If Jesus was on earth today...

[Freek]

So there's a statement that Jesus will have radically different teachings than I already know... but there are no specific examples as to where what I've learned is radically different from what Jesus would teach?

It seems that you have tremendous difficulty to understand. Others have no such problem. Just ignore the thread please.

[HisLeast]

It seems that you have tremendous difficulty to understand. Others have no such problem. Just ignore the thread please.

Of course I don't understand. Here I have people telling me how Jesus would teach something radically different than what I've been taught, but can't tell me what specifically that would be. So you can blame that on my ability to understand... or perhaps its someone else's ability to explain.

[Freek]

I think that the Stormers will win the Super 14 this year. This thread is now shot, so we might as well discuss sports.

[newinchrist4now]

Let's imagine that Jesus came back to earth today, not to be crucified again, but this time to show us how to live the life that God intended. Would you persecute him like the religious leaders 2000 years ago or would you hearken to His teachings?

Think carefully about the answer, because I think His doctrine will be radically different from that which is taught in most churches today. Will you accept what He teaches or will you stone Him because his teachings differ from what you have been taught and therefore your understanding of the scriptures?

There was a book and movie with that premise, Joshua. I think some Christians would embrace Him, others would persecute Him but I do not think He would teach any different than He already Has.

[Butch5]

I'm not saying he's incorrect (or even correct for that matter). I'm simply asking for examples. Surely if they were that radically different, examples would be easy to come by, yes?

I can give you some examples, for instance, baptism, it was taught that this was the point at which one enters the church and that this was the point where one was born again. Today Baptism and Communion are taught as a symbol in many churches, in the first century these were seen as essential, not just something that is done as obedience.The heavenly destiny was not taught, the doctrine of the two kingdoms was a foundation of the Christian faith, it is almost unheard of in modern Christianity. Pacifism was another central doctrine of the first century church which is rejected by most Christians today. The idea of faith alone was completely foreign to the first century church, they knew of no such concept. The Kingdom of God was a real physical kingdom, not a spiritual idea of a future event. These are some that come to mind, there are probably others that I have not thought of off hand.

[HisLeast]

I can give you some examples, for instance, baptism, it was taught that this was the point at which one enters the church and that this was the point where one was born again. Today Baptism and Communion are taught as a symbol in many churches, in the first century these were seen as essential, not just something that is done as obedience.The heavenly destiny was not taught, the doctrine of the two kingdoms was a foundation of the Christian faith, it is almost unheard of in modern Christianity. Pacifism was another central doctrine of the first century church which is rejected by most Christians today. The idea of faith alone was completely foreign to the first century church, they knew of no such concept. The Kingdom of God was a real physical kingdom, not a spiritual idea of a future event. These are some that come to mind, there are probably others that I have not thought of off hand.

And how do you know these aren't just things you were taught to believe about Jesus and the early church?

[Butch5]

And how do you know these aren't just things you were taught to believe about Jesus and the early church?

All one has to do is to read the writings of men from this time period.

[Sirus]

All one has to do is to read the writings of men from this time period.

Much earlier than that some of those men (ecf's were late) were written about........

2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

2Pe 2:1-22 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
.............
.....

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

[chad]

Yes, and yes, Jesus is with us today on earth in the form of the Holy Spirit. That is if you are a believer in the Trinity.

Sir, have you read the OP?

[Butch5]

Much earlier than that some of those men (ecf's were late) were written about........

2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

2Pe 2:1-22 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
.............
.....

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

The ECF's were heretics???

[Sirus]

I can't say that about them all, but I think it possible a few were. Gnostics are considered heretics, right? Yep. Others were seriously wrong in many important areas and their teachings continue to plague the church even to this day.

[Butch5]

I can't say that about them all, but I think it possible a few were. Gnostics are considered heretics, right? Yep. Others were seriously wrong in many important areas and their teachings continue to plague the church even to this day.

You think??? You said some were wrong and their teachings plague us today. But you think that some were wrong? They were in agreement on the doctrines I stated above. Either they were all wrong or all right on the above doctrines. Since some were taught by the apostles and Peter appointed one of them personally as bishop. Since Peter thought what they were teaching was correct, I'm going to side with him.

[Sirus]

Well how long is your list? Really, this is getting silly.
"some were taught by the apostles"
who?
"Peter appointed one of them personally as bishop"
Ignatius?
Peter was infallible? eh?

Looks like you really only possibly have 2 or 3 out of what? about 20?
So if you are going to site a few, do so, but don't make general statements about men as a group called the early church fathers and expect those that know better to generally agree with the group because 17 or 18 make the few look really really bad when you do that.
See, I wouldn't lump a few good in with the bad, so I wouldn't have a group to generalize with.

[Butch5]

Well how long is your list? Really, this is getting silly.
"some were taught by the apostles"
who?
"Peter appointed one of them personally as bishop"
Ignatius?
Peter was infallible? eh?

Looks like you really only possibly have 2 or 3 out of what? about 20?
So if you are going to site a few, do so, but don't make general statements about men as a group called the early church fathers and expect those that know better to generally agree with the group because 17 or 18 make the few look really really bad when you do that.
See, I wouldn't lump a few good in with the bad, so I wouldn't have a group to generalize with.

Are you going to claim that the doctrines that I posted were not taught in the early church??? I'll stick with Peter you stick with your modern commentators.

[Sirus]

Are you going to claim that the doctrines that I posted were not taught in the early church??? I'll stick with Peter you stick with your modern commentators.

I am claiming that it doesn't matter what was taught in what you call the early church. Early is not first. That's your mistake. The apostles considered them late. In other words they are not the first church. They are part of the latter. Not good. They are that which Jesus referred to as leaven of the pharisees and the corruption that would cause church growth. That Paul said would come after his departure. That Peter said would come to those he wrote. Many find the way of destruction. Few find the way. Why do I care what this era said in lite of this truth from our Lord and His chosen Apostles? I have their words and need no others.
I made no mention of modern commentators.

They were dead wrong on baptism -IF they implied water, which is not in some of their writings. It's assumed just as it is in Romans 6 today.
Communion is cloudy at best.
I do not hold to a heavenly destiny and much truth is in the doctrine of the two kingdoms.
Pacifism is good. Don't need any more crusades. (koG is not physical -occupy til I come- not physical)
Faith alone was not foreign to them, they just had a proper understanding that faith had substance and evidence that proves faith. Faith, works, justified.
The kingdom of God is not physical to us now, though the risen Savior was and the kingdom will be. The kingdom of heaven is physical, here, and now.