Close but no cigar.

***oscarkipling*** · Feb 3rd 2010, 03:48 PM

So I was over in the controversial section and I read this fine story posted by fenris "cantor and the Klansman" go check out the thread, read it, its fine story. After I read it I though, I thought, wow he did a complete 180, but went to hell anyway because he converted to Judaism instead of Christianity. Then I thought man, that family that helped him are probably going to hell too if they don't convert. Then as I read some of the posts some folks revealed that they had cried, or it touched them...But from a Christian perspective, isn't this story a particularly tragic example of irony?

***Firefighter*** · Feb 3rd 2010, 04:47 PM

I actually cried because it is we Christians that seem to "miss it" so many times that perfect love casts out fear. Can the lost do good things? Sure. But we ALL fall short. I know I have.

***oscarkipling*** · Feb 3rd 2010, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Urban Missionary

I actually cried because it is we Christians that seem to "miss it" so many times that perfect love casts out fear. Can the lost do good things? Sure. But we ALL fall short. I know I have.

dont get me wrong, I wasnt trying to denigrate anyone's heartfelt comments, I just felt like its a really tragic story from a christian perspective. I think now I will go into another aspect, love , i suppose, cast out that man's fear , but ultimately did nothing of any consequence for his soul....which is what god cares about i think.

***The Mighty Sword*** · Feb 3rd 2010, 05:37 PM

All I can say is God is in control and he will use us how he sees fit, no matter how we slice it "GODS will be done".

***Firefighter*** · Feb 3rd 2010, 05:38 PM

God cares about both. The order that I have found goes something like... Salvation, Character, Comfort.

***oscarkipling*** · Feb 4th 2010, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by The Mighty Sword

All I can say is God is in control and he will use us how he sees fit, no matter how we slice it "GODS will be done".

I dont know what this is supposed to mean. God's will was that this guy would learn the error of his ways, but not learn that Christianity was the right religion...I mean if you are going to attribute his turn around to God and his love then why wouldnt God's love have also lead him to christianity...it just seems like God could have just left him alone to be a klansman for all it was worth.

***oscarkipling*** · Feb 4th 2010, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Urban Missionary

God cares about both. The order that I have found goes something like... Salvation, Character, Comfort.

So, how did everyone in the story miss step one? supposedly people prayed for God's help in the situation, if the implications are to be believed God practically burned the nazi rings off of his hands. God changed his heart (made or allowed him to recognize the wrongness of his ways), God influenced people in the story to show the klansman kindness and love, but in all of this God didn't show anyone that judaism was going to land them in hell? It even seems somewhat misleading that those jewish prayers even appeared to work, If they didnt work, then at least it might cause a person to wonder "hey why arent my prayers working? maybe its because i'm not a Christian?", but nope, no one has that oppourtunity. it just seems like at the very least this story would make you (the collective you) wonder about exactly what went on here.

***Firefighter*** · Feb 4th 2010, 12:48 PM

I was speaking about GOD'S priorities. We miss those all the time...

***oscarkipling*** · Feb 4th 2010, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Urban Missionary

I was speaking about GOD'S priorities. We miss those all the time...

Yes, I suppose the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and a rather exceptional Jewish family and at least 1 reformed Klansman. I think that if a person believes both in the truth of Christianity and that God was the agent of love and change in this story then that person might end up with a very mixed message about his priorities. A person might think, God, why bother with the last 2 priorities at all in this situation as no one here was ultimately saved..right? What part do you suppose God played in this story?

***markedward*** · Feb 4th 2010, 06:35 PM

How do you know someone else wasn't saved as a result?

***The Mighty Sword*** · Feb 4th 2010, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by oscarkipling

I dont know what this is supposed to mean. God's will was that this guy would learn the error of his ways, but not learn that Christianity was the right religion...I mean if you are going to attribute his turn around to God and his love then why wouldnt God's love have also lead him to christianity...it just seems like God could have just left him alone to be a klansman for all it was worth.

Well since Christianity isn't a religion and he came to know GOD on a more personal level and he had an opportunity to see GODS love through man, maybe that's as far as he was meant to go, that's all I can contribute to this thread.

M.E.
How do you know someone else wasn't saved as a result?

Good point.

***Firefighter*** · Feb 4th 2010, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by oscarkipling

Yes, I suppose the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and a rather exceptional Jewish family and at least 1 reformed Klansman. I think that if a person believes both in the truth of Christianity and that God was the agent of love and change in this story then that person might end up with a very mixed message about his priorities. A person might think, God, why bother with the last 2 priorities at all in this situation as no one here was ultimately saved..right? What part do you suppose God played in this story?

Is it within reason that an all knowing God could have known that a member of this board would read that story and show them a shortcoming in their life to great effect and possibly even starting within them a ministry of loving the unlovable and showing people that no one wants to be around God's never ending love? What if God used this Jewish family to show Christians how bad we do sometimes? God has been known to do that from time to time...

***The Mighty Sword*** · Feb 4th 2010, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Urban Missionary

Is it within reason that an all knowing God could have known that a member of this board would read that story and show them a shortcoming in their life to great effect and possibly even starting within them a ministry of loving the unlovable and showing people that no one wants to be around God's never ending love? What if God used this Jewish family to show Christians how bad we do sometimes? God has been known to do that from time to time...

That be me, I wept on the way home on my treatment of illegal aliens, I see things in a whole new light although I don't approve of them being here they are my brethren and should be respected as so, I have repented, thanks UM.

***Firefighter*** · Feb 4th 2010, 10:56 PM

It was a crack head for me. I went from where I wouldn't pee on one even if he was on fire to pastoring a church full of them in less than six months. I found myself truly loving the very people I had detested for much of my adult life. God has a sense of humor...