Know God vs. Know about God - the "isms" problem

[Slug1]

I've been praying lately concerning all these topics of all the "isms" out there in the world. About how an "ism" stuck in the relationship with God seems to make it all a mess when trying to draw near to God. Today I received this devotional and I feel led to post it.

Lately I've been asking why/how a relationship with God can be led by any "ism" and not the Holy Spirit without causing confusion. Why a person would rather know "about" God through another person's "theology" and not "KNOW GOD" as led by ONLY the Holy Spirit. This devotional helps me in the answer that God has begun to minister to me.

Prime Time With God

Today's Prayer
"Jesus loves the little children. All the children of the world...red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world." Yes, Lord, you love all the children. Thank you for being "color blind." I pray that humankind will put away their prejudices and see others are you do. I pray that every Christian will look at others through your eyes. Yes, you hate our sin, but you love us so much and want us to have fellowship with you and be with you in eternity. And children...are so precious. I pray that their innocence will not be stolen, that every one will be loved as they should be, that every one will have comfort and food and shelter...and loving families. I pray that every child will have the chance to grow up and know you and serve you...and give back to you and to others through reaching out in ministry as you lead and equip them to do. Bless each one. Help us adults to be sensitive to the needs and feelings of all children and to be caring and compassionate and Christ-like examples, as Jesus would have us be. In the name of Jesus I pray, amen.


Father, Son and Holy Scriptures?
TGIF Today God Is First Volume 2, by Os Hillman
01-27-2010


"Jesus answered: Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?'" (John 14:9).

The disciples had been with Jesus for three years. They'd seen miracles - dead men came back to life, the sick were healed, and water was turned to wine. These were but a few of the hundreds of miracles they saw Jesus perform. However, even after these experiences, they lacked one important thing - intimacy with Jesus. They didn't really know Jesus.

This must have been a great disappointment to Jesus. He'd invested so much into developing a close and intimate relationship with the twelve. Consider that they spent three years with their Master. They learned about Him during those years. However, they had knowledge without intimacy. They experienced God's power individually and He even performed miracles through their own lives. Sometimes it is easier to do the work of God without the intimacy with God.

A friend once commented about the current condition of much of the mainline churches today: "You'd think the trinity was the Father, Son and Holy Scriptures versus the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There's never been a better description of the Church today.

But, alas, this is a challenge to my own walk with God. It is easy for me to fall into this trap of working so hard for Jesus that I forget to work with Jesus. Jesus desires intimacy more than works. He tells us in John 15:5: "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned." Whatever works we do must be a fruit of our intimacy with Him.

Lord, help us not to just know about you. We desire to know you.

[Brother Mark]

The bottom line... one must experience God in a person way before he can ever know God. I have fallen into the trap of knowing about God (and that has it's place) many times. But knowing him experientially is the essence of our religion. For only after we have had our feet washed does the command go out to wash others' feet.

[VerticalReality]

The bottom line... one must experience God in a person way before he can ever know God. I have fallen into the trap of knowing about God (and that has it's place) many times. But knowing him experientially is the essence of our religion. For only after we have had our feet washed does the command go out to wash others' feet.

Ephesians 3:14-19
For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

[HisLeast]

To me they are intertwined to such an extent as to be inseparable. There is no "knowing God" without "knowing about God", otherwise how would one know its God one is "experiencing"?

[VerticalReality]

To me they are intertwined to such an extent as to be inseparable. There is no "knowing God" without "knowing about God", otherwise how would one know its God one is "experiencing"?

How do you interpret verse 19 that I posted above?

[Slug1]

To me they are intertwined to such an extent as to be inseparable. There is no "knowing God" without "knowing about God", otherwise how would one know its God one is "experiencing"?

See, that's the problem... so many fail to know God as led by the Holy Spirit by clinging to what others, say about God and even what "they" say God is saying. This is the curse of all the "isms" out there in the world.

Since this is A&E... How did all those who don't have any access to or knowledge of, an "ism", know God vs. knowing about God?

[HisLeast]

See, that's the problem... so many fail to know God as led by the Holy Spirit by clinging to what others, say about God and even what "they" say God is saying. This is the curse of all the "isms" out there in the world.

How would one know if they're being "lead by the spirit" if one didn't have a base knowledge of God?

[Brother Mark]

Ephesians 3:14-19
For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Amen! But one must experience God in salvation before he can come to know love. Even then, IMO, Paul is talking about an experiential knowing as much as a knowledge of knowing. That's why he says things like "that you may know that which is unknowable". It's like romantic language when words fail to communicate what we feel and know. Without Paul's experience on the road to Damascus, he would not have "known the love that passages knowledge".

Grace to you!

[Slug1]

How would one know if they're being "lead by the spirit" if one didn't have a base knowledge of God?

Well, what is a "base knowledge of God?" We all need to be educated, no doubt. It's when we allow that education to govern the relationship we push the Holy Spirit aside and stick an ism in the relationship. Seems many serve God according to what they are "taught" compared to serving God as they are led. Yes, educate me about God but when it comes to my relationship with God it's only through what He's given us... Himself, His Son, His Spirit.

Knowing the leading of the Holy Spirit... tough to answer without being attacked... I'm serious.

Surrendering was where it all began for me. We're all victims of an ism or many isms, I had pushed the Holy Spirit so far away and placed Cessationism in my relationship with God... so my lineup was once, Relationship with God, though Jesus, Cessationism, Holy Spirit. So life at this time, the Holy Spirit couldn't do anything with me.

Hisleast... I'm gonna lift something in prayer concerning your question and I'll PM ya soon.

edit: Himself, His Son, His Spirit - I want to add... His Son is the WORD. What illuminates the Bible? Only His Spirit, so if we allow another person's interpretation (any of the isms out there) be our illuminiation? Then we're again, pushing the Holy Spirit aside.

Others can help us understand, pastors are used by God for this purpose, they are also used to help us with direction but we can't limit understanding and direction from only them or any others we listen to. We have to allow the Holy Spirit the final and ultimate given illumination and direction as what He leads us to is the very will of God.

[Athanasius]

You can't love someone without knowing who they are. You can't know God without knowing who He is. Relationship. I don't see how the two can be separated (even knowing God through an 'ism' or two). The danger is when you put things ahead of God (ahead of the Spirit). Which makes me wonder why, whenever these threads come up, that distinction is never brought up, even though it's been mentioned time and time again.

[VerticalReality]

Amen! But one must experience God in salvation before he can come to know love. Even then, IMO, Paul is talking about an experiential knowing as much as a knowledge of knowing. That's why he says things like "that you may know that which is unknowable". It's like romantic language when words fail to communicate what we feel and know. Without Paul's experience on the road to Damascus, he would not have "known the love that passages knowledge".

Grace to you!

Right. I think looking into the Greek shows that Paul is praying that we may have an experiential knowledge of the love of Christ that passes an intellectual knowledge.

[Athanasius]

Right. I think looking into the Greek shows that Paul is praying that we may have an experiential knowledge of the love of Christ that passes an intellectual knowledge.

I think I would be the first to say it... An intellectual understanding of Scripture is like reading sheet music, understanding the notes but not hearing the music. You need the Holy Spirit to understand those things which are spiritually discerned. At the same time, though, that doesn't remove the intellect. It just places it where it should be: in submission to the Spirit.

[Slug1]

I think I would be the first to say it... An intellectual understanding of Scripture is like reading sheet music, understanding the notes but not hearing the music. You need the Holy Spirit to understand those things which are spiritually discerned. At the same time, though, that doesn't remove the intellect. It just places it where it should be: in submission to the Spirit.

This is a good way to explain it.

Many do this and can play all types of instruments, make all sorts of music with them, but still not "know music".

Submission as you put it, surrender as I put it... it's allowing God to be in control and allowing Him to allow us to experience what we can't "learn". The only way to do this is to let His Spirit work in us through our submission and/or surrender.

[Brother Mark]

I think I would be the first to say it... An intellectual understanding of Scripture is like reading sheet music, understanding the notes but not hearing the music. You need the Holy Spirit to understand those things which are spiritually discerned. At the same time, though, that doesn't remove the intellect. It just places it where it should be: in submission to the Spirit.

But even knowing that way is not the same as experiencing it. For instance, one can know and be spirit led in knowing about desert experiences. But until he walks through it himself, and allows God to use it to work deep in the soul, it won't work it's complete work. One needs to experience christianity as much as know about it.

[HisLeast]

How does one know they are experiencing Christianity?