Bible Only? God Speaks Only Through Scripture?

[VerticalReality]

VerticalReality, you're a pastor... if a person is doing something wrong, something small on a human scale but is none the least not in the will of God and a pastor gives a sermon about the consequenses of continued pursuit of a "wrong" action. Would you agree it's easier for this person to disregard what was said through your lips since you're "just" their pastor?

I find on many occasions such as the example you give, they won't just disregard it . . . they will be offended by it. I've been given messages before to preach to the congregation that I felt God wanted me to preach. One in particular was a message on submission. In this message I preached on 1) submission to governing authorities, 2) wives submitting to husbands, 3) husbands loving their wives, 4) submitting to one another in love, 5) submitting to church government, and foremost 6) submitting to God (many people don't realize that if they're not walking out the former five items then they are not fully submitting to number six either). The response from this message was mixed. Some actually examined themselves and allowed God to work in them. Others got offended and felt like my words were directed straight at them (that's called conviction).

Now compare this to God saying the words of such a sermon to them directly and they "hear" God saying the words... as clearly as Ananias receiving his instructions. Who could not submit? Who would not feel convicted and not be accountable when they can hear God. Jonah didn't and he became fishfood

This is why the word says that under the New Covenant no man will teach another saying to know God . . .

The reason is because the Holy Spirit teaches. Now, this doesn't mean that we don't need preachers. It just means that a preacher can preach all day long, but unless a person is open to receiving it by the Spirit of God they will not be taught. This is what happened on the occasions I'm referencing above. If someone just gets offended then they are not open to receiving from the Spirit of God. They will not be taught, and they will not have the ears to hear.

People don't want to be in submission to God. Some don't exercise the faith to handle it. They even ask God why don't they have a purpose in His will and God is saying... BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH (in a Jack Nickelson voice).

Agreed. Folks want to be anointed for ministry but they don't want to submit to the One who does the anointing.

[Brother Mark]

I find on many occasions such as the example you give, they won't just disregard it . . . they will be offended by it. I've been given messages before to preach to the congregation that I felt God wanted me to preach. One in particular was a message on submission. In this message I preached on 1) submission to governing authorities, 2) wives submitting to husbands, 3) husbands loving their wives, 4) submitting to one another in love, 5) submitting to church government, and foremost 6) submitting to God (many people don't realize that if not walking out the former five items then you are not fully submitting to number six either). The response from this message was mixed. Some actually examined themselves and allowed God to work in them. Others got offended and felt like my words were directed straight at them (that's called conviction).

Authority is a serious issue with God. It put a healthy fear of God on me when I began to understand it.

[VerticalReality]

Authority is a serious issue with God. It put a healthy fear of God on me when I began to understand it.

Very true. What folks fail to see many times is how the enemy really enjoys working through people with divisiveness. This is especially true in our individualistic American culture where everything is based on the individual and things like self-esteem. That is why we have so many folks who cannot receive correction for anything, and this why we have so many rebels in our society that do not want to be taught anything because they know everything already.

I had to be corrected by an elder in my church a while back because myself and another member of the church, as harmless as we thought it was at the time, were involved in creating dissensions within the church because we allowed the enemy to come in and take advantage of us. We were questioning leadership and making our disagreements very visible to everyone else.

When the elder confronted us on it at the leading of the Lord (if you won't hear God He is so gracious that He will send a messenger to get your attention), I wasn't even all that certain how to take it at first. However, when I got home and really started to pray about it and examine myself, the Lord really began ministering to me and showing me how I had allowed the enemy to gain a foothold through such divisive attitudes. I had to repent of my sin, and it is something that God has used in me a great deal since to expose the devil where he is at work.

God's word talks a lot about agreement and one accord for a reason. Without it a ministry will be totally ineffective. However, if those of a ministry are hearing God and listening to Him, they will be able to identify and expose these malicious attacks even before they happen.

[Slug1]

When the elder confronted us on it at the leading of the Lord (if you won't hear God He is so gracious that He will send a messenger to get your attention), I wasn't even all that certain how to take it at first.

Yeah, I'm an elder in our church and the Lord has pointed out stuff to me and has even given me words for people. Of course these go through the pastor before ever bringing the message to a person in the church.

Yeah, when the paster has an elder meeting and it comes the time for the concerns... he's already looking at me because I'm not hesitant in speaking what the Lord is telling me is wrong.

[VerticalReality]

Yeah, I'm an elder in our church and the Lord has pointed out stuff to me and has even given me words for people. Of course these go through the pastor before ever bringing the message to a person in the church.

Yeah, when the paster has an elder meeting and it comes the time for the concerns... he's already looking at me because I'm not hesitant in speaking what the Lord is telling me is wrong.

This is another reason why it is critical to hear God. It's just as you have stated, God shows us things that are absolutely necessary to know in order to prevent destruction.

The Lord will show us where the devil is at work, whether it is through certain situations or even other people. If we aren't hearing God we will not be able to prevent these things before they turn into disaster. When Israel was obedient and listened to God they were always well-prepared for the battle to come. When they were disobedient and didn't heed God's words . . . that is when they would be overcome by the enemy.

[Slug1]

This is another reason why it is critical to hear God. It's just as you have stated, God shows us things that are absolutely necessary to know in order to prevent destruction.

The Lord will show us where the devil is at work, whether it is through certain situations or even other people. If we aren't hearing God we will not be able to prevent these things before they turn into disaster. When Israel was obedient and listened to God they were always well-prepared for the battle to come. When they were disobedient and didn't heed God's words . . . that is when they would be overcome by the enemy.

AMEN, sometimes nothing is wrong but a warning is still being voiced by God. Sometimes multiple elders have received the same message, or have brought it to me since I'm the lead elder and when another brings the same, or I've already received and then I have confirmation through another elder... I will call the pastor at 0-dark-30 if I have to and not wait.

Many times it is scripture as well and when I bring it to the pastor, many times he's told me it was the scripture and confirmation he was waiting for.

[Slug1]

Who would not feel convicted and not be accountable when they can hear God. Jonah didn't and he became fishfood

VR... well, as usual I find God is listening and answering some stuff that I'm lifting up to Him and a day after I make this statement, I receive this in my email...

Prime Time With God

Today's Prayer
Dear Lord, I offer myself to you as an open vessel. Please work in my life and accomplish your will through me. Every little thing and every great thing that is accomplished, I praise you for it and give you all the glory. Thank you for blessing my life with your power and presence. In Jesus' name, amen.

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Worthless Idols
TGIF Today God Is First Volume 1, by Os Hillman
02-12-2010

"Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs." - Jonah 2:8

Have you ever exercised your will over the will of God? Have you ever been so willful that you were going to go your own way no matter what God said? If so, you have been at the same place as the prophet Jonah. God called Jonah to deliver a message to God's people as a warning. Jonah flatly refused. It was Jonah's will over God's. Guess who won?

Talk about willpower; Jonah had it! In fact, he was so rebellious toward God's will that he got on a ship to go the opposite direction. But he couldn't go far enough. The omnipotence of God caught up with Jonah, and he was hurled overboard when the seas became rough and the ship's crew figured Jonah was the source of their problems. Overboard he went and into the belly of that big fish.

God has a way of getting us to rethink our decisions, to reconsider our position. In fact, we see the extent of Jonah's willfulness by the amount of time he was willing to hang out in the belly of that fish - three full days. Then, Jonah decides enough is enough! Obedience is better than this fish belly and seaweed.

From inside the fish, Jonah prayed to the Lord his God.

He said: "In my distress I called to the Lord, and He answered me. From the depths of the grave I called for help, and You listened to my cry. You hurled me into the deep, into the very heart of the seas, and the currents swirled about me; all Your waves and breakers swept over me. I said, 'I have been banished from Your sight; yet I will look again toward Your holy temple.' The engulfing waters threatened me, the deep surrounded me; seaweed was wrapped around my head. To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath barred me in forever. But You brought my life up from the pit, O Lord my God. When my life was ebbing away, I remembered You, Lord, and my prayer rose to You, to Your holy temple. Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs. But I, with a song of thanksgiving, will sacrifice to You. What I have vowed I will make good. Salvation comes from the Lord." And the Lord commanded the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land. Then the word of the Lord came to Jonah a second time: "Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim to it the message I give you." Jonah obeyed the word of the Lord and went to Nineveh (Jonah 2:2-3:3a).

In the midst of realizing his own calamity, Jonah made a seemingly out-of-context statement: "Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs." Jonah was thinking of the sailors who threw him overboard and how they prayed to worthless idols. In the business world, we rub shoulders with those who cling to worthless idols every day. How tragic.

But this story's primary message is for every believer. And I can identify with Jonah. There's been many a man placed in the "belly of the fish" to encourage him to fulfill the purposes of God for which He called him. Jonah's situation changed immediately upon his obedience. Obedience is a mysterious thing. Jesus had to learn it through the things He suffered (see Heb. 5:8). If Jesus had to learn obedience through suffering, what does that mean for you and me? Sometimes willing obedience requires encouragement.

[ClayInHisHands]

Yeah, I'm an elder in our church and the Lord has pointed out stuff to me and has even given me words for people. Of course these go through the pastor before ever bringing the message to a person in the church.

Yeah, when the paster has an elder meeting and it comes the time for the concerns... he's already looking at me because I'm not hesitant in speaking what the Lord is telling me is wrong.

Why would it need to go through the pastor before you tell someone something the Lord has led you to say. What specifically would require you to 'get the pastors permission first' ? I can understand if maybe you felt led to tell them something that could be offensive, and even then maybe. Can you give me an example? Thanks


In Christ's Love

[Slug1]

Why would it need to go through the pastor before you tell someone something the Lord has led you to say. What specifically would require you to 'get the pastors permission first' ? I can understand if maybe you felt led to tell them something that could be offensive, and even then maybe. Can you give me an example? Thanks


In Christ's Love

Confirmation. The enemy can and has given words to others in church and they went straight to the person and gave them the word... the fall out of a false word is devestating. So all words go through the pastor and he may also involve the prophets to also pray for Gods confirmation. Once received then he will pass the word or allow the one who received the word to pass the message.

[tango]

Why would it need to go through the pastor before you tell someone something the Lord has led you to say. What specifically would require you to 'get the pastors permission first' ? I can understand if maybe you felt led to tell them something that could be offensive, and even then maybe. Can you give me an example? Thanks

In Christ's Love

What Slug said... we need to test the spirits.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

This verse to the Corinthians could easily be interpreted in many ways, including the fact that although God may give a prophet a word to speak it is ultimately the prophet's decision when (and indeed whether) to speak it. It could also be interpreted as meaning that other prophets can and should weigh a word given to one, to seek confirmation from God and to make sure it is truly a word from God before sharing it with someone. Even if it is confirmed as being from God it is important to ensure it is delivered in a way that is appropriate, and that is uplifting.

Last Sunday in church we had a time of prayer for an upcoming church project. After the time of prayer a few people reporting being given pictures or words relating to the project. I also received a picture during the time of prayer that I wasn't sure how to interpret but could see how some people might find it discouraging. So rather than share it with the church in public I shared it with the pastor in private and let him know why I hadn't shared it in public - he was appreciative on both counts.

[Dani H]

To answer the OP's original questions ... according to Hebrews, God only speaks to us through His Son. You can have all the Bible you want; without Jesus, God isn't going to say anything else to you.

In the beginning was the Word (Jesus). And the Word became flesh.

[Scruffy Kid]

Well, the recent dialogue in this thread -- about submission, testing what one supposes might be godly insight with others, and so on -- has been very interesting and useful, I think. However, the last comment, by DaniHansen, can start a very different line of thinking, it seems to me, which is also of great importance.

To answer the OP's original questions ... according to Hebrews, God only speaks to us through His Son . You can have all the Bible you want; without Jesus, God isn't going to say anything else to you.

In the beginning was the Word (Jesus). And the Word became flesh.

Often, I think, there's a tendency to treat the Bible as if it were an all-purpose reference work, in general, or at least as regards spiritual matters. This works in the direction of regarding the Bible merely as a book of factual information (though of course superior to other books in being authoritative) and thus something whose central aim is to supply answers to various questions we might have, tell us things we want to know, and so on. That is, the central aim of the Bible -- and perhaps of Christian faith and belief in general -- becomes (if and as one starts to take this approach) perceived as the communication of various facts, truths, rules, commands, etc. These are, so to speak, a system of belief, thought of (perhaps unconsciously) as "objective" in the sense of "impersonal" or like mere facts of nature.

I myself can make this mistake, at times.

While the Bible of course does some conveying of facts, truths, rules, and so on, these things are -- it seems to me -- misunderstood unless they are understood in the proper, the true Biblical, context. And what is that?

Just as DaniHansen reminds us, the Bible, and the Christian faith, is there to reveal, to bring us to, to help us place ourselves in the hands of, to open our hearts to, the living God, that is, to reveal not so much "truths" as a person, the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior, and through Him, God the Father.

It is coming into a loving, humble, childlike, relationship with God that is the aim of our lives: opening our hearts to God.

And to this end, the Bible is Divine Revelation, which means, revealing, making known to us, God, and His Son Jesus Christ.

It is of Him that the entire Bible speaks, and to Him (not, as such, to various commands, facts, truths, etc., important as these are) that we are to bring our hearts, our lives, our whole selves, and Him that the Bible invites us to invite into our lives. It is He who speaks to us, through the Scriptures, He who is our Savior, and Lord, Whom we seek, and Who, with great power and love, has sought and found us!!

Praise be to His Name forever and ever. Amen!

[Servant89]

I am pretty sure you all have heard this anyway... but ...

The role and calling of the prophet (those that speak for God through the Holy Spirit) remains today in the Church and will remain in effect until the second coming of Christ (at the end of the 70th week of Daniel). It is written:

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

1 Cor 14:4 ... but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

1 Cor 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

P.S. 2 Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Isa 8:20 To the law and the testimony, if they speak not according to this word, there is no light in them.

Shalom