I need help with Psalm 104 v8.

[pierreSimons]

Hi, I need help regarding Psalm 104 v8 found in KJV and ESV version of Bible.
ESV
8The mountains rose, the valleys sank down
to the place that you cappointed for them.
KJV
8They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.

Does anyone know which one is the proper translation?
I know that the translation can have errors although the original is correct.
-Thanks for reply

**I think I might've posted this twice because first time I didn't see it in sub-forum , so it wasn't intentional.

[pierreSimons]

It's ok , I found the answer. An article whose url I won't mention stated that the KJV, NIV, NKJV, and NRSV have not translated that verse correctly.
I did an internet search for "ESV vs KJV psalm 104".
-Thanks , hope it helps someone

[Sirus]

Continue searching then because the kjv is right.
Read v8 after v6

Psa 104:6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
Psa 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
Psa 104:8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.

What is says is

Psa 104:8 the waters go up by the mountains; the waters go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.

[Servant89]

It describes the cycle of water on earth. The sun evaporates water from the ocean, it goes into clouds, the clouds condense the water into rain or snow when it hits the cold top of mountains and it comes down through rives to the valleys until it reaches the ocean. It also talks about the waves of the seas that can not go back to over the earth, being stopped by the sand bank at the beach (Job 38:11 repeats it).

Shalom

[pierreSimons]

Is it not an account of Noah's flood.
I was reading this http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...od-or-creation
-Thanks guys

[BadDog]

Hi, I need help regarding Psalm 104 v8 found in KJV and ESV version of Bible.
ESV
8The mountains rose, the valleys sank down
to the place that you cappointed for them.
KJV
8They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.

Does anyone know which one is the proper translation?
I know that the translation can have errors although the original is correct.
-Thanks for reply

**I think I might've posted this twice because first time I didn't see it in sub-forum , so it wasn't intentional.

The NET Bible, found at www.bible.org, is a great resource for such things, as they have about 66,000 footnotes, most explaining why they translated a text the way they did. It's best to include vs. 7:

Psalm 104:7, 8 Your shout made the waters retreat; at the sound of your thunderous voice they hurried off –
as the mountains rose up, and the valleys went down – to the place you appointed for them. 9
tn9 Heb “from your shout they fled, from the sound of your thunder they hurried off.”
sn9 Verses 7-8 poetically depict Gen 1:9-10.

Here's Genesis 1:9, 10 God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place and let dry ground appear.” It was so. God called the dry ground “land” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” God saw that it was good.

Apparently Psalm 104 is referencing the creation in a poetic fashion. When we include vs. 7 it's clear that the ESV got it right.

[pierreSimons]

@BadDog
Thanks for that resource, I'll definitely look at it when I have time.
The reason why I'm looking at it is because if that is talking about Noah's flood, then it would support why the mountains would've been much lower in height prior to the flood.
Anyway I'll definitely try to understand it (coz I don't know Hebrew) and compare with other scripture in the bible.
-Thanks

[pierreSimons]

Hi, I think I can understand psalm 104 more now.
Look at psalm 104 v 9
9Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

Does that not comply with Genesis 9 v11And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

Basically, psalm 104v9 might be talking about what God promised in Genesis 9 v11 and other verses in Genesis that
the waters of the earth will never cover the earth again and destroy man as was done in the flood of Noah.
Do those verses seem to match up?

[Ta-An]

ח יַעֲלוּ הָרִים, יֵרְדוּ בְקָעוֹת-- אֶל-מְקוֹם, זֶה יָסַדְתָּ לָהֶם. 8 The mountains rose, the valleys sank down--unto the place which Thou hadst founded for them;

Best bet would be to ask Fenris for a better translation..... he uses Artscroll, and excellent translation of the Hebrew.

[Sirus]

Hi, I think I can understand psalm 104 more now.
Look at psalm 104 v 9
9Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

Does that not comply with Genesis 9 v11And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

Basically, psalm 104v9 might be talking about what God promised in Genesis 9 v11 and other verses in Genesis that
the waters of the earth will never cover the earth again and destroy man as was done in the flood of Noah.
Do those verses seem to match up?

Yes, this is correct.

[Sirus]

One only need to let the passage speak for itself. It's about waters moving not mountains and valleys moving, making the ESV wrong.

He covered the foundations of the earth with water so deep the water was above the mountains. With the deep -God opened the fountains of the deep at the flood of Noah.

Psa 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Psa 104:6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.

The waters subsided at His command.

Psa 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.

Again, the waters go up and down.

Psa 104:8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.

He will not flood the earth again.

Psa 104:9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.
Psa 104:10 He sendeth the springs into the valleys, which run among the hills.
Psa 104:11 They give drink to every beast of the field: the wild asses quench their thirst.

By them -by the water - springs

Psa 104:12 By them shall the fowls of the heaven have their habitation, which sing among the branches.
Psa 104:13 He watereth the hills from his chambers: the earth is satisfied with the fruit of thy works.

[BadDog]

Hi, I think I can understand psalm 104 more now.
Look at psalm 104 v 9
9Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

Does that not comply with Genesis 9 v11And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

Basically, psalm 104v9 might be talking about what God promised in Genesis 9 v11 and other verses in Genesis that
the waters of the earth will never cover the earth again and destroy man as was done in the flood of Noah.
Do those verses seem to match up?

pierreSimons,

Could be. But I view it as the Lord simply saying that God set the boundaries for the shores - which delineated the continents. If so, it's still referring to Genesis 1 and the creation - day 2 and the creation of the continents. I had another portion in that post - I had edited it - but apparently it was lost. It was there yesterday. I'll add it again today and hopefully it'll survive:

Hebrew text:
as the mountains 2Myrh <2022> rose up, 1wley <5927> and the valleys 4tweqb <1237> went down–3wdry <3381> to 5la <413> the place 6Mwqm <4725> you 7hz <2088> appointed 8tdoy <3245> for them.

The italicized text is supplied in the translation to facilitate the reading. The bold text is what is actually there in the Hebrew text. (Got this from www/Bible.org). Now both Hebrew and Greek deal with articles much differently than in English, but it should be clear that much speculation is required, and none of the translators of any of those translations are just messing up . But the KJV handling of vs. 8 doesn't seem as natural, to me.

"Mountains up valleys down to place appointed them."

Take care.

BD

[Servant89]

Hi, I need help regarding Psalm 104 v8 found in KJV and ESV version of Bible.
ESV
8The mountains rose, the valleys sank down
to the place that you cappointed for them.
KJV
8They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.

Does anyone know which one is the proper translation?
I know that the translation can have errors although the original is correct.
-Thanks for reply

**I think I might've posted this twice because first time I didn't see it in sub-forum , so it wasn't intentional.

I have a Jewish Bible (only OT) and that verse was translated identical to what the KJV states. The Jews are fanatical about faithful translations.

Shalom

[scourge39]

Psalm 104 is retelling the creation account, not the flood account. Most specifically, it's explaining how God set the boundaries between water and land in Genesis 1.

The KJV translators were emphasizing God's control over the waters while the ESV translators emphasize God's creation of mountains and valleys. Psalm 105:5-9 is definitely emphasizing both God's creation of land masses as well as his control over the waters.

The KJV merely retains the word for word Hebrew syntax. If we reverse them, the KJV would read: The mountains go up; the valleys go down unto the place which thou hast founded for them.

The ESV translators are taking the 'they' found in the original Hebrew as referring to the mountains & valleys rather than to the waters. The KJV translators understood the 'they' in the Hebrew as referring to the waters in verse 6. Both are acceptable translations that complement each other nicely because we know that God set boundaries for the waters and established the mountains and the valleys as well. The pronoun CAN legitimately refer EITHER to the waters OR to the mountains and valleys depending on whether one sees it as referring solely to the mountains and valleys of verse 8 or as a continuation of the discussion regarding the waters in verses 6 and 7 . It's not always easy to determine to what or whom pronouns refer in Biblical Hebrew. The KJV retains the pronoun 'they' and assumes it refers to the waters. The ESV assumes that 'they' refers to the mountains and valleys, hence its translation about the mountains going up and the valleys going down. The ESV & other modern translations render the Hebrew as they do because most modern Hebrew Grammars teach that pronouns refer to the closest noun in a given sentence. In this case, assuming that rule to be true, the 'they' in verse 8 would be interpreted as a reference to the mountains and the valleys rather than to the waters mentioned in the previous 2 verses. I hope this settles the issue for those who prefer either the KJV or the ESV; BOTH are correct, legitimate renderings of the Hebrew. This proves once again that no English translation is perfect and without variation in its interpretation (and yes, how one translates this particular verse is a matter of interpretation, NOT translation). Both the KJV & ESV translators were faced with the same choices when translating verses like this. Neither one is necessarily 'right' or 'wrong' according to the rules of Hebrew grammar.

[divaD]

Psalm 104 is retelling the creation account, not the flood account. Most specifically, it's explaining how God set the boundaries between water and land in Genesis 1.

The KJV translators were emphasizing God's control over the waters while the ESV translators emphasize God's creation of mountains and valleys. Psalm 105:5-9 is definitely emphasizing God's creation of land masses, not his control over the waters.

The KJV merely retains the word for word Hebrew syntax. If we reverse them, the KJV would read: The mountains go up; the valleys go down unto the place which thou hast founded for them.

The ESV translators are taking the 'they' found in the original Hebrew as referring to the mountains & valleys rather than to the waters. The KJV translators understood the 'they' in the Hebrew as referring to the waters in verse 6. Both are acceptable translations that complement each other nicely because we know that God set boundaries for the waters and established the mountains and the valleys as well. The pronoun CAN legitimately refer EITHER to the waters OR to the mountains and valleys depending on whether one sees it as referring solely to the mountains and valleys of verse 8 or as a continuation of the discussion regarding the waters in verses 6 and 7 . It's not always easy to determine to what or whom pronouns refer in Biblical Hebrew. The KJV retains the pronoun 'they' and assumes it refers to the waters. The ESV assumes that 'they' refers to the mountains and valleys, hence its translation about the mountains going up and the valleys going down.

I agree 100%. Noah's flood can't be found in the context in my opin. I know it's only my opin and that I haven't proven anything, but just looking at the surrounding context, it's hard to picture life that was getting ready to be destroyed. Instead, I see life that is just beginning.