Know God vs. Know about God - the "isms" problem

[Slug1]

Ok - here I go... about to get in hot water in all likelihood.

One of the reasons Christians today have such a difficult time discussing being led by the Spirit is the teachings regarding the gifts of the Spirit that have been prevalent over the past century.

You can ask most Christians what they believe other Christians mean when they speak of gifts of the Spirit. The answer, at least 95% of the time is - tongues. It doesn't matter whether the person is an advocate of tongues or an ardent opponent of tongues - tongues is almost ALWAYS the focus. Yet, we are told tongues is the least of all the gifts.

In my opinion (so yes, I could be wrong) we should be far more concerned about bearing the fruit of the Spirit through His guidance than we are about what gifts we have.

I'll join you in the hot water jacuzee since it seems I've been in hot water ever since Jesus has given me the testimony of His work in my life.

Your last sentence... amen! So many do work for God and it's what they want to do, or what their church wants them to do and not what the Holy Spirit is trying to guide them to do... so what are they really producing? As man high-fives them and says they're a blessing to the church, God is saying... ummmm, I'm trying to tell you I want you to do this, will you stop and listen to Me? What I want you to do produces the Glory I want to generate through you!

[Vhayes]

Thanks, Slug -

I know people who pray in tongues. But the only way I know is because I asked. They don't go around telling people they are more spiritual than others because they speak/pray in tongues. As a matter of fact, they don't brag about what they do at all - they just quietly go about doing what they are led to do. their lives are a constant and steady witness to the Spirit.

On the other hand, I have had people flat out tell me that I might be saved but I cannot possibly be Spirit filled because I don't speak in tongues. And then I watch them and listen to them as they literally babble in a completely unintelligible manner and say how edifying that was. How? NO ONE knows what was said - so how is that edifying?

And I'm not even gonna touch the rolling around on the floor and barking like animals.

Tongues were/are a sign to unbelievers, not a tool to beat the living daylights outta brothers and sisters.

V

[Slug1]

Thanks, Slug -

I know people who pray in tongues. But the only way I know is because I asked. They don't go around telling people they are more spiritual than others because they speak/pray in tongues. As a matter of fact, they don't brag about what they do at all - they just quietly go about doing what they are led to do. their lives are a constant and steady witness to the Spirit.

On the other hand, I have had people flat out tell me that I might be saved but I cannot possibly be Spirit filled because I don't speak in tongues. And then I watch them and listen to them as they literally babble in a completely unintelligible manner and say how edifying that was. How? NO ONE knows what was said - so how is that edifying?

And I'm not even gonna touch the rolling around on the floor and barking like animals.

Tongues were/are a sign to unbelievers, not a tool to beat the living daylights outta brothers and sisters.

V

Amen Sister... as for the edifying, the Bible informs us that for another to be edified by tongues then others will be gifted with the interpretation. If a person is showing off, then they are just showing off and no wonder "they" are edified because they are satisfying their flesh. This is why Paul was led to give us all the proper order as we read in the Bible.

I'm not gonna touch the antics either

[theBelovedDisciple]

I agree. I think false conversions abound when we do not have a biblical concept of who God is, and who man is in comparison.
Correct biblical theology is important.

In Christ,
Jen

I don't want to derail this thread but..

I agree with Jen..


one has to go back to the teaching of the 2 sowers by the Master Himself......

to understand that 'false conversions' DO abound today....

its the placing of the 'tares' , the 'weeds'....

Genuine Conversions are Happening Today..

and Right beside them are 'false coversions'....

Does God know and see the false ones? oh yes...

He'll never be outdone though........ no matter how many 'tares' are out there.. because He Always Saves a Remnant UNto His Name.. and this Remnant is Greater than all the false doctrine, false teacing, false conversions that are Happening.. because the Eternal One Truly and Genuinely Indwells these... they may not look like it in 'numbers'... but they are Greater.. because He is Greater... and their Salvation is Birthed and Origianted in Heaven Itself... under the Will and Foreknowledge of God Himself.. not men in Religion.... these....... they are not defined by sects, divisions, 'ism' names... they 'know' who they are In Christ Himself...these His Elect.. Predestined and Chosen in Him before the Foundation of the World..

[tango]

Ok - here I go... about to get in hot water in all likelihood.

One of the reasons Christians today have such a difficult time discussing being led by the Spirit is the teachings regarding the gifts of the Spirit that have been prevalent over the past century.

You can ask most Christians what they believe other Christians mean when they speak of gifts of the Spirit. The answer, at least 95% of the time is - tongues. It doesn't matter whether the person is an advocate of tongues or an ardent opponent of tongues - tongues is almost ALWAYS the focus. Yet, we are told tongues is the least of all the gifts.

In my opinion (so yes, I could be wrong) we should be far more concerned about bearing the fruit of the Spirit through His guidance than we are about what gifts we have.

Very true, it is unfortunate the way tongues get the attention and the other gifts get sidelined and the fruit even more sidelined. Jesus never said "By their tongues shall ye know them".

[BroRog]

Brorog, you ever read how the Lord used Ananias to go to a specific street, a specific house, and do a specific task?

Of course. But you are loosing focus. The topic is all about knowing the Lord. I have no doubt that the Holy Spirit directs people to do certain things and as you already know, I am not a cessationist. I believe the Holy Spirit still works today. So let's remain focused on your topic.

Let's read the scripture and show you how your spinning of my $5 to a lady wearing a red jacket is nothing but spin and not addressing the truth of the leading of the Holy Spirit...

I would rather not. I don't trust you and I don't believe you. You have lost all credibility in my mind after what you said in this thread. You can claim that your $5 to a lady wearing a red jacket is like Acts 9 all you want. I believe Luke's account in Acts. I don't believe your account of what happened. Simple as that.

Why would you disregard this and say any "mature" person would simply see the women needed $5 when that wasn't any part of the example given to you?

I disregard it because it isn't credible. Do you think I should accept the testimony of someone I don't trust? And do you think I should trust someone who blows off the scriptures the way you did in this thread?

[Slug1]

Of course. But you are loosing focus. The topic is all about knowing the Lord. I have no doubt that the Holy Spirit directs people to do certain things and as you already know, I am not a cessationist. I believe the Holy Spirit still works today. So let's remain focused on your topic.

This is the example of "knowing God" vs. knowing about God... People know all they can about God yet the Holy Spirit has never empowered them?

I would rather not. I don't trust you and I don't believe you. You have lost all credibility in my mind after what you said in this thread. You can claim that your $5 to a lady wearing a red jacket is like Acts 9 all you want. I believe Luke's account in Acts. I don't believe your account of what happened. Simple as that.

I disregard it because it isn't credible. Do you think I should accept the testimony of someone I don't trust? And do you think I should trust someone who blows off the scriptures the way you did in this thread?

OK... God shows us in scripture exactly what the red jacket example and Bladers blue coat example is all about... by what we read in the Bible. God told a person to go to a specific street, to a specific house and do a specific task (Acts 9). Exactly as a person is told today to go to a specific store, find a specific person, and do a specific task or ride a bus, go to the back and witness to the man in a blue coat... now WHO here is not believing? Who here is blowing off scripture?

BTW, what scripture in this thread am I now blowing off and what scripture will you introduce to the thread that tells all who are reading this thread, that a Christian can't be led by the Holy Spirit just as Ananias was?

Also, my credibility with you matters not... I give testimony and/or discuss this thread based on the testimony Jesus has given me so if it's not credible... you can take that up with God because it's His testimony that He's given to me as He works in and through me.

[BroRog]

Exactly as a person is told today to go to a specific store, find a specific person, and do a specific task or ride a bus, go to the back and witness to the man in a blue coat... now WHO here is not believing?

You don't get it. I'm saying that I don't believe it actually happened.

Also, my credibility with you matters not... I give testimony and/or discuss this thread based on the testimony Jesus has given me so if it's not credible... you can take that up with God because it's His testimony that He's given to me as He works in and through me.

So you say.

[notuptome]

This is the example of "knowing God" vs. knowing about God... People know all they can about God yet the Holy Spirit has never empowered them?

This is a patently false premise. You cannot conclusively give evidence about what some one else knows or does not know. It is very presumptious to say this one is spiritual and this one is not based on your experiences. You have no idea, nor can you, know how God is working in the heart of another believer. You cannot know God apart from knowing His word under the instruction of the Holy Spirit. Christianity is not just winging it but is following her head who is Christ. You falsely claim what you believe to be supernatural acts to be a measure of spirituality.

OK... God shows us in scripture exactly what the red jacket example and Bladers blue coat example is all about... by what we read in the Bible. God told a person to go to a specific street, to a specific house and do a specific task (Acts 9). Exactly as a person is told today to go to a specific store, find a specific person, and do a specific task or ride a bus, go to the back and witness to the man in a blue coat... now WHO here is not believing? Who here is blowing off scripture?

The believer who wants to be true to what God has called him/her to do will not rely on gut feelings of whom they should address. The believer wishing to serve the Lord will have already been to the Lord asking Him to open doors of opportunity to share a gospel witness in the hopes that a soul may come to a saving knowledge of Him.

BTW, what scripture in this thread am I now blowing off and what scripture will you introduce to the thread that tells all who are reading this thread, that a Christian can't be led by the Holy Spirit just as Ananias was?

Many a missionary can lay claim to following Gods leading in going where He would have them to go. It is never a spur of the moment thing but one that calls for prayer and study of Gods word that the heart may be led and not left to shoose it's own path.

Also, my credibility with you matters not... I give testimony and/or discuss this thread based on the testimony Jesus has given me so if it's not credible... you can take that up with God because it's His testimony that He's given to me as He works in and through me.

You speak what is on your heart. As you grow in Christ, by study of His word, you will increase in knowledge and not be leaping to conclusions that are not as prudent as you might first assume. The one thing our adversary wishes to destroy now that he cannot destroy our soul is our testimony. Your testimony is important. Paul told the young preacher Timothy to study the word of God that he might be an approved workman and not to be ashamed. I could recount many stories of preachers that when they reflected back over their early ministries they were humbled by how many mistakes they made in their preaching. We can never place ourselves above reproof.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[Slug1]

You don't get it. I'm saying that I don't believe it actually happened.

So you say.

Dude, it was an EXAMPLE based on the scripture the Bible gives us with Ananias. Are you still saying God cannot tell a person today to go to a specific store, find the woman in the red jacket and give her $5?

Anyway if you still don't, what scripture will support you? While the scripture concerning the situation with Ananias does support this?

You're the one who got upset when I gave testimony of how the Lord told me to go 940+ miles to another city to pray for that city, how He revealed each day what He wanted me to do... how He even financed the entire mission because it was His will... I guess I do believe you really don't believe God will use servants today.

Also... which scripture am I blowing off? And again, which scripture supports you that the Holy Spirit doesn't lead us and that we don't do anything through the Holy Spirit?

[Slug1]

You speak what is on your heart.
Roger

Ya know I love ya dude but I only speak what God puts on my heart.

You talk about gut feelings as if the Lord doesn't speak to us and tell us what to do when He wants us to do His will? Are you saying this as well?

Believe me, I know reproof... you read about my Damascus Road encounter with God as He set me straight. All that denial which was going away over that full year of surrender and seeking to know God and stop knowing about God... He took all that denial away that night.

Growing... yes, but now in the Lord's will of growing, not limited by my way of growing through religion, rituals, isms, etc.... which is nothing but mans way. Now, only know God, through Jesus, as led by the Holy Spirit. Don't forget, Jesus is the Word... last time you went kinda bonkers when I didn't mention the Bible So yes, by His Word.

[notuptome]

Ya know I love ya dude but I only speak what God puts on my heart.

You need to be careful about the heart. Jer 17:9

You talk about gut feelings as if the Lord doesn't speak to us and tell us what to do when He wants us to do His will? Are you saying this as well?

It is a fine line to walk. It is quite easy to impose your will on Gods will.

Believe me, I know reproof... you read about my Damascus Road encounter with God as He set me straight. All that denial which was going away over that full year of surrender and seeking to know God and stop knowing about God... He took all that denial away that night.

The word of God is that which reproves the believer. Experience and feelings are unreliable in fact completely worthless compared to Gods word.

Growing... yes, but now in the Lord's will of growing, not limited by my way of growing through religion, rituals, isms, etc.... which is nothing but mans way. Now, only know God, through Jesus, as led by the Holy Spirit. Don't forget, Jesus is the Word... last time you went kinda bonkers when I didn't mention the Bible So yes, by His Word.

Peter said we are to grow by the sincere milk of the word of God. 1 Pet 2:2 Christians delight in the word of God. Psalms 1 vs 1-2 Blessed is the man who walketh not in the councel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the Lord and in His law doth he meditate day and night.

A man who sincerely desires to be blessed of God does well to meditate in the word of God day and night. No need to chase fleeting emotional feelings but to delve deeply into the wonderful truth that God has stored in His word for those who will seek Him. As was told by the two men in shining garments "why seek ye the living among the dead" Luke 24:5 to find what you are seeking you must look in the right place.

It does not matter how far you travel if you are on the wrong road you cannot reach your desired destination.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[Slug1]

My desire... and I will use that word you tossed at me and I had to look up... is to be obedient to what God want's me to aspire to. So if this means doing His will and allowing His empowerment to manifest, I will be an obedient vessel. Where it takes me, He knows and I'll find out as the Holy Spirit guides me.

[kay-gee]

I don't think you can just select a person and/or event from the Bible and use it as pattern for your own self. God chose persons in the past to perform unique specific tasks, which He empowered them to perform.

Moses parted the Red Sea. It was for a reason. I grew up on Lake Huron. I could stand there forever, holding a stick over it and the Lake wouldn't move an inch. Am I faithless? I mean if Moses could do that, why not me?

In the case of Annanias, the guy was chosen specifically to do a job for God. An important one. He had the task of ordaining the greatest Christian writer/preacher/spokesman the world has ever seen. Apostle Paul. It is not surprising that God told him where to go and what to do and say.

I don't believe you can just take that as an example for today. Where God speaks directly to you and says go into the Wal-mart, look for a guy with a Detroit Tigers cap and preach the gospel to him. Are you comparing yourself to Annanias? God is not writing the Bible any more. It is written.

You know something....Jesus said among men born to women there was not one so great as John the Baptist. He had a faith that would shame any of us and was selected by God, and you know what? Not a single solitary miracle was ever attributed to him.

all the best...

[Slug1]

I was told by God to drive 940+ miles to a city to pray for it and also attend various services and church events, one being a Youth Ministry service to learn from. The money was provided quite surprisingly and on top of this, I only had to purchase meals on the trip down, 3 during the trip, and all meals in return. All else was provided for. During this trip, each day God revealed what I was to do. I learned this when I prayed the first night there and I received nothing that I would consider guidance, specifics concerning this prayer I was to do etc. The next morning in prayer, the Lord revealed what I was to do that day, how I was to only be a participant during this prayer and another was to be the one who voiced the prayer.

Travel time plus the actual days in the city was 6 days. God led each day, guided all I (we) did, and provided as well.

So, here's another testimony... do with it what you will