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Thread: Know God vs. Know about God - the "isms" problem

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    Know God vs. Know about God - the "isms" problem

    I've been praying lately concerning all these topics of all the "isms" out there in the world. About how an "ism" stuck in the relationship with God seems to make it all a mess when trying to draw near to God. Today I received this devotional and I feel led to post it.

    Lately I've been asking why/how a relationship with God can be led by any "ism" and not the Holy Spirit without causing confusion. Why a person would rather know "about" God through another person's "theology" and not "KNOW GOD" as led by ONLY the Holy Spirit. This devotional helps me in the answer that God has begun to minister to me.

    Prime Time With God

    Today's Prayer
    "Jesus loves the little children. All the children of the world...red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world." Yes, Lord, you love all the children. Thank you for being "color blind." I pray that humankind will put away their prejudices and see others are you do. I pray that every Christian will look at others through your eyes. Yes, you hate our sin, but you love us so much and want us to have fellowship with you and be with you in eternity. And children...are so precious. I pray that their innocence will not be stolen, that every one will be loved as they should be, that every one will have comfort and food and shelter...and loving families. I pray that every child will have the chance to grow up and know you and serve you...and give back to you and to others through reaching out in ministry as you lead and equip them to do. Bless each one. Help us adults to be sensitive to the needs and feelings of all children and to be caring and compassionate and Christ-like examples, as Jesus would have us be. In the name of Jesus I pray, amen.


    Father, Son and Holy Scriptures?
    TGIF Today God Is First Volume 2, by Os Hillman
    01-27-2010


    "Jesus answered: Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?'" (John 14:9).

    The disciples had been with Jesus for three years. They'd seen miracles - dead men came back to life, the sick were healed, and water was turned to wine. These were but a few of the hundreds of miracles they saw Jesus perform. However, even after these experiences, they lacked one important thing - intimacy with Jesus. They didn't really know Jesus.

    This must have been a great disappointment to Jesus. He'd invested so much into developing a close and intimate relationship with the twelve. Consider that they spent three years with their Master. They learned about Him during those years. However, they had knowledge without intimacy. They experienced God's power individually and He even performed miracles through their own lives. Sometimes it is easier to do the work of God without the intimacy with God.

    A friend once commented about the current condition of much of the mainline churches today: "You'd think the trinity was the Father, Son and Holy Scriptures versus the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There's never been a better description of the Church today.

    But, alas, this is a challenge to my own walk with God. It is easy for me to fall into this trap of working so hard for Jesus that I forget to work with Jesus. Jesus desires intimacy more than works. He tells us in John 15:5: "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned." Whatever works we do must be a fruit of our intimacy with Him.

    Lord, help us not to just know about you. We desire to know you.
    Slug1--out

    ~Does Predestination mean: Once of the devil, Always of the devil?~

    ~Limitations in a Christianís life are due to limited prayer and limiting obedience~

    ~Forgiveness has nothing to do with forgetting that moment... it's all about freedom FROM that moment.~


    ~Your needs activate God's compassion and faith activates God's power~

    ~Three minutes is a lifetime, if you only have two, too live~


  2. #2
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    The bottom line... one must experience God in a person way before he can ever know God. I have fallen into the trap of knowing about God (and that has it's place) many times. But knowing him experientially is the essence of our religion. For only after we have had our feet washed does the command go out to wash others' feet.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    The bottom line... one must experience God in a person way before he can ever know God. I have fallen into the trap of knowing about God (and that has it's place) many times. But knowing him experientially is the essence of our religion. For only after we have had our feet washed does the command go out to wash others' feet.
    Ephesians 3:14-19
    For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
    "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

    -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

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    Quote Originally Posted by VerticalReality View Post
    Ephesians 3:14-19
    For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
    Amen! But one must experience God in salvation before he can come to know love. Even then, IMO, Paul is talking about an experiential knowing as much as a knowledge of knowing. That's why he says things like "that you may know that which is unknowable". It's like romantic language when words fail to communicate what we feel and know. Without Paul's experience on the road to Damascus, he would not have "known the love that passages knowledge".

    Grace to you!
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Amen! But one must experience God in salvation before he can come to know love. Even then, IMO, Paul is talking about an experiential knowing as much as a knowledge of knowing. That's why he says things like "that you may know that which is unknowable". It's like romantic language when words fail to communicate what we feel and know. Without Paul's experience on the road to Damascus, he would not have "known the love that passages knowledge".

    Grace to you!
    Right. I think looking into the Greek shows that Paul is praying that we may have an experiential knowledge of the love of Christ that passes an intellectual knowledge.
    "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

    -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

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    Quote Originally Posted by VerticalReality View Post
    Right. I think looking into the Greek shows that Paul is praying that we may have an experiential knowledge of the love of Christ that passes an intellectual knowledge.
    I think I would be the first to say it... An intellectual understanding of Scripture is like reading sheet music, understanding the notes but not hearing the music. You need the Holy Spirit to understand those things which are spiritually discerned. At the same time, though, that doesn't remove the intellect. It just places it where it should be: in submission to the Spirit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xel'Naga View Post
    I think I would be the first to say it... An intellectual understanding of Scripture is like reading sheet music, understanding the notes but not hearing the music. You need the Holy Spirit to understand those things which are spiritually discerned. At the same time, though, that doesn't remove the intellect. It just places it where it should be: in submission to the Spirit.
    This is a good way to explain it.

    Many do this and can play all types of instruments, make all sorts of music with them, but still not "know music".

    Submission as you put it, surrender as I put it... it's allowing God to be in control and allowing Him to allow us to experience what we can't "learn". The only way to do this is to let His Spirit work in us through our submission and/or surrender.
    Slug1--out

    ~Does Predestination mean: Once of the devil, Always of the devil?~

    ~Limitations in a Christianís life are due to limited prayer and limiting obedience~

    ~Forgiveness has nothing to do with forgetting that moment... it's all about freedom FROM that moment.~


    ~Your needs activate God's compassion and faith activates God's power~

    ~Three minutes is a lifetime, if you only have two, too live~


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xel'Naga View Post
    I think I would be the first to say it... An intellectual understanding of Scripture is like reading sheet music, understanding the notes but not hearing the music. You need the Holy Spirit to understand those things which are spiritually discerned. At the same time, though, that doesn't remove the intellect. It just places it where it should be: in submission to the Spirit.
    But even knowing that way is not the same as experiencing it. For instance, one can know and be spirit led in knowing about desert experiences. But until he walks through it himself, and allows God to use it to work deep in the soul, it won't work it's complete work. One needs to experience christianity as much as know about it.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    How does one know they are experiencing Christianity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HisLeast View Post
    How does one know they are experiencing Christianity?
    Through practice.

    Heb 5:14
    14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.
    NASB

    It is through knowledge and experiencing. I am not coming against knowledge. I am coming against knowledge without experience. We need both!

    Hos 4:6
    6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
    NASB

    We need to experience God because unless we experience him, what we know is almost useless.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Through practice.

    Heb 5:14
    14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.
    NASB

    It is through knowledge and experiencing. I am not coming against knowledge. I am coming against knowledge without experience. We need both!

    Hos 4:6
    6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
    NASB

    We need to experience God because unless we experience him, what we know is almost useless.
    When the Lord began to lead me to be a part of a deliverence ministry I looked at the person who was the leader of this ministry and asked for this person to teach me all they learned... the answer they gave me, "I didn't learn any of this, I experienced it and followed what the Holy Spirit led me to do."

    We do, do classes but until you experience it, all the learning is just that... learning. Until you experience a demon and find yourself saying words that just flow from you, or you find yourself praising God while another in the group is led to pray against the demon. Learning isn't gonna help as much because if you do it per a learned script, not all are the same and we're talking about a spiritual being so being led in the Spirit is what is doing the battle, we're just vessels.

    Yeah, being taught and experiencing are two different things.

    I was all for God many years of my life but done in a way I was taught and also in a way that made me comfortable which was also due to making those teaching me happy because I was following the doctrine, theology, and religion that they followed. There is a deep meaning to the phase, "out of your comfort zone" because God works the way He works, not the way that makes us comfortable, He doesn't follow our theology, doesn't follow our doctrine, doesn't follow our religion. In many cases, also not in a way that makes those around us comfortable if they're not used to operating by the leading of the Holy Spirit or it goes against any theology, doctrine, or religion that they are following.

    I was led 940 something miles to a city south of me in 2009, to do some and/or be present during very specific prayers and missions for God dealing with territorial spiritual warfare. I was also present in various services to "learn" as well. I can always give a testimony of the details but right now there is no need unless I want to deal with those who will attack the testimony. The Lord worked in a mighty way and I "experienced" a new way to be led as each day the Lord revealed what I was to do. On the way down there I only knew I was to be there and when I prayed for what to do, once there... nothing. The next morning I woke up and as I prayed the Lord told me what was to be done. Each day was like that.

    Anyway, learning helps and I need to learn much as we all do but experiencing can be hindered by filtering our relationship with Jesus ONLY through what we are taught by man.
    Slug1--out

    ~Does Predestination mean: Once of the devil, Always of the devil?~

    ~Limitations in a Christianís life are due to limited prayer and limiting obedience~

    ~Forgiveness has nothing to do with forgetting that moment... it's all about freedom FROM that moment.~


    ~Your needs activate God's compassion and faith activates God's power~

    ~Three minutes is a lifetime, if you only have two, too live~


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    No man can know God or God's will apart from a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. One must have the Holy Spirit before he can be led of the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid which is Christ Jesus.

    1 Cor 2:13 Which things also we speak not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth but which the Holy Spirit teacheth comparing spiritual things with spiritual. We know that 1 Cor 2:14-16 teaches we must be saved before we can recieve the things God has for us to learn. We do not simply cast ourselves adrift and expect the Holy Spirit to make something from our folly. The apostles were busy about the work of discipling those who trusted Christ in the word of God. Too many "isms" have had their genesis in rejecting sound doctrine and seeking new and unconvential leading of the Holy Spirit which more often than not is not God's Spirit leading but the leading of the spirit of this world. We try and test the spirits against the word of God to see if they are genuine or counterfeit.

    If I came to you and said God is leading me through the Holy Spirit to perform open heart surgery on you do you think you would be open to the idea? Or would you say I don't need open heart surgery I'm in perfect health or what training do you have in open heart surgery? Just because i say the Holy Spirit has told me to do so does not make it true. It may be extra-biblical and not of God. So only be going back to the word of God can we establish the veracity of the statement or action purposed.

    When we are born again we are babes inChrist and we must feed on the word of God to grow and mature. Had Eve relied on Gods word and not used the experience method of learning we would not be in the place we are today. God gave us His word that we might know of Him. the Holy spirits job is to teach us of God through the word. When Jesus was on the earth He taught the apostles and disciples the word of God. Jesus opened the truths of the OT to the eyes of all who heard Him preach. The Holy Spirit is not more important than Jesus Christ. Lift up Jesus and men will be drawn to Him.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger

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    We all come to the table with an "ism", individualism. We all say the HS guides us but we all come up with differences, so we can never get away from isms for when you try to get away from one you'll run right into another one. Ism's are part of life

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    Quote Originally Posted by HisLeast View Post
    How does one know they are experiencing Christianity?
    I think it is the same as any other intimate relationship qualifier. I can know and experience a relationship with my wife by drawing close to her . . . and her reciprocate that affection. I hear her . . . I listen to her. I spend time with her, and I get to know within my heart what she is all about.

    When I do those things with my spouse, I will also reap observable fruit from that as well. Our bond will grow stronger. Our love will grow stronger. Our trust for one another will grow more toward being complete. This relationship is in many ways the same with God.
    "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

    -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

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    Quote Originally Posted by HisLeast View Post
    How does one know they are experiencing Christianity?
    Not to sound obtuse or arrogant.. but a person must be Born Again from Above... and if you are Genuinely Born AGain from above..

    You will 'know' you are Experiencing Chrisitianity.. True Genuine Chrisitanity.. because the Eternal One lives in you and with you... Jesus, the Bible becomes Alive.. and His Life is lived thru you... you have 'new life'.. your soul and spirit will 'know' it..

    In Jesus's Day you had the religious scholars, the Sanhederin, those religious elite who searched the Scriptures daily.. believing they had Eternal Life... yet they rejected the Messiah.. they saw and beheld their Redeemer.. Jesus Christ God manifest in the flesh.. yet they did not acknowledge or 'know' Him.... they saw Him and even interacted with Him... they experienced Him without the Spirit of the Living God giving them illumination to who He really was..

    now the publicans, prostitutes, tax collectors, the comman folk.. they 'knew' who He was... even His Closest Disciples knew He was the Christ... this abliity to 'know' Him... was due to the Father Revealing that to them.. thru the Eternal Spirit..

    It is the Father who Reveals these things to His Children.. access to HIm being made by Jesus Himself thru the ETernal Spirit..

    and people Experience the True Lviing God because its the Father's Will that they 'know' Him... and HIs Son Jesus the Christ whom He sent...

    listen to Jesus' Words here.. it doesnt get any more clearer than this..

    All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].


    alot of people have 'knowledge of God'... even Jesus HImself...

    yet they DO NOT KNOW HIM..... alot of head knowledge driven by the flesh.... but their 'hearts' are far from Him....

    the deepest chasm in human history as been that distance between the head and heart... short by measuring distance...

    but in the spiritual realm.. its long deep and dark.. and only God Himself can 'bridge that'.. and open up a way from the head to the heart.. so that Genuine Chrisitianity becomes Real and Alive... this not 'religion'.. but a Personal Relationship with the Redeemer of Isreal... Acitive and Alive on a daily Basis.. and ETERNAL..
    Many appear Righteous and Just because they say 'yes' to Jesus Christ , yet they don't do His Will.
    ------------------------------------------------
    Verily I say unto thee, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.
    ------------------------------------------------
    The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying. YEA, I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with LOVINGKINDESS have I DRAWN THEE.
    Jeremiah 31:3

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