Partial preterist interpretation of the Revelation, by chapter

[Firstfruits]

I agree, it did not return to the Second Coming of Christ. But as I explained in the OP, under the summary of chapter one, the partial preterism position is that the "coming of the Son of Man" (including the one in Matthew 24.30) is not referring to the Second Coming, it is referring to the "judgment coming" of 70 AD.

With regareds to the following do the kingdoms of this world now belong to Jesus? If so why then is it still full of abominations?

Chapter 8: John sees the seventh seal broken open. The New Covenant has been fully established, and God's wrath upon apostate Old Covenant Israel is fully poured out. John's visions start over, to show him the event leading up to the Jewish-Roman War from another perspective, via seven trumpets. The first four trumpets are blown, depicting the destruction that took place in Judea through plagues, famines, false teachings, etc.

Chapter 9: John sees the fifth trumpet blown. The pagan Romans, symbolized as locusts, invade Judea. They torment the Christ-rejecting Jews for five months (May-September 66 AD), inciting them to rebel against the Roman Empire. John sees the sixth trumpet blown. Roman armies stationed at the Euphrates River in Syria march on to Judea, straight to Jerusalem (Late 66 AD) where they kill numerous Christ-rejecting Jews.

Chapter 10: John has a vision of an angel. The angel symbolically depicts the uniting of the Jews (the Land) and the Gentiles (the Sea), and declares the "mystery of God" to be almost complete. [Romans 11.25; Ephesians 3.4-6; Colossians 1.27] He gives John a "little scroll" to eat and prophesy, a symbolic representation of John being given the Revelation itself.

Chapter 11: John is told to measure the Temple of God, which is the Body of Christ, the Church. [John 2.19-21; 1 Corinthians 3.16; Ephesians 2.19-22] The "outer court" of the temple and the city of Jerusalem (symbolic representations of apostate Israel) are left to the Gentiles (the Romans) to trample upon for 42 months. (February 67 - August 70 AD) John sees two witnesses (symbolic representations of the entire Church) persecuted by "the beast" (Rome) and "the great city" Jerusalem (apostate Israel). They are depicted as being "conquered" by Rome, but are resurrected and taken to heaven, a depiction of the Church's victory in Christ. "The great city" Jerusalem is destroyed. The seventh trumpet is blown, and the Kingdom of God comes upon the world, and apostate Israel is destroyed, vindicating the righteous dead.

Chapter 16: The seven plagues (summarizing the events of the Jewish-Roman War: 67-70 AD) are poured out, intentionally alluding to the ten plagues of Egypt. [Deuteronomy 28.27,60] Satan, the Roman Empire, and apostate Israel incite each other into war at "Armageddon". The word literally means "Mountain of Megiddo". This location does not literally exist, but is a symbolic representation of the Church's salvation (the symbol of the "mountain") being founded upon the destruction of God's enemies (symbolized by Megiddo, which has a history of God's enemies being destroyed there). [Luke 21.20,28,31] Jerusalem "the great city" is "split into three parts", corresponding to the three factions of Zealots that took over the city in 67 AD, ultimately being the reason why the city was conquered by the Romans in 70 AD.

If all this happend in the first century then we today have nothing to look forward to as This earth already belongs to Jesus, so where then does he dwell?

Firstfruits

[RogerW]

I do. I believe Paul was referring to the soon-coming "binding" of Satan.

Mark

I believe Paul is very much aware that the binding of Satan occured at the cross and resurrection of Christ. Do pp believe that Satan was not bound until AD 70?

I do. God avenging his first-century elect took place in 67-70 AD.

"Bruise" means to crush completely; shatter. Avenge means to vindicate, pay retribution for His elect. I thought the pp believed that Christ's coming in judgment in 67-70 AD was against the nation, not to vindicate the elect or to completely crush Satan?

Many Blessings,
RW

[markedward]

I believe Paul is very much aware that the binding of Satan occured at the cross and resurrection of Christ. Do pp believe that Satan was not bound until AD 70?

For preterists, it is generally a toss-up between 30 AD and 70 AD. I consider either of them to be acceptable, but I lean toward the 70 AD opinion, in consideration of verses such as Romans 16.20.

"Bruise" means to crush completely; shatter. Avenge means to vindicate, pay retribution for His elect. I thought the pp believed that Christ's coming in judgment in 67-70 AD was against the nation, not to vindicate the elect or to completely crush Satan?

The Greek word used in Romans 16.20 comes from the root words meaning "with" and "to rub". The most literal meaning of the Greek word is "to rub down" or "to wear down", as in "to tread"... not "to shatter". In other words, Paul was stating that Satan would be "tread upon" by Christ in the first-century Roman Christians' near-future. This, I believe, is analogous to the "binding" of Satan in Revelation 20.

The vindication of the saints came by the punishment of the wicked; i.e. the wicked were destroyed by Christ's judgment while the Church endured through the tribulation, proving that the saints were right to place their faith in Christ. That is, by definition, vindication.

[markedward]

With regareds to the following do the kingdoms of this world now belong to Jesus? If so why then is it still full of abominations?

The world belongs to Christ's Kingdom. As such, his Word is still going out conquering and to conquer, until all of his enemies are set under his feet.

If all this happend in the first century then we today have nothing to look forward to as This earth already belongs to Jesus,

You're making another assumption, rather than asking. This is the reason this thread was created to begin with. "I see numerous false assumptions and misunderstandings made about partial preterism". That is what I said in the OP. You're assuming that partial preterism leaves "nothing to look forward to". Don't assume. Ask.

The world belongs to Christ's Kingdom. As such, his Word is still going out conquering and to conquer, until all of his enemies are set under his feet. We, as Christ's messengers upon the earth, must continue spreading the Word. At some point in the future, Satan will be un-bound, and incite the world to try to destroy "the holy city", which is the Church. At that time will be the Second Coming of Christ, at which point Christ will resurrect the dead, condemn the wicked (including Satan), and give immortality to the righteous, bringing perfection to the world. That is not even close to "nothing to look forward to" as you claim.

Please see this post for additional information on the subject.

so where then does he dwell?

Revelation 21.3: And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God."

Christ is in heaven, yet God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) dwells within us. According to the apostles, this promise was already made into a reality.

Romans 8.9-11: You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

1 Corinthians 3.16: Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?

2 Corinthians 6.16: What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."

[John146]

For preterists, it is generally a toss-up between 30 AD and 70 AD. I consider either of them to be acceptable, but I lean toward the 70 AD opinion, in consideration of verses such as Romans 16.20.

The Greek word used in Romans 16.20 comes from the root words meaning "with" and "to rub". The most literal meaning of the Greek word is "to rub down" or "to wear down", as in "to tread"... not "to shatter". In other words, Paul was stating that Satan would be "tread upon" by Christ in the first-century Roman Christians' near-future. This, I believe, is analogous to the "binding" of Satan in Revelation 20.

The vindication of the saints came by the punishment of the wicked; i.e. the wicked were destroyed by Christ's judgment while the Church endured through the tribulation, proving that the saints were right to place their faith in Christ. That is, by definition, vindication.

With this explanation, I can now understand why you and others see Satan's binding as having occurred in 70 AD. I couldn't figure out why that was before because I thought it was clear that he was bound by Christ on the cross. I base that on passages like these:

Heb 2
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Eph 2
11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

I list the Ephesians 2 passage with the assumption that they were "without God in the world" largely because of Satan having deceived them and kept them from seeing the truth of God's word. That was all changed "by the blood of Christ".

So, I still believe that Satan was bound at the cross, but I can at least see now why you believe what you do regarding that.

[JohnH]

"soon"
"near"
"at hand."

Psalm 37:10
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

Does this mean the wicked have been extinguished since the lifetime of the Psalmist?

[RogerW]

For preterists, it is generally a toss-up between 30 AD and 70 AD. I consider either of them to be acceptable, but I lean toward the 70 AD opinion, in consideration of verses such as Romans 16.20.

The Greek word used in Romans 16.20 comes from the root words meaning "with" and "to rub". The most literal meaning of the Greek word is "to rub down" or "to wear down", as in "to tread"... not "to shatter". In other words, Paul was stating that Satan would be "tread upon" by Christ in the first-century Roman Christians' near-future. This, I believe, is analogous to the "binding" of Satan in Revelation 20.

Since "shall bruise" was translated from suntribowhich means - to crush completely, i.e. to shatter (literally or figuratively):--break (in pieces), broken to shivers (+ -hearted), bruise...and comes from the root words meaning "with" and "to wear down" would it not be more appropriate to translate "shall bruise" as refrence to the final, eschatological victory of God over Satan, a complete crushing that will take place in connection with Christ's return? Not that Satan was not already defeated at the cross and resurrection, but that he is not completely crushed until the end of time.

2Th*2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th*2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th*2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th*2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th*2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Many Blessings,
RW

[RogerW]

With this explanation, I can now understand why you and others see Satan's binding as having occurred in 70 AD. I couldn't figure out why that was before because I thought it was clear that he was bound by Christ on the cross. I base that on passages like these:

Heb 2
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Eph 2
11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

I list the Ephesians 2 passage with the assumption that they were "without God in the world" largely because of Satan having deceived them and kept them from seeing the truth of God's word. That was all changed "by the blood of Christ".

So, I still believe that Satan was bound at the cross, but I can at least see now why you believe what you do regarding that.

This is a good point Eric. If the blood and resurrection of Christ from the grave did not bind Satan, how does Christ coming in judgment against Israel in AD 70 cause him to be bound?

Many Blessings,
RW

[markedward]

Psalm 37:10
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

Does this mean the wicked have been extinguished since the lifetime of the Psalmist?

You're assuming that partial preterists believe that 70 AD was the only time in which "the wicked" are punished. Various eras in the past had times of divine punishment. In 722 BC, God punished "the wicked". And again in 586 BC. And again in 567 BC. And again in 539 BC. And again in 336 BC. And many times before all of these, and many times after all of these. Each of these times of divine punishment was called the "Day of the LORD". Partial preterists believe that the Revelation was almost entirely concerned with God's divine punishment against "the wicked" in 70 AD, yet one more "Day of the LORD" (called the "Great Day of God Almighty" in Revelation 16.14). The only major difference is that this specific "Day of the LORD" brought a permanent end to the Old Covenant era of history, making way for the era of the Gospel of Christ.

By the way... the author of Hebrews explicitly quotes Psalm 37.10 and reapplied it to his own day... just before 70 AD:

Hebrews 10.24-27: And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the day drawing near. For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.

Hebrews 10.37-39: For, "Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay; but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him." But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

[forum lurker]

It is directed at the wicked.

How would it help the wicked if they haven't turned to Jesus first?

The "coming like a thief" analogy is never used to refer to the preservation of the Church, but instead it refers to the destruction of the wicked.

Maybe not directly, but in 1 Thess. 5 and 2 Peter 3 where the phrase is used, also the preservation of the church is mentioned.

Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!
Yes, this is the warning Christ gives to the church of Laodicea. Meaning... if they don't "wake up", they will be caught up in the "sudden destruction" of Christ's "coming like a thief". Revelation 16.15 is Christ's last minute admonition to the Church, just before the "judgment coming" of 70 AD. "I am coming like a thief! Wake up!" he implores the Church, "If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you."

I agree, but I don't see why this wouldn't also apply to Rev. 16:15.

[Firstfruits]

The world belongs to Christ's Kingdom. As such, his Word is still going out conquering and to conquer, until all of his enemies are set under his feet.

You're making another assumption, rather than asking. This is the reason this thread was created to begin with. "I see numerous false assumptions and misunderstandings made about partial preterism". That is what I said in the OP. You're assuming that partial preterism leaves "nothing to look forward to". Don't assume. Ask.

The world belongs to Christ's Kingdom. As such, his Word is still going out conquering and to conquer, until all of his enemies are set under his feet. We, as Christ's messengers upon the earth, must continue spreading the Word. At some point in the future, Satan will be un-bound, and incite the world to try to destroy "the holy city", which is the Church. At that time will be the Second Coming of Christ, at which point Christ will resurrect the dead, condemn the wicked (including Satan), and give immortality to the righteous, bringing perfection to the world. That is not even close to "nothing to look forward to" as you claim.

Please see this post for additional information on the subject.

Revelation 21.3: And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God."

Christ is in heaven, yet God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) dwells within us. According to the apostles, this promise was already made into a reality.

Romans 8.9-11: You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

1 Corinthians 3.16: Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?

2 Corinthians 6.16: What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."

Why would Jesus be going out to conquere that which is already his, as it does not say "will become" but "have become".

Firstfruits

[ClayInHisHands]

Chapter 13: Satan gives his power to the Roman Empire and its Emperors (depicted as a sea-beast with seven heads). John gives a prophecy about the Empire's death and subsequent resurrection that took place following Nero's suicide. (68-69 AD) John describes the present persecution of the Christians by the Roman Empire, prophesying that it would last for 42 months. (November 64 - June 68 AD) John sees apostate Israel (depicted as an earth-beast disguised as a lamb) ally itself with the Roman Empire in this persecution. Apostate Israel's false prophets perform false miracles in order to deceive people into rejecting Christ and following Caesar. (30-67 AD) The "mark of the beast" is Hebrew gematria that codifies the name of Nero Caesar into the number 666. The name is not believed to have been codified because John was afraid of persecution (he was already being persecuted), but because of the symbolism behind the number 666. The "mark" is not a literal tattoo, but refers to how apostate Israel required its opponents to submit to the Roman Emperors or face persecution. Anyone who took the mark was spared from the wrath of Rome and apostate Israel.

Would you please explain more in detail your interpretation of Chapter 13. What leads you to believe that your paraphrasing above is CONCRETE. How exactly did people take the MARK if it wasn't a literal mark? What do you mean by anyone who took the mark was spared from apostate Israel?


Help me understand what it is you believe?

Jesus died - He rose - He Ascended - Apostles and Christians were martyred persecuted - AD 70 Jerusalem was destroyed(Nero was the Beast...everyone who bowed to the Roman empire and rejected Christ were spared - we are now in the "symbolic" 1,000 yrs awaiting the return of Jesus where He will defeat death forever, and God will Judge everyone.

Are you suggesting that God will completely destroy Israel even though He made a covenant with them. What exactly are you meaning by divorcing them? I read what you wrote....I just am not understanding....

I hope I am making sense.


In Christ's Love

[Partaker of Christ]

This is a good point Eric. If the blood and resurrection of Christ from the grave did not bind Satan, how does Christ coming in judgment against Israel in AD 70 cause him to be bound?

Many Blessings,
RW

Hi RogerW!

I think that we only have this victory in Christ.

For those that are not 'in Christ', life goes on as it were before Christ.

[markedward]

How would it help the wicked if they haven't turned to Jesus first?

Who said the phrase "I am coming like a thief" was meant to help the wicked? It's simply an analogy used in Scripture to refer to the suddenness of the "coming of the Son of Man" in 70 AD.

I agree, but I don't see why this wouldn't also apply to Rev. 16:15.

I didn't say it didn't. I simply said the target audience of the saying "I am coming like a thief" was not strictly the Church, but the wicked (pretenders in the Church, and sinners outside of the Church).

Why would Jesus be going out to conquere that which is already his, as it does not say "will become" but "have become".

He still has enemies within the domain of his Kingdom, of course. The world is his Kingdom. That doesn't inherently mean all of the subjects within the Kingdom acknowledge his right to rule. Which is why the Gospel must continue to overcome those who rebel against Christ.

[markedward]

Would you please explain more in detail your interpretation of Chapter 13. What leads you to believe that your paraphrasing above is CONCRETE. How exactly did people take the MARK if it wasn't a literal mark?

In Hebrew culture, both the head and the hand contained their own symbolism. For example:

Exodus 28.36-38: "You shall make a plate of pure gold and engrave on it, like the engraving of a signet, 'Holy to the LORD.' And you shall fasten it on the turban by a cord of blue. It shall be on the front of the turban. It shall be on Aaron's forehead, and Aaron shall bear any guilt from the holy things that the people of Israel consecrate as their holy gifts. It shall regularly be on his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD."

The Levite priests who served in the tabernacle (and temples) were required to wear an inscription on their foreheads, stating "Holy to YHWH". This action of wearing the name of God on one's forehead was symbolic of swearing one's allegiance to God. This action was literally carried out (Exodus was not a book of prophetic symbols), but it was the meaning behind the action that was important. By taking "the mark", which is the name of the beast, it meant swearing one's allegiance to the beast.

Deuteronomy 6.6-8: "And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes."

Here, God commanded the Covenant people to bind his Law "on your hand" and "between your eyes". Was this command carried out in a literal fashion? Yes, it was. (Again, Deuteronomy was not a book of prophetic symbols.) But the meaning behind the command is clear. Keep the Law in deed (the hand) and thought (the forehead); in no way should a person turn aside from God if they always have his Law in their hand and on their forehead. Regarding the beast, by taking his "mark" upon one's hand and/or forehead, they were pledging to submit to the beast's authority, in deed (the hand) and thought (the forehead).

Ezekiel 9.4-6: And the LORD said to him, "Pass through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations that are committed in it." And to the others he said in my hearing, "Pass through the city after him, and strike. Your eye shall not spare, and you shall show no pity. Kill old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women, but touch no one on whom is the mark. And begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were before the house.

The prophet Ezekiel hears God tell an angel to "put a mark on the foreheads" of the residents of Jerusalem who remained faithful to God. In consequence, Ezekiel sees that anyone who did not bear the mark of God was killed. The action in Ezekiel's vision is wholly symbolic. No one in Jerusalem literally received a mark on their foreheads to show that they were faithful to God. When the Babylonians came to destroy Jerusalem in 586 BC (for that is what Ezekiel is writing about here), the warriors didn't stop to check the foreheads of each and every person they came across. What Ezekiel is seeing is a symbolic representation of God extending (supernatural) protection to the faithful remnant in the city. John sees a similar thing happen in Revelation 7 to the 144,000 "sons of Israel". And here in Revelation 13, the beast employs a dark parody of God's seal. In Ezekiel 9, those who received "the mark" of God were spared from his wrath. In contrast, those who receive "the mark of the beast" are spared from his wrath.

All in all, taking "the mark of the beast" is the action of submitting to the Roman Emperor. The first beast (Rome) required it, and the second beast (apostate Israel) enforced it. Anyone who refused to "take the mark" (submit to Caesar) was persecuted and killed. [John 19.12-15; Acts 4.24-28; 12.1-3; 13.8; 14.5; 17.5-8; 18.12-13; 21.11; 24.1-9; 25.2-3,9,24]

What do you mean by anyone who took the mark was spared from apostate Israel?

Spare from the wrath of the Roman Empire and apostate Israel.

Help me understand what it is you believe?

In 30 AD, Jesus preached, died, and resurrected. He ascended to heaven, taking the role of High Priest, to present the New Covenant sacrifice (himself) before God. Upon his arrival in heaven (depicted in Revelation 5) he took the scroll of the New Covenant, his personal will, to open it. Each of the seven seals of the scroll corresponds to the overarching events of history between 30-70 AD. During this time, the Apostles were laying the foundation of the Church and the Kingdom of God, all the while being resisted and persecuted by apostate Israel. In 64-68 AD, the Roman Empire began an official, open persecution of the Church, and apostate Israel took advantage of this. It was during this 3.5 year persecution that many of the Apostles are believed to have been killed. This 3.5 year persecution of the Church is the 42 month persecution referred to in Revelation 13. However, in 66 AD, tensions between the Roman Empire and apostate Israel began to escalate. At the beginning of 67 AD, lasting 3.5 years until the middle of 70 AD, the Roman Empire officially declared war upon the nation of Judea (the homeland of apostate Israel), which culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem and the Second Temple exactly as Christ prophesied in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21). With that, the "thousand years" began, a symbol of the Kingdom of God while it endures over the sinful world. Satan is "bound" in order to prevent him from inciting the sinful population of the world to destroy the Church. When the "thousand years" come to completion (for the number 1000 is used in Scripture as a symbol for "completion"), Satan will be released to bring about the ultimate war upon the Church, but the Second Coming of Christ will take place. Satan will be condemned; the dead will be resurrected; the wicked will be condemned; the righteous will inherit immortality and be transformed; and God will bring perfection to the world.