Honeymoon prayer

[Servant89]

ON post # 2 I said: << I called my atheist friend right away and I told him what had just happened with unbelievable excitement in my words. I asked him: Do you remember what I asked you four days ago, about the tree? He said: Yeees? And I responded with: “It happened here!” I told him every single detail (many things not included in this post). >>

I will share something not included in that post that is worth gold. After I screamed "AWESOME!" I went inside the house and a spirit of unbelief came over me. I convinced myself (after yelling AWESOME!) that the tree got hit with lighting by coincidence, that it was not God. I said to myself after I entered the house:

"That could not have been God. God does not talk to people like me. I watched a pornographic film two weeks ago. I am a sinner, one of the worst ones in church. I am not Isaiah or Jeremiah. This honor of God revealing himself like this is not for people like me. I do not deserve this."

When I said that last part to myself. God showed up again. He said to me right then, "You are right, you do not deserve this. That is why it is called GRACE." When I heard that word GRACE... It felt like there was a swimming pool of love hovering over me and the Lord just opened up the floor and let that love fall on me. I lost it. I started crying like a baby and like a crazy person, I bowed my head, I was vertical from the feet to my waist, but I was horizontal from my waist to my head, both my hands where stretch and up and while crying like a baby, I started yelling while crying in that position and walking back and forth, yelling: "YOU ARE TO MUCH LORD, YOU ARE TOO MUCH, YOU ARE TOO MUCH LORD, YOU ARE TOO MUCH!!!". I kept crying and yelling that again and again for about 4 minutes.

Then, after I regained my composture, I got on the phone to call my atheist friend. He was the first person I baptized in water.

Shalom

[Servant89]

After reading the Bible several times I started making connections that I had not seen before. One of the best ones is the fact that Israel was supposed to select their King, their Messiah on Palm Sunday, the 10th day of the first month. God announced the exact day that Messiah was going to arrive as king in Dan 9:25 (relative to Neh 2). That is why Jesus said he needed a donkey, to fulfill Zec 9:9. That is also why Jesus did not want to be king earlier than that day (see John 6:15).

But I also noticed that the 10th day of the first month is also the day of selecting the passover Lamb (Exo 12:3).

The day we select Jesus as our King, our Messiah and we also select him as our passover lamb that takes away our sins, that is the day of salvation, the day we enter the promised land. It just so happens that is also the 10th day of the first month. Israel crossed the Jordan river to enter the promised land on that day. They entered and came out of the waters of the Jordan river on that day. It is written:

Josh 4:19 And the people came up out of Jordan on the tenth day of the first month, and encamped in Gilgal, in the east border of Jericho.

I noticed that after reading the Bible several times. Our God is elegant and cool. He has style.

Shalom

[Servant89]

I was part of the worship team. I felt the Lord was telling me to go to another church. But I was not sure, I wanted a confirmation. I asked the Lord directly to tell me if I should go. I waited... but I got no answer. I asked again, "Should I go". And no answer. Then the following Sunday, a lady stood up to give a word from the Lord (not by reading the Bible, by HS inspiration) but the Pastor told her to sit down and not give the word. Right there, the Lord told me, the word that she has is for me and me alone, not for anyone else in the church. I believed the word dealt with my question I had been asking that week, "Should I go?". So after church I asked her: What was the word the Lord told you to say? And she said: "Let my people go." I had peace. And I thanked the Lord. We left soon after.

Shalom

[saved11]

Servant89, I know that you are a man of God.

I've read some of your other posts in other threads and appreciate your understanding of the scripture. If you don't mind, can I ask a question with regards to scripture.

It is Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather YOUR CHILDREN together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. How would you interpret the words "YOUR CHILDREN". Recently I heard a pastor explained it as the pharisees etc did not want the 'common people' ie YOUR CHILDREN (in the verse) to be saved. (I can't remember the exact words he used, but the gist is something like that). I've never heard it explain like that before but if its true, it will help clear up a major area for me with regards to a doctrine.

As I do not want this to derail from your wonderful thread and if you feel its inappropriate pls feel free to ask the moderator to delete it. But if you are willing, I really appreciate how you would interpret this verse (either through pm or this thread). Thank you.

[Servant89]

It is Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather YOUR CHILDREN together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. How would you interpret the words "YOUR CHILDREN". Recently I heard a pastor explained it as the pharisees etc did not want the 'common people' ie YOUR CHILDREN (in the verse) to be saved. (I can't remember the exact words he used, but the gist is something like that). I've never heard it explain like that before but if its true, it will help clear up a major area for me with regards to a doctrine.

It will help to know what major area of doctrine you want to clear up. There is nothing in the Bible stating the Pharisees did not want the common people to be saved. They did not get along with sinners that were out of their closets, because they judged based on what their eyes saw and what their ears heard (which is not recommended to do, because none of us can read minds). But to imply they meant anyone that was common is a stretch. The system of sacrifices for sins, found in Lev chapters 4 and 5, have offerings for the priest, the leaders of Israel and the common people, so the Pharisees knew God had the common people in his plan, in his covenant. Additionally, God stated that his covenant is not only with the 12 tribes of Israel, but also with their servants that carried wood and water for the Israelites (See Deu 29:10-13). Even the Gibeonites which were on God’s list for destruction, and later became carriers of wood and water (see Joshua 9), even they became part of the people of God (yes, they got saved by faith).

On the other hand, there are plenty of Scriptures where God refers to his elect as Israel's children, the children of Judah, Jerusalem, etc., even the seed of Jacob.

Mat 11:25 states that God loves to reveal his word to the uneducated and hide it from the educated (paraphrased). Also...

1 Cor 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

Doctrine should be based on what is written in the Bible (Isa 8:20; Deu 29:29), not on extrabiblical records of history. We need to let the Bible interpret the Bible (Mat 12:1-6). Your question is quite welcome.

Shalom

[Servant89]

This reminds me of another prayer. I did not know who the restrainer of 2Thes 2 was even though the Bible states that we know who he is.

2The 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

So, because the word says that we know who he is, it bothered me that I did not know who he was. So, I asked the Lord. Who is this one that withholds Satan? And I waited. That time I waited about 2 minutes and nothing. I got impatient and went to take a shower. While shampooing my hair, I got in one second about 2 minutes of explanation with an amazing answer from the Bible which clearly fits everything else I see in Scripture. There are three Scriptures stating who takes care of Satan PERSONALLY, MANY A MANO. What was revealed to me were verses from the Bible... not special revelation, that is what convinced me. The Bible interprets the Bible.

I am keeping it to myself because most people will disagree with my position. The point of this post in particular is not doctrine, the point of this post is that when we believe God answers questions about his word, he will show up and answer them.

Shalom

[saved11]

It will help to know what major area of doctrine you want to clear up. There is nothing in the Bible stating the Pharisees did not want the common people to be saved. They did not get along with sinners that were out of their closets, because they judged based on what their eyes saw and what their ears heard (which is not recommended to do, because none of us can read minds). But to imply they meant anyone that was common is a stretch. The system of sacrifices for sins, found in Lev chapters 4 and 5, have offerings for the priest, the leaders of Israel and the common people, so the Pharisees knew God had the common people in his plan, in his covenant. Additionally, God stated that his covenant is not only with the 12 tribes of Israel, but also with their servants that carried wood and water for the Israelites (See Deu 29:10-13). Even the Gibeonites which were on God’s list for destruction, and later became carriers of wood and water (see Joshua 9), even they became part of the people of God (yes, they got saved by faith).

On the other hand, there are plenty of Scriptures where God refers to his elect as Israel's children, the children of Judah, Jerusalem, etc., even the seed of Jacob.

Mat 11:25 states that God loves to reveal his word to the uneducated and hide it from the educated (paraphrased). Also...

1 Cor 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

Doctrine should be based on what is written in the Bible (Isa 8:20; Deu 29:29), not on extrabiblical records of history. We need to let the Bible interpret the Bible (Mat 12:1-6). Your question is quite welcome.

Shalom

I was hoping to avoid the asking of what major doctrine it is because the doctrines and the in-between of these doctrines are always hotly contested everywhere(Calvinism vs Arminianism) and I'm afraid that those who disagree/agree will start showing up in this thread and derail the purpose of this thread.

My purpose was just to find the answer for Matthew 23:37 only and not to delve into these 2 doctrines. I've read some bible study guides such as Matthew Henry and John MacArthur (both Calvinists) and all the while I've always taken it to mean Jesus was talking about the inhabitants in Jerusalem.

However, I got to listen to some sermons from a pastor that I felt was very learned, had a good handle on Godly things and he did help me understand certain things. I really can't remember the exact words he used
and that's why I put 'common people' in ' '. (He may not have used the words 'common people', I can't remember).

The gist (hopefully I can explain properly) is that the Pharisees/teaches of the law were preventing the people in Jerusalem from coming to Christ through their wrong teachings/actions etc. The passage Matthew 23 dealt with the Pharisees etc who were hypocrites and trying to put a yoke on the people/wrongly leading the people etc. That's why to me his explanation of Matthew 23:37 and the other verses in Matthew 23 are so in line with each other.

Hmm..I guess I'm really having trouble explaining it. Maybe you can omit my poor attempt at explaining it and give your version instead of Matthew 23:37. Thanks.

PS: the reason for me asking Matthew 23:37 is because I do believe that God choses His elect as its clearly stated in the bible. Many will accept this only if preface by the thinking that God gives us the ability to choose/believe Him which then He will save us. After all, to them God is a fair God and will not punish us if we aren't given the ability to choose Him. They often use Matthew 23:37 as 1 of their supporting point. I have my own thoughts on this such as how we view fair/righteous may be different than how God views it for example and that's why Matthew 23:37 is such a stumbling block for so many.

[Servant89]

The gist (hopefully I can explain properly) is that the Pharisees/teaches of the law were preventing the people in Jerusalem from coming to Christ through their wrong teachings/actions etc.

Yes they did. Lk 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

PS: the reason for me asking Matthew 23:37 is because I do believe that God choses His elect as its clearly stated in the bible.

Yes, that is clearly stated in the Bible. It is written: Jn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

But the whole Bible is true, all of it. Even if God tells you that you are going to hell and shows you the book of life and your name is not in there, you can get in heaven, yes we can, even in that situation. The Gibeonites got in and they were on God's list of people that should be destroyed (Jos 9), Niniveh is another example where God swallowed up his word after he saw their works of repentance.

Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Mercy rejoices over judgment. He is slow to anger, but fast to forgive. I love him.
Shalom

[Servant89]

I lost my new sun glasses in the grass of a baseball park (around right field). The grass was high, about 5 inches high. It was getting dark when I started looking for them. I looked around 20 minutes and I gave up when it got real dark, and I mean real dark. I did not find them. Then I thought about praying to God to help me find them and then I said: "For sun glasses? Should I pray about that?" I thougth about it some more... "Ahhh, I will pray, it does not hurt to pray." And I did. It was a short prayer and after I prayed, I opened my eyes and I started looking. I found them without moving my feet, they were 18 inches away from my feet, right in front of me. I did not pick them up for 2 minutes. I was thanking the Lord, but I was not only thanking him for the glasses, I was mostly thanking the Lord for listening to my prayer.

Shalom

[saved11]

I'm sorry Servant89, but my question is :
Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather YOUR CHILDREN together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but YOU were not willing


1) how would you interpret Matthew 23:37 especially the words 'YOUR CHILDREN'.
2) Would you include everybody including the Pharisees in the words 'your children'?
3) Would you include both the elect and non-elect in the words 'your children' or just the elect.

4) Who do you think the word 'YOU' refers to in '....but YOU were not willing'.
5) Is YOU only the Pharisees/teachers of the law or does it include both the elect and non-elect?
6) Does 'You' exclude the people that would ultimately be saved ie the elect

Hopefully now my question is clearer. Thanks.

[Servant89]

1) how would you interpret Matthew 23:37 especially the words 'YOUR CHILDREN'.

The descendants of Jacob. God’s promises were to his seed, the seed of Jacob. God is not an acceptor of persons. He wants all to be saved.

2) Would you include everybody including the Pharisees in the words 'your children'?

Yes.

3) Would you include both the elect and non-elect in the words 'your children' or just the elect.

I would include both, he wants to save all.

4) Who do you think the word 'YOU' refers to in '....but YOU were not willing'.

I believe it includes all the children of Israel living in Jerusalem and probably Israel, it includes all. Israel as a nation did not track the day and hour of arrival of Messiah. That was given to them in Dan 9:25. God said there, know therefore and understand … His people are destroyed for lack of knowledge and that is why they got destroyed (Luk 19:36-44).

5) Is YOU only the Pharisees/teachers of the law or does it include both the elect and non-elect?

Both elect and non-elect. The fall of Jerusalem applied to the whole nation which disappeared soon after.

6) Does 'You' exclude the people that would ultimately be saved ie the elect

I do not think so, the subject here is not salvation, it is that Israel was given an opportunity and they, as a nation blew it. That does not mean that all Jews go to hell. It means that God is now looking at Gentiles for his elect, to join those Jews (like Abraham, David, Moses, Daniel, John the Baptist, etc.).

P.S. I am a man and I change my theology often, as I learn. So, do not trust me, trust God and make sure your faith fits the word of God.

Shalom

[saved11]

Thank you for your explanation. I have to admit reading your answers have raised even more questions. Its always nice to be able to resolve question marks that you have with regards to bible verses--the human mind does not like these unresolved issues. However, guess I will take a rest for now. Perhaps when its the right timing, God will give me further insight.

It is rare to find someone that will try to understand scriptures without trying to inject their own views/thoughts into it. I'm sure that all of us do inject our own thoughts/views--we just differ in our extent. I find that you try not to do so more than many others. That's 1 of the main reason that I ask you the question. Only when we are willing to understand scriptures in this way, then will we more likely have the right answer as we allow God to guide us. Although I am more inclined towards Calvinism as there are a lot of truths in it such as perseverance of the saints (ie salvation cannot be lost/rejected) and God doing the choosing, there are verses etc that do bother me, but nowhere strong enough as to overturn the basic premises as those 'troubling/contrary verses' are less strong and can be 'more easily explained away based on the verses themselves' whereas many of those supporting Calvinism on perseverance of the saints and God choosing His people (without putting a condition that we are the ones that choose Him first), I cannot find any such loopholes.

Thank you also for your advise on trusting God, not you and making sure that my faith fits the word of God. It's ok. I don't trust any man above the bible. I do however, follow more closely/see sermons etc on those that I feel are real Christians and their teachings are in line with the bible. When I am in doubt/do not agree with some parts of their teaching, I put it in KIV to dwell later on when the time is right or research further. Every man is fallible no matter how much they love and follow God.

The descendants of Jacob. God’s promises were to his seed, the seed of Jacob. God is not an acceptor of persons. He wants all to be saved.



Yes.


I would include both, he wants to save all.


I believe it includes all the children of Israel living in Jerusalem and probably Israel, it includes all. Israel as a nation did not track the day and hour of arrival of Messiah. That was given to them in Dan 9:25. God said there, know therefore and understand … His people are destroyed for lack of knowledge and that is why they got destroyed (Luk 19:36-44).



Both elect and non-elect. The fall of Jerusalem applied to the whole nation which disappeared soon after.


I do not think so, the subject here is not salvation, it is that Israel was given an opportunity and they, as a nation blew it. That does not mean that all Jews go to hell. It means that God is now looking at Gentiles for his elect, to join those Jews (like Abraham, David, Moses, Daniel, John the Baptist, etc.).

P.S. I am a man and I change my theology often, as I learn. So, do not trust me, trust God and make sure your faith fits the word of God.

Shalom

[Servant89]

Thank you for your explanation. I have to admit reading your answers have raised even more questions. Its always nice to be able to resolve question marks that you have with regards to bible verses--the human mind does not like these unresolved issues. However, guess I will take a rest for now. Perhaps when its the right timing, God will give me further insight.

It is rare to find someone that will try to understand scriptures without trying to inject their own views/thoughts into it. I'm sure that all of us do inject our own thoughts/views--we just differ in our extent. I find that you try not to do so more than many others. That's 1 of the main reason that I ask you the question. Only when we are willing to understand scriptures in this way, then will we more likely have the right answer as we allow God to guide us. Although I am more inclined towards Calvinism as there are a lot of truths in it such as perseverance of the saints (ie salvation cannot be lost/rejected) and God doing the choosing, there are verses etc that do bother me, but nowhere strong enough as to overturn the basic premises as those 'troubling/contrary verses' are less strong and can be 'more easily explained away based on the verses themselves' whereas many of those supporting Calvinism on perseverance of the saints and God choosing His people (without putting a condition that we are the ones that choose Him first), I cannot find any such loopholes.

Thank you also for your advise on trusting God, not you and making sure that my faith fits the word of God. It's ok. I don't trust any man above the bible. I do however, follow more closely/see sermons etc on those that I feel are real Christians and their teachings are in line with the bible. When I am in doubt/do not agree with some parts of their teaching, I put it in KIV to dwell later on when the time is right or research further. Every man is fallible no matter how much they love and follow God.

I did an exhaustive study on that subject. I believe in eternal security... The Bible way...

2 Pet 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Shalom

[saved11]

I did an exhaustive study on that subject. I believe in eternal security... The Bible way...

2 Pet 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Shalom

I believe in eternal security ie perseverance of the saints. I came to God (believe Christianity was more real than the other religions) by putting myself as a child and how a child would relate to his/her father and vice versa plus with some very good sermons. I try to read scriptures without injecting my own views except for putting myself as a child on passages that I think that's the best method to understand. (after all God did mention something like this--thinking/coming to him as a child. The verse eludes me at the moment).

As a child trusts his father implicitly when his father asks him to jump and that he will catch him, so I try to put my trust in him. If I don't, then I would not be brave enough to do the difficult things that He asked me to do, as I would be afraid that I may falter and turn back either in fear/pain/anger when the going gets unbearable. Plus, I would tend to play on the safe side and not do anything that would cause great pain etc (like a lukewarm Christian so that one can say one did not turn back from one's faith). And thus, not only would I be putting my trust in my ability to keep myself rather than God's ability to do so, I would also be doing things up to the point that I think that I can cope/handle--then there would be no trusting/relying on God's strength then which is actually what God wants (relying on His strength--when we are weak, then He is strong). There are many verses that support this but I think 1 of the best to support the eternal security and God choosing us is this :

Hebrews 12:2
Let us fix our eyes on JESUS, THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF OUR FAITH, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

[Servant89]

I came to God (believe Christianity was more real than the other religions) by putting myself as a child and how a child would relate to his/her father and vice versa plus with some very good sermons.

Christianity is not more real than the other religions. That is like saying that God is more God than Servant89. In the God Olympics he is the first and the last, and that means there is no competition. He is God alone, and I am not. Likewise, the Judeo-Christian faith is the only faith that comes with evidence that the Creator himself is its author. It is the only one that is real. All others are false. Christianity is the truth. All other religions are false. Mormons believe they have the true religion based on a warm and fuzzy feeling inside and their relationship with God. We can tell which religion is the truth because it is the one that comes with supernatural evidence (prophecy fulfilled and miracles) that it is not from man. If you pass Islam/Koran through that filter or Buddism, they come out getting a zero in the test.

Concerning the point of hearing good sermons… As we grow in Christ, we need to value the word of God (Rom 3:4) more and more and follow its advise: “Let God be true and every man a liar.” As such, let us not be impressed with man at all and let us filter what man tells us with his word, like the Bereans (Acts 17:11), which were not so impressed with the words or miracles of Paul until they verified that his sermon was in line with Scripture. We need to be like that.

To gain God’s favor, I embarrass myself sharing how I have a problem with pornography, how I failed to obey God and how I stink. If I want God’s power in my life, I need to boast in my infirmities (2Cor 12:9-10) to make sure I send the message to the world that I am not here to impress people. I cannot be God’s servant if I go around trying to impress people (Gal 1:10).

Shalom