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Thread: Close but no cigar.

  1. #1

    Close but no cigar.

    So I was over in the controversial section and I read this fine story posted by fenris "cantor and the Klansman" go check out the thread, read it, its fine story. After I read it I though, I thought, wow he did a complete 180, but went to hell anyway because he converted to Judaism instead of Christianity. Then I thought man, that family that helped him are probably going to hell too if they don't convert. Then as I read some of the posts some folks revealed that they had cried, or it touched them...But from a Christian perspective, isn't this story a particularly tragic example of irony?

  2. #2
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    I actually cried because it is we Christians that seem to "miss it" so many times that perfect love casts out fear. Can the lost do good things? Sure. But we ALL fall short. I know I have.
    For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

    If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

    Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Missionary View Post
    I actually cried because it is we Christians that seem to "miss it" so many times that perfect love casts out fear. Can the lost do good things? Sure. But we ALL fall short. I know I have.
    dont get me wrong, I wasnt trying to denigrate anyone's heartfelt comments, I just felt like its a really tragic story from a christian perspective. I think now I will go into another aspect, love , i suppose, cast out that man's fear , but ultimately did nothing of any consequence for his soul....which is what god cares about i think.

  4. #4
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    All I can say is God is in control and he will use us how he sees fit, no matter how we slice it "GODS will be done".

  5. #5
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    God cares about both. The order that I have found goes something like... Salvation, Character, Comfort.
    For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

    If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

    Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mighty Sword View Post
    All I can say is God is in control and he will use us how he sees fit, no matter how we slice it "GODS will be done".
    I dont know what this is supposed to mean. God's will was that this guy would learn the error of his ways, but not learn that Christianity was the right religion...I mean if you are going to attribute his turn around to God and his love then why wouldnt God's love have also lead him to christianity...it just seems like God could have just left him alone to be a klansman for all it was worth.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Missionary View Post
    God cares about both. The order that I have found goes something like... Salvation, Character, Comfort.
    So, how did everyone in the story miss step one? supposedly people prayed for God's help in the situation, if the implications are to be believed God practically burned the nazi rings off of his hands. God changed his heart (made or allowed him to recognize the wrongness of his ways), God influenced people in the story to show the klansman kindness and love, but in all of this God didn't show anyone that judaism was going to land them in hell? It even seems somewhat misleading that those jewish prayers even appeared to work, If they didnt work, then at least it might cause a person to wonder "hey why arent my prayers working? maybe its because i'm not a Christian?", but nope, no one has that oppourtunity. it just seems like at the very least this story would make you (the collective you) wonder about exactly what went on here.

  8. #8
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    I was speaking about GOD'S priorities. We miss those all the time...
    For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

    If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

    Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Missionary View Post
    I was speaking about GOD'S priorities. We miss those all the time...
    Yes, I suppose the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and a rather exceptional Jewish family and at least 1 reformed Klansman. I think that if a person believes both in the truth of Christianity and that God was the agent of love and change in this story then that person might end up with a very mixed message about his priorities. A person might think, God, why bother with the last 2 priorities at all in this situation as no one here was ultimately saved..right? What part do you suppose God played in this story?

  10. #10
    How do you know someone else wasn't saved as a result?

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    Quote Originally Posted by oscarkipling View Post
    I dont know what this is supposed to mean. God's will was that this guy would learn the error of his ways, but not learn that Christianity was the right religion...I mean if you are going to attribute his turn around to God and his love then why wouldnt God's love have also lead him to christianity...it just seems like God could have just left him alone to be a klansman for all it was worth.
    Well since Christianity isn't a religion and he came to know GOD on a more personal level and he had an opportunity to see GODS love through man, maybe that's as far as he was meant to go, that's all I can contribute to this thread.

    M.E.
    How do you know someone else wasn't saved as a result?

    Good point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oscarkipling View Post
    Yes, I suppose the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and a rather exceptional Jewish family and at least 1 reformed Klansman. I think that if a person believes both in the truth of Christianity and that God was the agent of love and change in this story then that person might end up with a very mixed message about his priorities. A person might think, God, why bother with the last 2 priorities at all in this situation as no one here was ultimately saved..right? What part do you suppose God played in this story?
    Is it within reason that an all knowing God could have known that a member of this board would read that story and show them a shortcoming in their life to great effect and possibly even starting within them a ministry of loving the unlovable and showing people that no one wants to be around God's never ending love? What if God used this Jewish family to show Christians how bad we do sometimes? God has been known to do that from time to time...
    For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

    If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

    Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Missionary View Post
    Is it within reason that an all knowing God could have known that a member of this board would read that story and show them a shortcoming in their life to great effect and possibly even starting within them a ministry of loving the unlovable and showing people that no one wants to be around God's never ending love? What if God used this Jewish family to show Christians how bad we do sometimes? God has been known to do that from time to time...
    That be me, I wept on the way home on my treatment of illegal aliens, I see things in a whole new light although I don't approve of them being here they are my brethren and should be respected as so, I have repented, thanks UM.

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    It was a crack head for me. I went from where I wouldn't pee on one even if he was on fire to pastoring a church full of them in less than six months. I found myself truly loving the very people I had detested for much of my adult life. God has a sense of humor...
    For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

    If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

    Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    How do you know someone else wasn't saved as a result?
    Thats true, I don't. mysterious ways I suppose.

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