requote the scripture with the verse before

Joh 5:27-28 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

We see that the voice is the Voice of Jesus, why does Thessalonians call it the voice of the archangel?

[FinalTrump]

Thanks everyone for your comments.

I didn’t expect a lot of the answers I got, and don’t understand all of them.

No one has answered the “Voice of the Archangel” who it is or what it means. Ross touched on it, but didn’t go into it.

I will give my thoughts on the trumpets.


I believe there are 7 trumpets described in Revelation. And as stated on other threads, I believe the churches described relate to the seven stages of the Church during the Gospel age. (also see 7 circuits around Jericho, 7 months journey of the Ark of the Covenant). Each church (each stage) there is a trumpet blast, in other words a message, each church has a messenger (angel) and each church has a message (trumpet).

The only ones that heard the trumpet are those who belong to the Lord. The trumpet is not audible to the world.

So when we get to the 7th, which corresponds to the last stage of the Church (Laodicea—which certainly describes the condition Christianity is in today—we have everything given to us—Bibles, Concordances, Lexicons, commentaries—and yet we are blind and miserable and poor)

This trumpet announces the 2nd Coming, the resurrection of the sleeping saints and the fact that those who now die are changed instantaneously from human nature to spirit when they die.

The 7th stage of the church is the last one, and in the description of that stage, Jesus says he is standing at the door.

So my point is that though the verse seems to say there will be great commotion when he comes, if we look at it with other (and there are more), he doesn’t come with a great commotion but like a thief and only those looking and watching will see and hear the coming and trumpet.

[FinalTrump]

TwTaylor,

I don’t know if I caught all of what you were saying.

I do believe that the Jubilees do come into the picture antitypically. This is a numbers thing, which really isn’t my specialty.

Jubilees started counting when they entered the land, if you add everything up, division of the land, period of the judges and kings, captivity and up till you get to 2500 years (which would be a grand jubilee) you come up with 1874 (which is also 6 thousand years from the creation of Adam)

Jubilee as you quoted starts in the 7th month, which is really the end of the ecclesiastical calendar. (as far as I remember)

Jubilee is the type of “restitution” aka, the Kingdom

Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive (retain) until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

So this is another proof that we are in the last days, and the Christ is to come.

[ross3421]

[QUOTE=FinalTrump;2321956]

We see that the voice is the Voice of Jesus, why does Thessalonians call it the voice of the archangel?

As I have said in other threads, I see the 7 spirits which we see are part of the Lamb and are the Lamb when sent forth being messengers. The 7 seven angels represent these 7 spirits which are heads of the 7 churches (candelsticks). These 7 spirits are not created after the word but part of the Lamb whom was firstborn.

So then can the archangel be one of the 7 spirits? Yes. The 7 spirtis are as the Lamb and the Lamb is God.

Note, also that the dragon has the opposing 7 heads............which one was wounded unto death and so on.

[ross3421]

So my point is that though the verse seems to say there will be great commotion when he comes, if we look at it with other (and there are more), he doesn’t come with a great commotion but like a thief and only those looking and watching will see and hear the coming and trumpet.

Yes Christ will return as a thief in the night, a literal night time whereby he will come in a blaze of glory. He as a thief will come in the night time however once he comes there will be great commotion.

[My heart's Desire]

Perhaps this would be of interest to this thread somehow. In Exodus 19:13 we have this:
There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through, whether it be beast of man it shall not live when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.

Exodus 19:16
And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceedingly loud so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.

Exodus 19:19 And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder Moses spake , and God answered him by a voice.

Exodus 20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw, it they removed afar off.

Exodus 20:22 And the Lord said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked to you from heaven.

I did not see anywhere in these passages where the people, a priest or anyone else was told to blow this trumpet that is referred to. It came from the Lord and seems to be related to His voice or presence.

In Hebrews 12:19 We have: And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words, which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:

And Rev. 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet Saying, I am Alpha and Omega,....
Rev. 4:1 After this I looked, and behold, a door was opened in heaven. and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I wil.....

So, I put forth the sound of the trumpet is no less than the voice of God. 1Thess. 4:16 Although I'd like to add to that that as I've read through the scriptures it is impressed upon one that except for a couple of places, for ex. the still small voice, God's voice is usually or almost always associated with thunder as well as with lightning.